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2019 E450 2350 Rough Ride

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RJW365

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2019 E450 2350 Rough Ride
« on: July 26, 2019, 03:20:48 pm »
HI everyone, so there are many nice features about the PC 2350 but the E450 chassis change is not what we expected.  Our previous PC was 2018 2100 E350 and the ride (related to bumps in the road) was much better.  I understand the E450 is build to be tougher but did not expect the ride to change this much.  The front end is terrible when you go over the slightest crack or bump in the road. Everything in the RV bangs/slams and startles you you each time you go over a bump.  This issue is causing an unpleasant driving experience. The steering is great and have a the Safety Plus stabilizer bar.  Smooth road the ride is great.  Even with Air Ride installed in the rear at 90 lbs, the RV ride is not good over any type of bump.  My budget does not afford liquid sprigs and would hope that is not the only solution.  Does anyone else have an E450 with similar problems?  Any recommendations? I read online that better shocks will not help?  I called Ford directly and did not get very far; they suggested I speak with the manufacturer.. figures.
Thanks!
Rob in Maryland


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Pappy T

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Re: 2019 E450 2350 Rough Ride
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2019, 04:16:52 pm »
Hi Rob , although I/we don't have a Phoenix , we have a winnie Trend that maxes out around 10,000# . It rode like a lumber wagon we first got it ! Handled nice and good road manners and mileage is good. I put air bags on rear and day night difference along with supersprings on front coils ..even better, don't get blown around in wind or being passed and minimal slamming . As for the airbags, that has been being discussed as "stiffening or hardening " the ride , many found out that adjusting pressure mostly cured the hard ride . I started out around 75-80# and over several days toned it down to around 45-55#  for max control and comfort, not Cadilac but much more tolerable .    I still get the bang over risers in the road but much less so .The front supersprings took most of the bang out too and less rolling too. Just my .02 cents and hope you get it dialed in to a pleasurable level ! Like insurance , you'll get it where you want it and almost never get a rough road again !!

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Joseph

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Re: 2019 E450 2350 Rough Ride
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2019, 06:04:20 pm »
Iím in a 2552 model year 2011 E450. Mine rides just like you describe. I installed the Koni shocks that are supposed to fix that jarring ride on bumps such as bridge joints etc. donít waste your money on Koni, they did nothing to help the ride. Iíve been in contact with Koni and they CLAIM this is the first they have heard of this. Anyway Iím starting the warranty process foe replacements. If it turns out mine are in fact bad and the new ones help Iíll report it but I donít have my hopes very high.   I wonít spend thousands on liquid springs either and have no idea what the fix is.   

We just spent three months crossing 11 states and ever one has their share of teeth rattling roads.

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RJW365

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Re: 2019 E450 2350 Rough Ride
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2019, 06:46:31 pm »
Hi Rob , although I/we don't have a Phoenix , we have a winnie Trend that maxes out around 10,000# . It rode like a lumber wagon we first got it ! Handled nice and good road manners and mileage is good. I put air bags on rear and day night difference along with supersprings on front coils ..even better, don't get blown around in wind or being passed and minimal slamming . As for the airbags, that has been being discussed as "stiffening or hardening " the ride , many found out that adjusting pressure mostly cured the hard ride . I started out around 75-80# and over several days toned it down to around 45-55#  for max control and comfort, not Cadilac but much more tolerable .    I still get the bang over risers in the road but much less so .The front supersprings took most of the bang out too and less rolling too. Just my .02 cents and hope you get it dialed in to a pleasurable level ! Like insurance , you'll get it where you want it and almost never get a rough road again !!

Thanks for comments, very helpful.  The rear heavy duty (Air Ride) air bags will not support the 15k lb weight of the rear until 90 lbs is added.  The max is 100 so unfortunately not much play there.  I will keep the post updated as we continue our discovery.  Thanks again for comments and safe travels!

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RJW365

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Re: 2019 E450 2350 Rough Ride
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2019, 06:50:52 pm »
Iím in a 2552 model year 2011 E450. Mine rides just like you describe. I installed the Koni shocks that are supposed to fix that jarring ride on bumps such as bridge joints etc. donít waste your money on Koni, they did nothing to help the ride. Iíve been in contact with Koni and they CLAIM this is the first they have heard of this. Anyway Iím starting the warranty process foe replacements. If it turns out mine are in fact bad and the new ones help Iíll report it but I donít have my hopes very high.   I wonít spend thousands on liquid springs either and have no idea what the fix is.   

We just spent three months crossing 11 states and ever one has their share of teeth rattling roads.

HI, Thanks for your reply and comments.  Do you have the new Koni FSD or older version?  Here is the link we were reviewing as a possible improvement http://www.koni-na.com/en-US/NorthAmerica/Products/Motorhome/FSD/
I will keep this post updated on our hopeful progress.
Thanks and safe travels!

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biglegmax

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Re: 2019 E450 2350 Rough Ride
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2019, 08:14:05 pm »
I have a 2350/450 too. Rear air bags also. I figured the ride would be rough, and not great steering with the 4x4 option,but it sucks like you mention. I was hoping the air bags would help the 2350 sag, but they really did not. I'm pulling them off, and taking it to a custom truck spring builder to have them add and re-arc as needed to address the sag issue. Not sure what to do with the front end, but I think once the rear sag is gone, things will get better.
This might seem too simple but play with your tire air pressure some, its not the cure, but it helps. Summer heat makes pressures high, and the higher it gets the rougher the ride.
Doug

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Joseph

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Re: 2019 E450 2350 Rough Ride
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2019, 09:49:26 pm »
The koni shocks I installed were the FSD.   No help at all.

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donc13

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Re: 2019 E450 2350 Rough Ride
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2019, 10:06:38 pm »
Hi Rob , although I/we don't have a Phoenix , we have a winnie Trend that maxes out around 10,000# . It rode like a lumber wagon we first got it ! Handled nice and good road manners and mileage is good. I put air bags on rear and day night difference along with supersprings on front coils ..even better, don't get blown around in wind or being passed and minimal slamming . As for the airbags, that has been being discussed as "stiffening or hardening " the ride , many found out that adjusting pressure mostly cured the hard ride . I started out around 75-80# and over several days toned it down to around 45-55#  for max control and comfort, not Cadilac but much more tolerable .    I still get the bang over risers in the road but much less so .The front supersprings took most of the bang out too and less rolling too. Just my .02 cents and hope you get it dialed in to a pleasurable level ! Like insurance , you'll get it where you want it and almost never get a rough road again !!

Thanks for comments, very helpful.  The rear heavy duty (Air Ride) air bags will not support the 15k lb weight of the rear until 90 lbs is added.  The max is 100 so unfortunately not much play there.  I will keep the post updated as we continue our discovery.  Thanks again for comments and safe travels!

15,000 lbs on the rear!   The entire vehicle is only rated 14,500 GVWR!   

As to the front tires, how much (cold) air pressure do put in them?  I keep the front tires of my 2015,model 2551 at 75# while the rear are all set at 80#

Certainly, it's not a squishy ride... After all, it is a truck but nothing like you are describing.
---
Don and Patti

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CalCruiser

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Re: 2019 E450 2350 Rough Ride
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2019, 11:56:30 pm »
RJW -  where did you get that 15k weight number? Your GVWR is 14.5k, but your 2350 is only ~ 11k with 2 people and enough provisions for a week.
I run 40 psi in the Firestone ride-rite air springs on my E350 with a stout Hellwig  rear sway bar. Any greater psi results in  a harsher ride and increased  body roll on twisty  roads.

If (??) the E450 tire placard on your 2350 specifies 80psi for the back tires, try running 60 psi instead,  which is what the tire placard on the E350 2350 specifies. To be clear, I am NOT suggesting that owners of the bigger E450-only PC models should deviate from their tire placard inflation specs for a softer ride.
Goin' where the wind goes...

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Ron Dittmer

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Re: 2019 E450 2350 Rough Ride
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2019, 12:13:50 am »
This is a topic dear to my heart, yet I have a 2007 E350 chassis, hoping to soften our front suspension by soon replacing our stock E350 front coil springs with E150 coil springs.

To you with an E450 2350, as you have determined, your chassis is far over-rated for the actual load it is carrying.  The source of your jarring condition is related to an extra stiff, extra capable front and rear suspension.  What I share next is what I feel will get you going in the right direction, and it should be a very affordable solution compared to all other options. 

Keep in-mind that I am not an authority on all this.

During your next RV trip, fully loaded with a tank full of gasoline, propane, fresh water (no waste water), whatever you typically mount on your rear hitch, all your stuff including clothing, supplies, cookware, food, bottled water, and also you in your typical seating positions inside the RV.........get your rig weighed at a truck stop with a truck weigh scale.  Weigh each axle independently as is common practice on those scales.  With the weight numbers, you can determine the difference between your actual weight on each axle, and compare those numbers with the capability of each axle.  I am NO EXPERT HERE so don't take my word as gospel, but I feel you want your actual load per axle to be 500-750 pounds less than the axle's capability.  If the gap is significantly more, your ride will be quite rough as you are experiencing today.

I did that exercise with our 2350.  Our front axle is extremely light with an actual load (worst case scenario) of 3260 pounds and a capability of 4600 pounds, a 1140 pound difference.  On our heaviest trip ever, our rear axle weighed 8220 pounds on the rear axle that is capable of 7800 pounds, a deficiency (over-load condition) of 420 pounds.  Since then we are more mindful of what we carry and where we place the weight.

In your case with model 2350 on an E450 chassis, you won't have a rear axle over-load condition, but rather a severe under-load condition like I have with my front axle.  As I previously mentioned, I will soon swap my stock E350 4600 pound front coil springs with lower-rated ones designed for an E150.  I strongly advise to learn from my results before taking any such action with your own 2350s.

Regarding your rear suspension, a truck suspension shop should be able to take the weight numbers you provide and determine how many rear leaf springs to remove to decrease the amount of load margin to get you to the 500-750 number.

In my case, I wish I could add one more leaf spring per rear corner to increase my rear axle capability and lift it up to rid our slight rear end sag.  I can't add any leaf springs because the extra height will prevent the rig from clearing our already tight garage door clearance.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2019, 12:17:40 am by Ron Dittmer »
Ron (& Irene) Dittmer

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Joseph

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Re: 2019 E450 2350 Rough Ride
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2019, 11:35:18 am »
Ron, Iíve tried the diff weight experiment on my 2552. It doesnít make the ride less jarring. 

Talking with Koni, they claim the designed the FSD specifically to correct this jarring ride.  Sadly in my case it was no help at all. Iíll go ahead with the warranty claim but Iíll be surprised and elated if it helps.

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RJW365

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Re: 2019 E450 2350 Rough Ride
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2019, 04:07:25 pm »
Hi Rob , although I/we don't have a Phoenix , we have a winnie Trend that maxes out around 10,000# . It rode like a lumber wagon we first got it ! Handled nice and good road manners and mileage is good. I put air bags on rear and day night difference along with supersprings on front coils ..even better, don't get blown around in wind or being passed and minimal slamming . As for the airbags, that has been being discussed as "stiffening or hardening " the ride , many found out that adjusting pressure mostly cured the hard ride . I started out around 75-80# and over several days toned it down to around 45-55#  for max control and comfort, not Cadilac but much more tolerable .    I still get the bang over risers in the road but much less so .The front supersprings took most of the bang out too and less rolling too. Just my .02 cents and hope you get it dialed in to a pleasurable level ! Like insurance , you'll get it where you want it and almost never get a rough road again !!

Thanks for comments, very helpful.  The rear heavy duty (Air Ride) air bags will not support the 15k lb weight of the rear until 90 lbs is added.  The max is 100 so unfortunately not much play there.  I will keep the post updated as we continue our discovery.  Thanks again for comments and safe travels!

15,000 lbs on the rear!   The entire vehicle is only rated 14,500 GVWR!   

As to the front tires, how much (cold) air pressure do put in them?  I keep the front tires of my 2015,model 2551 at 75# while the rear are all set at 80#

Certainly, it's not a squishy ride... After all, it is a truck but nothing like you are describing.

Sorry, yeah that was a typo and meant to state combined weight.  The front per the brochure specification is 5000lb front and 9600lb rear.  I was informed to use the tire pressure per the sticker which is 75 front and 80 rear (cold).  What I described is the ride is extremely hard with no give in the bumps even with Air Ride installed on the rear.  This is a very expensive RV not a meant to ride like a rough truck.  In my opinion.

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RJW365

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Re: 2019 E450 2350 Rough Ride
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2019, 04:13:11 pm »
I have a 2350/450 too. Rear air bags also. I figured the ride would be rough, and not great steering with the 4x4 option,but it sucks like you mention. I was hoping the air bags would help the 2350 sag, but they really did not. I'm pulling them off, and taking it to a custom truck spring builder to have them add and re-arc as needed to address the sag issue. Not sure what to do with the front end, but I think once the rear sag is gone, things will get better.
This might seem too simple but play with your tire air pressure some, its not the cure, but it helps. Summer heat makes pressures high, and the higher it gets the rougher the ride.
Doug

Thanks for the reply on this post. Tire pressure cold is kept at 75 front and 80 rear per sticker.  I have not played with decreasing since they already look a little round.  What pressure do you use on yours?  Also, Any chance you talked to PC about this experience; reason I asked is concerns of voiding the 1 year warranty and if they have had enough owners like us complaining about the hard ride issue that they would help with a solution.  Please keep me posted on any progress and I will do the same.  Thanks!

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RJW365

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Re: 2019 E450 2350 Rough Ride
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2019, 04:15:29 pm »
The koni shocks I installed were the FSD.   No help at all.

That stinks.. sorry to hear this news..

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RJW365

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Re: 2019 E450 2350 Rough Ride
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2019, 04:24:27 pm »
RJW -  where did you get that 15k weight number? Your GVWR is 14.5k, but your 2350 is only ~ 11k with 2 people and enough provisions for a week.
I run 40 psi in the Firestone ride-rite air springs on my E350 with a stout Hellwig  rear sway bar. Any greater psi results in  a harsher ride and increased  body roll on twisty  roads.

If (??) the E450 tire placard on your 2350 specifies 80psi for the back tires, try running 60 psi instead,  which is what the tire placard on the E350 2350 specifies. To be clear, I am NOT suggesting that owners of the bigger E450-only PC models should deviate from their tire placard inflation specs for a softer ride.

The 15k was combined weight front and back per the brochure.. I typed to quick on the earlier reply, sorry for the confusion.  Per the Air Ride, we also had a 2100 prior with the standard Air Ride bags (Bob at Elkhart Hitch) and yes 30 to 40 pounds was plenty and ride was great.  We now have a 2350 and E350 was not an option anymore so E450 was recommended and now that is all PC is using in production.  Since it was a E450 the Air Ride recommendation was the heavy duty bags that have a center block inside to prevent collapse.  This is why the pressure is 90lb because anything less will not inflate enough to keep the vehical weight of the inner blocks (per Elkhart Hitch).
Thanks for your feedback and support.