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Phoenix Reduces Their Models

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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2021, 01:57:30 pm »
Our slide just went out for the third time in 3 years. The factory can't get us in until next year. We will live in our 2400 for 4 months this winter with no slide. That means no walk around sofa bed, wife will sleep kitty corner on partially extended sofa, I'll break down the dinette. That means we'll be making 2 beds every night, and carrying double bedding. We will lose our large living room which is one of the reasons we bought it. All we'll have is a narrow walkway to get from the front to the back. The walls to the slide will be inside the coach all the time giving us a claustrophobic feeling. We have 110,000 miles on the motorhome so selling it would mean a big loss. The PC is a beautiful motorhome with a beautiful interior but the good looks are deceiving. The service dept has treated me very
well but unfortunately they can't do miracles. For those of you who have the Liftco slide, you are lucky, they last a long time. I was told at the factory that they stopped offering non slide models, they can't get sofas that will fit.
Email me direct at dittmer.ron@gmail.com

Time to go to "Plan-B" before you leave home on that 4 month long outing.....making this your first stop.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2021, 02:00:13 pm by Ron Dittmer »
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Joseph

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Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2021, 02:05:50 pm »
Ron, ok so tens of thousands of units with slides, some whole side slides. I have yet to read where the roof couldnít support the weight of the ac units.  Weight of the slide on a 2552 loaded as an example is a non issue. We drag more crap along that we never use and are never close to max. Heck we pack so heavy I usually place a case or more of wine under the bathroom sink. I have a dinette so thatís a nine issue as well. I havenít had any leaks in 74,000+ miles and itís now 10 years old.

Now onto the price difference. You said itís 5 grand more.  I have no idea if the exact amount but we will use your example. Being the market calls for more units with than with out how much of that 5 grand do you think youíll lose when you sell? I donít know if itís possible to find but I wonder what the price difference would be on say 2 exact 2552 units with same mileage (say 50K) when one has a a slide and one does not. Which sells faster as well and for more? Just how much do you lose? And letís not forget if you bought the rig to save money on vacation you made a very bad decision to begin with.

And for Peteís sake they can flat bed 45í rigs if need be or simply disconnect the drive shaft and use a traditional tow.

I get it your anti slide but many of your reasons have minimal  validity.

« Last Edit: October 02, 2021, 02:14:42 pm by Joseph »

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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2021, 10:52:11 pm »
Hi Joseph,

If a vote was taken, I think slide outs would get 90% of the vote.  Their popularity is tremendous.

You make excellent points of which I can't argue.  I feel the way I do with my "structural" points of concern unsubstantiated.  I didn't mean to debate whether a slide out is good or bad.

I feel the way I do about slide outs in part because I personally hope to own our PC 35 to 40 years.  We had that in-mind when we ordered it back in 2007.  I can only imagine that the workings and sealing of a slide out so old will have significantly degraded and become problematic as many 25 to 30 year old slide outs have become today.

My other points that are non-structural in nature, is all a matter of trade-offs.  You give up some things to gain others.

Your point in having a dinette inside a slide out is noted.  Models 2351 and 2552 with a slide out can accommodate a dinette by sacrificing the pantry there.  Models 2350 and 2551 could have a dinette only without a slide out.

Models 2351 and 2552 without a slide out, without a pantry, but with a dinette, made for a very nice size dining table and more leg room for longer-legged people.  It also made a longer bed for a taller person.  That option of which is no longer offered, always intrigued me for the table size and leg room.  Me at 5'-11" fits fine sleeping on our 2350 dinette.

If I could have bought model 2351 back in 2007, I might have considered utilizing that extra wall space to double the size of the main closet having top-to-bottom shelves on one side.  We store our clothes in the over-bed cabinets which works but is naturally inconvenient.  We would fight over those closet shelves.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2021, 11:03:00 pm by Ron Dittmer »
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Joseph

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Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2021, 09:43:27 am »
Ron, I get it. My main point is for those that donít want a slide but want a quality unit like PC there is the option of simply not using the slide. And you are not likely to lose much if any on resale. There are rigs where you canít really use the rig unless the slide is out, fortunately PC has units where thatís not the case.

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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2021, 09:08:10 pm »
Ron, I get it. My main point is for those that donít want a slide but want a quality unit like PC there is the option of simply not using the slide. And you are not likely to lose much if any on resale. There are rigs where you canít really use the rig unless the slide is out, fortunately PC has units where thatís not the case.
Agreed!
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Phoenix USA RV Forum Team

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Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2021, 10:11:18 am »
Hi Everyone!
I have not been on the forum in a while, but I love the dialog on this post! I agree that we should have an option that does not require a slide for those that just want something different... We offer that on the Phoenix TRX and I would love to have the same offering on the Phoenix Cruiser.
We do like to listen to all of your ideas. That is how the 2351D came about... My husband and I were at the Hershey show a couple years ago and a customer spent quite a bit of time with us sharing their suggestions and now its our #2 floorpan after the 2552.
We did streamline the floorpans that we focusing on.  The models that were pulled from the website, while they did have their merits in their own rights had less than 1/4 of the retail interest of the 2552 over the past 5 years. Since we are a limited production manufacture already, that means that was a very low number each year for those floorpans.
Never say never, these floorpans are always in our back pocket :-)
keep the ideas coming :-)

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Bangorbob

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Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2021, 10:54:15 am »
Gosh!!   It is so refreshing to hear from the company itself rather than reading a bunch of hearsay on the internet.  I know it doesn't change things, but at least PC USA is willing to monitor and listen. 

BTW, this is only MY opinion.

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mikeh

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Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2021, 11:39:57 am »
Agreed, Bob.

I know that Phoenix wants to limit their involvement in this forum, but it's great to get their thoughts directly on occasion!

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Volkemon

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Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2021, 11:40:21 am »

 I feel the way I do with my "structural" points of concern unsubstantiated. 


I am glad that you realize that.

Saves me a LOT of typing.  roflol

I love the storage on top of the slide, not sure of a better place to have the (2) 5' tall beach umbrellas. And my 'bag of tripods' goes up there.  We stash many things up there, have yet to have sudden braking dislodge any.

When my dinette is finished, you can see how 54" will make a nice storage and dinette area. Just as I have no need for dining area on my bed, I have no need for a sleeping area on my dinette. I cant wait to dump that space wasting power couch that has not been extended since late 2018.   2o2


Were I in the 'New PC ' market, we would be in total agreement on slides.
I do feel bad for the folks with the new slide. Really seems to be a piece of crap from all accounts.  For any argument I have heard to NOT have a slide, the abysmal quality and (apparent) doubtful service life of the new slides would have ME looking for a no slide model.  (exactly) 

""You want to save money on travel, drive a Prius and stay at motel 6""  Forum Member Joseph


WORD.

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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2021, 02:35:41 am »
I do feel bad for the folks with the new slide. Really seems to be a piece of crap from all accounts.  For any argument I have heard to NOT have a slide, the abysmal quality and (apparent) doubtful service life of the new slides would have ME looking for a no slide model.
I'm with you.

Why change a good thing?  I wonder if the reason for the change in the slide-out mechanics has something to do with the weight and/or size that the mechanics can handle.  Maybe the largest of PC slide-outs requires the new design, making some sense to standardize on the one design for every application.

One thing certain, the old design you have was much more reliable.  The later twin motor design is problematic across the RV industry, not just Phoenix Cruisers.
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rvrunner

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Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2021, 07:03:04 am »
I called Liftco, they said there slide cost twice as much as Lipperts. Most of their slides are sold for commercial use. There philosophy is, once they sell you a product, they don't want to see you again for twenty years. That pretty much says it all.

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mikeh

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Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2021, 09:29:24 am »
As a first-time RV owner when I bought my PC in 2019, I had no reason to know anything about slide-outs despite a long background with mechanical and electrical things.

Consequently, when I experienced my slide problem this last summer I spent quite a bit of time online getting some background on slides in general and the new Lippert system in particular.  Although I still have no direct hands-on experience (which is by far the best way to learn), what I think I've learned is that the twin-motor/two-shaft/four-gear Lippert system is a very lightweight unit that likely requires a careful installation with close tolerances for long-term reliability.  I can see why it is attractive to manufacturers--it adds minimal weight to the coach and is low cost.  Properly installed, it will handle even the big whole-wall slide-outs, but it is not a very forgiving system.  It's definitely not a "heavy-duty" type system that man-handles the slide.  Standing alone it is spindly and wobbly and relies on the attachments to the slide and the coach to give it stability and structure; the racks are shallow and tooth engagement is minimal.  If the slide box is well-designed with a close tolerance fit and stable structure and the coach walls don't flex, the Lippert will reliably move the box in and out for extended service.  But that's all it does, is move the box--it won't carry the box, or force the box, or power through flexing tolerances in the box or coach walls.  It relies on proper design and installation to work reliably long-term.

That's what I think I've learned about the Lippert system that my unit has.  Maybe someone with that valuable hands-on experience can correct or better explain my assumptions.

Mike

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Joseph

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Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2021, 10:15:49 am »
Mike. Good info thank you.  Being Ron and others apparently have read of increasing problems with a new design I canít help but wonder why or when it will be addressed? It seems to take forever before a manufacturer steps up and corrects a problem design.

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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2021, 11:04:36 am »
Interesting discussion....slide outs.....even though I don't have one.

I did not realize the new Lippert design weighs so much less than the earlier design.

Kermit told me long ago, each slide out weighed between 400 and 600 pounds (compared to not having a slide out) pending it's size and what is inside it, but that reflected the earlier mechanism.
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garmp

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Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2021, 11:13:42 am »
With the flexing and preventing torque being a large concern which would be best when setting up. Put slides out then use jacks to level or level then put slides out?
Just asking for my own benefit.
Jack is what we call our PC 2351D, and he has taken us from campers to RV'ers and loving it. We're no longer Team Bob. Just Jack the RV!