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Water tank issues

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echo11

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Water tank issues
« on: August 07, 2011, 09:48:55 pm »
Hi,
I am hoping to get advice concerning emptying and filling the water tank.  I have a 2011 2350PC.  The first time draining an almost full tank, with the low drain valve open and the faucets open, the water dribbled out.  How long should it take to empty the tank?  It took a little more than 3 hours.  Is that normal?  Is there something that can be done to speed it up? 
We also had a difficult time filling the tank.  It just kept backing up and not going into the tank.  We had to keep starting and stopping.  We used a regular water hose with nothing special on the end.  Is there a special nozzle that needs to be used?  Is there a trick to this?
We are really frustrated.  Any thoughts about filling and emtiying would be most appreciated!
Thanks-
Roni
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Water tank issues
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2011, 10:16:56 pm »
I think you have 3 possible culprits

- vent tube is kinked or blocked  (I suspect this is your most likely problem)
- filler tube is kinked
- plastic debris is blocking the drain port (common to many brands of motor homes)

Access to all is done by unscrewing the rear section of the bed platform

You can first perform a simple test.  Put 10 gallons or so in the tank.  Drain the tank, getting the dribble action.  Then remove the filler cap.  If it suddenly flows fast, you have a blocked or kinked vent tube.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 10:29:12 pm by ron.dittmer »
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echo11

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Re: Water tank issues
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2011, 10:29:34 pm »
Ron, 
I'll look under the bed tomorrow to see if I see any kinks.  I will also try uncapping the filler cap to see if it makes a difference.   
If there is plastic in the tank itself, is there any way to get that out?
Thanks for your help!
Roni
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lmichael

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Re: Water tank issues
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2011, 10:45:02 pm »
I have a 2010 2350, and experinced the same slow fill/drain you're having.  In mine, the access to the tubing is in the front non-screwed down section under the bed.  I found the vent hose was kinked (cut too short for the installation), so I replaced it.  It was also full of mold.  The filler hose had a bow half way in that I corrected with snap ties.  I also found plastic remnants in the drain outlet from the tank when I disconnected the drain hose.  I no longer have fill problems, but the drain is still very slow.  I blew compressed air up the drain valve once, and it did help for a while--but eventually returned to the slow drain.  With the fill problem fixed, I decided I could live with the slow drain.
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mciai2000

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Re: Water tank issues
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2011, 11:00:58 pm »
Hi:

I agree with Ron on all counts.  I also had a 2010 2350 with slow drain.  The drain pipe  is very small so I replaced mine with a bigger hose .   In the past I also used an air compressor when I was draining .. give it a try.

David
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lghjr

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Re: Water tank issues
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2011, 11:31:20 pm »
I have had this type of drain problem on a trailer and another motorhome and both cases were debris left in the tank from drilling for various fittings or drilling to put the sensors in.  Frustrating that the manufacturers can not afford a vacuum cleaner to clean up the potential problems for the customer.  I believe that drain hose on my PC is only 3/8", so it would not take much plastic drilling debris to slow the flow in the drain hose or the valve itself, and then you probably would not be able to close the valve again.

A sag in the fill hose will definitely cause the fill process to be very slow and could stop the fill entirely.  When removing the sag be sure to allow for contraction of the fill hose in the winter.
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TomHanlon

Re: Water tank issues
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2011, 07:42:52 am »
My drain is also very slow, takes hours and hours to drain. What I do is to pump the water into the sinks with the gray water tank open. It is much faster but I don't like running the pump that long. Then again if the pump dies, I can get a new better pump and slove another issue.

There is an attachment for the end of the hose that is a smaller diameterer clear tube which is about six inches long. I only see them in the RV stores every now and then, so they are hard to find sometimes.  You insert this into the water fill and you can turn on the water full force. Just stand back because when the tanks fills up the water it will come gushing out pass the hose. If you are to close you are going to get wet.  >(
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Water tank issues
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2011, 08:45:50 am »
I must have gotten lucky with mine as I can fill the tank with the hose full blast.  The drain valve also goes as fast as the diameter of the tube permits.  The water cooler style valve for the drain must be perfectly positioned for fast draining.  Any amount off-center, and it slows down a lot.

Interesting about the mold in the vent tube getting brought up.  We all need to be real good about bleaching our plumbing.  Especially with the hot & humid weather.

I've had my PC outside this summer while our college son is home for the summer, mudding and painting the inside of the garage, painting it white, for minimum wage as he could not find part time employment.  With the PC out all summer, inside the fridge, even with the fridge doors open a bit, a little mold formed on the aluminum fins, and little specs about the fridge interior.  It has me wondering what else is going on that I don't see.

I now have the PC parked close to the garage where it can be plugged in all the time.  I set the roof a/c to kick on when it gets real hot inside to remove moisture.  All windows and vents sealed tight.  All interior cabinet and bath doors and fridge are wide open too.  Dinette bench cushions placed to ventilate the bench storage.  It looks like the place is haunted.   :lol  I can once again smell the leather.   heartshower
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echo11

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Re: Water tank issues
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2011, 09:03:11 am »
Thanks for all the suggestions.  At least I know I am not the only one with these issues.

I went out this morning and removed the bottom panel under the bed.  I did not see any kinks in the lines.  The vent hose line is clear. with no visible mold.  The intake line is not see through.  Both hoses are almost level with no visible kinks.  They run side by side straight back from the intake area to the side of the tank.  They do dip down a little in the middle.  Maybe something is inside the intake line that I can't see.  Since I don't feel comfortable taking it off to look, I will bring it in to the RV repair place to check for me.  While I am there I will ask about suggestions for the sluggish drain.
I guess the good news is that nothing is leaking under there!

I am thinking of trying to use more water pressure.  Since it wasn't going it and was coming back out, I was using very little pressure hoping it would "slide" through.  Since the line doesn't tilt down to the tank, maybe more pressure is needed?

All your thoughts and suggestions are appreciated!  I will keep you updated on my progress.
Roni  

  
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 06:26:46 pm by echo11 »
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Water tank issues
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2011, 10:48:05 am »
If you have access to compressed air, as others mentioned, try to blow air into the vent tube and also into the drain tube.  If you notice an immediate improvement, that means you blew out an obstruction.  If it returns, it means the obstruction found it's way back.  It could even be a piece of plastic that never completely broke away when the hole was drilled.  It could be hanging inside the tank right at the hole.  It could be flopping around, immediately returning to obstruct the hole.

Such little irritations do occur with most motor homes, Phoenix Cruisers and all the other brands.  Once we get past them, we generally do fine.  Sometimes we will look at what went wrong and say......."Come on guys.  It's not hard to do this right."  That's the price for non-automation, "hand crafted" products.  Still, a lot comes down to engineering & design, manufacturing processes, training, inspecting, and every worker taking great pride in their work.  Phoenix USA does much better than most, but obviously not so good when it comes to the fresh water tank that many here have similar stories with it.
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billy

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Re: Water tank issues
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2011, 10:49:07 am »
Quote from: ron.dittmer on August 08, 2011, 08:45:50 am
I must have gotten lucky with mine as I can fill the tank with the hose full blast.  The drain valve also goes as fast as the diameter of the tube permits.  The water cooler style valve for the drain must be perfectly positioned for fast draining.  Any amount off-center, and it slows down a lot.


Me too      (cheer)
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gl1500

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Re: Water tank issues
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2011, 12:19:10 pm »
I guess the frustrating part of these issues, is that some of us are capable and willing to troubleshoot and repair most of these discrepancies.  But, on the other hand there are those that do not have that ability/capability.  I had a  water leak in the outside rear compartment and it took me several days to finally locate the area where the water was coming in, I thought.  Guess what, there were several areas around the frame that had voids in the sealant.  When you think you have it solved, only to find another leak source.  Had the same with two crank-out windows.  The dual pane seals had failed and became full of water.  Kermit sent me new ones and I installed them.  So, it is nice that those of us who can do these things can assist those that need a little help.  My hat is off to All providing this internet help through the PC forum and especially to Aimee for managing this valuable asset.
    Bob
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Water tank issues
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2011, 12:48:20 pm »
When it comes to owning a motor home, if you are not "handy", you are in big trouble because motor homes require a lot of hands-on attention.  Especially in the beginning when new, and then later after it has seen significant use.
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billy

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Re: Water tank issues
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2011, 05:41:00 pm »
Well I decided to chime in, I too had some "plastic" in one tank in my first trailer. IT WAS IN THE POOP TANK  >( >( >(
With a bit of luck I was able to get it out, please don't ask?
Yup, you're right Ron, if you're not handy, better be rich.   (cheer) (cheer)
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echo11

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Re: Water tank issues
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2011, 06:39:05 pm »
The continuing saga of the fresh water fill and drain-
We picked up a funnel with a flexible neck.  We thought maybe that would help to get a better angle to fill the tank.  We tried that first without touching the line.  Didn't help- the water came back out.  Then we tried holding the line more level- didn't make a difference.  We don't have access to compressed air.  I will call the RV fix-it place tomorrow.  Easy things we will try to fix.  When it involves water or electricity and we're not sure how to do it, we are smart enough to know to get help.  The RV place is expensive, but we try to watch and learn.  While we are there we will ask about checking the extremely slow drain.
We will let you know how it turns out!
Roni
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