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Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ron Dittmer on September 29, 2021, 08:27:11 am

Title: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Ron Dittmer on September 29, 2021, 08:27:11 am
I just noticed that Phoenix dropped models 2350 and 2551.  They were the most popular models not so long ago.  I guess adding the extra foot in creating models 2351 and 2552 has been most successful.

I am partial to model 2350 because we've owned one for 14 years and counting.  I've always appreciated having an unmodified 158" wheel base chassis, keeping it all Ford-standard.  Oh well.  That's progress.

Another 6 years and we will own a classic.  :)

Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Joseph on September 29, 2021, 09:45:11 am
Ron. I wouldnít have thought the 2350 would be gone. The 2551 doesnít surprise me though but who knows , another 6 years and the 2351 and 2552 or other models could be dropped. Or PC itself could be gone. One never knows.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: rvrunner on September 29, 2021, 11:30:25 am
Phoenix will no longer make any models without a slide.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Joseph on September 29, 2021, 12:56:40 pm
RVrunner, canít say Iím surprised now that they no longer sell factory direct. The majority of buyers want a slide so itís a gamble sending out units to lots without.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: donc13 on September 29, 2021, 03:46:11 pm
I am surprised at dropping the 2551, it used to be their most popular model.  The 1 foot shorter wheelbase than the 2552 makes it a bit easier to maneuver on sharp corners.

OH well, things change, we love our 2551 and see no real advantages to a 2552, but then, we're not looking for a new RV anyway.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Joseph on September 29, 2021, 05:02:07 pm
Don, does the 2551 have the euro recliner? Iím wondering what the price difference is between the two models. Could be itís not enough that most just go for the 2552. I bought used so itís what was out there at the time but I will say we use the Euro chair all the time. Other than that I doubt Iíd notice the 1 less foot.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: donc13 on September 29, 2021, 05:19:46 pm
Don, does the 2551 have the euro recliner? Iím wondering what the price difference is between the two models. Could be itís not enough that most just go for the 2552. I bought used so itís what was out there at the time but I will say we use the Euro chair all the time. Other than that I doubt Iíd notice the 1 less foot.

The swivel chair behind the passenger seat... No.   The recliner sofa-bed, yes.

The other thing the 2552 has is a pantry between the refrigerator and the sofa.  The 2551 doesn't have one.

We turned the "shirt closets" at the foot of the twin beds into our pantry on one side and storage on the other by adding shelf mounting rails in those closets and a couple of shelves in each.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: mikeh on October 01, 2021, 05:58:20 pm
Believe it or not, I suspect that the existence of the pantry may be the difference.

I picked up my unit at Phoenix today--it's been in the shop the past couple of days letting them repair a little glitch with my slide out.  I mentioned to Keith that I noticed they had dropped a couple of models.  He said that both the 2350 and 2551 had dropped off in sales, and that with the extra foot people could get the pantry which they seemed to prefer.  The two 2351 models and the 2552 were the most popular to the point that it didn't make sense to continue the shorter units.

Of course, there have been a consistent re-vamp of PC models over the years, so as Joseph commented--there will undoubtedly be additional changes in the next few years.

One observation, their storage area is crammed with new bare chassis--both Transits and 450s.  Didn't count them, but many more than I've ever seen on previous visits.  Looks like business is good!

Mike
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: rvrunner on October 01, 2021, 07:31:55 pm
Did your little glitch require the slide to be removed?
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: mikeh on October 01, 2021, 09:36:52 pm
Did your little glitch require the slide to be removed?
Yes it did.  I have had the occasional "pop" noise on the front side of the slide when extending or retracting for quite a while, but the slide always moved smoothly and evenly in and out all the way and shut down automatically as it was supposed to.  Visual inspection of the tracks and anything else I could see looked fine.

On a trip this summer, however, it suddenly would not extend.  The motors ran, the rear top and bottom would start to move outward, and the top of the front would attempt to move---but the bottom in front was locked solid.  I tried some significant force but it didn't help, and since the slide was fully retracted I decided to leave well enough alone until I could get some service.  I still do a lot of my own stuff, but pulling that slide was more than I thought I wanted to tackle.

Phoenix service was booked solid until late September, but I didn't know a service that I would trust more so I waited.  They took a couple of days to pull the slide and replace both front and rear drives.  They also reinforced the rear wall that braces the slide to ensure that no flex was contributing to the problem.  That is my personal opinion--that the periodic "pop" I was getting was due to a little excess play that was allowing the slide gear to slip on the rack teeth (just my guess though).  In any case, all seems well now.

Mike

Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: rvrunner on October 02, 2021, 06:22:16 am
I will tart a new topic on this.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Ron Dittmer on October 02, 2021, 09:29:40 am
The consumer must work through the dealer network, no longer directly with the factory in buying a PC.  People can order a PC to get the color they want, but as of late, it ends there.  I wonder if people can still order a PC without a slide out.  If not, that would be a big "downer" for me.

Throughout Phoenix's history, one very big reason to consider a PC for many people, was the ability to make reasonable deviations.  I hear since COVID struck, deviations are no longer offered.  I hope post-COVID, Phoenix will reinstate deviations.  That was very influential in buying our PC back in 2007, and it was always a point I made to other prospective buyers.  I am now more limited with my recommendations to consider a PC.

I do understand the logic at this time.  If Phoenix sells every fully optioned PC and can't make them fast enough, why offer deviations?  But every industry goes through it's cycles.  When the demand cycles downward, that is typically when incentives are offered....maybe that will include reasonable deviations again.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Joseph on October 02, 2021, 10:04:17 am
Ron, even being a downer thereís an easy work around. Just donít use the slide if your worried about it failing.  Thereís no weight issue and having the slide in does not take away from the rigs use. One of my friends would  always special orders cars with no ac because of his asthma. Said it was a waste of money because he couldnít use it. It took me years to get him to stop that, just donít use it and keep the resale value and ease of selling as well.

Iím betting offering deviations other than paint slows the assembly line considerably. So like you mentioned with the business cycles of the industry, once it slows again they very well open up to mods. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Ron Dittmer on October 02, 2021, 10:30:10 am
Joseph,

It's more than just the use of the slide out and the negative points associated with it's use.  People like me.....

- want a dinette instead of a couch
- don't want a huge box inside the house
- want a lot more upper cabinet storage
- don't want to carry an extra 500 pounds
- want a more solid house structure
- want the roof stronger to better support the a/c unit
- don't want the extra source for road noise and air leakage
- don't want to pay the extra ~$5000 for something that detracts from our RVing experience.

On this past trip, our E350 chassis died while driving on Interstate 90 which required a tow.  I have skid wheels on the rear hitch.  While being carefully pulled up the tow truck ramp, at one point the rear axle slowly lowered away from the chassis, though never got suspended in the air.  This meant the weight slowly transferred to the PC-added frame extension and throughout the house.  Nothing went wrong, no strange noises, no split seams, no concerns.  But I wonder what would have happened if our PC had a massive slide out hole in the wall along with an extra 500 pounds in the worst possible place, amplifying the concern and condition.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51512543177_4db1787835_z.jpg)

The mechanical failure turned out to be the E350 fuel pump control module, a $150 part with an electrical connector on it, mounted on the frame between the fuel tank and engine.  This is the bad module and the carton of the new one.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51542617448_e8cfae9e11_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: rvrunner on October 02, 2021, 11:29:33 am
Our slide just went out for the third time in 3 years. The factory can't get us in until next year. We will live in our 2400 for 4 months this winter with no slide. That means no walk around sofa bed, wife will sleep kitty corner on partially extended sofa, I'll break down the dinette. That means we'll be making 2 beds every night, and carrying double bedding. We will lose our large living room which is one of the reasons we bought it. All we'll have is a narrow walkway to get from the front to the back. The walls to the slide will be inside the coach all the time giving us a claustrophobic feeling. We have 110,000 miles on the motorhome so selling it would mean a big loss. The PC is a beautiful motorhome with a beautiful interior but the good looks are deceiving. The service dept has treated me very
well but unfortunately they can't do miracles. For those of you who have the Liftco slide, you are lucky, they last a long time. I was told at the factory that they stopped offering non slide models, they can't get sofas that will fit.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Ron Dittmer on October 02, 2021, 01:57:30 pm
Our slide just went out for the third time in 3 years. The factory can't get us in until next year. We will live in our 2400 for 4 months this winter with no slide. That means no walk around sofa bed, wife will sleep kitty corner on partially extended sofa, I'll break down the dinette. That means we'll be making 2 beds every night, and carrying double bedding. We will lose our large living room which is one of the reasons we bought it. All we'll have is a narrow walkway to get from the front to the back. The walls to the slide will be inside the coach all the time giving us a claustrophobic feeling. We have 110,000 miles on the motorhome so selling it would mean a big loss. The PC is a beautiful motorhome with a beautiful interior but the good looks are deceiving. The service dept has treated me very
well but unfortunately they can't do miracles. For those of you who have the Liftco slide, you are lucky, they last a long time. I was told at the factory that they stopped offering non slide models, they can't get sofas that will fit.
Email me direct at dittmer.ron@gmail.com

Time to go to "Plan-B" before you leave home on that 4 month long outing.....making this your first stop.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Joseph on October 02, 2021, 02:05:50 pm
Ron, ok so tens of thousands of units with slides, some whole side slides. I have yet to read where the roof couldnít support the weight of the ac units.  Weight of the slide on a 2552 loaded as an example is a non issue. We drag more crap along that we never use and are never close to max. Heck we pack so heavy I usually place a case or more of wine under the bathroom sink. I have a dinette so thatís a nine issue as well. I havenít had any leaks in 74,000+ miles and itís now 10 years old.

Now onto the price difference. You said itís 5 grand more.  I have no idea if the exact amount but we will use your example. Being the market calls for more units with than with out how much of that 5 grand do you think youíll lose when you sell? I donít know if itís possible to find but I wonder what the price difference would be on say 2 exact 2552 units with same mileage (say 50K) when one has a a slide and one does not. Which sells faster as well and for more? Just how much do you lose? And letís not forget if you bought the rig to save money on vacation you made a very bad decision to begin with.

And for Peteís sake they can flat bed 45í rigs if need be or simply disconnect the drive shaft and use a traditional tow.

I get it your anti slide but many of your reasons have minimal  validity.

Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Ron Dittmer on October 02, 2021, 10:52:11 pm
Hi Joseph,

If a vote was taken, I think slide outs would get 90% of the vote.  Their popularity is tremendous.

You make excellent points of which I can't argue.  I feel the way I do with my "structural" points of concern unsubstantiated.  I didn't mean to debate whether a slide out is good or bad.

I feel the way I do about slide outs in part because I personally hope to own our PC 35 to 40 years.  We had that in-mind when we ordered it back in 2007.  I can only imagine that the workings and sealing of a slide out so old will have significantly degraded and become problematic as many 25 to 30 year old slide outs have become today.

My other points that are non-structural in nature, is all a matter of trade-offs.  You give up some things to gain others.

Your point in having a dinette inside a slide out is noted.  Models 2351 and 2552 with a slide out can accommodate a dinette by sacrificing the pantry there.  Models 2350 and 2551 could have a dinette only without a slide out.

Models 2351 and 2552 without a slide out, without a pantry, but with a dinette, made for a very nice size dining table and more leg room for longer-legged people.  It also made a longer bed for a taller person.  That option of which is no longer offered, always intrigued me for the table size and leg room.  Me at 5'-11" fits fine sleeping on our 2350 dinette.

If I could have bought model 2351 back in 2007, I might have considered utilizing that extra wall space to double the size of the main closet having top-to-bottom shelves on one side.  We store our clothes in the over-bed cabinets which works but is naturally inconvenient.  We would fight over those closet shelves.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Joseph on October 03, 2021, 09:43:27 am
Ron, I get it. My main point is for those that donít want a slide but want a quality unit like PC there is the option of simply not using the slide. And you are not likely to lose much if any on resale. There are rigs where you canít really use the rig unless the slide is out, fortunately PC has units where thatís not the case.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Ron Dittmer on October 03, 2021, 09:08:10 pm
Ron, I get it. My main point is for those that donít want a slide but want a quality unit like PC there is the option of simply not using the slide. And you are not likely to lose much if any on resale. There are rigs where you canít really use the rig unless the slide is out, fortunately PC has units where thatís not the case.
Agreed!
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Phoenix USA RV Forum Team on October 04, 2021, 10:11:18 am
Hi Everyone!
I have not been on the forum in a while, but I love the dialog on this post! I agree that we should have an option that does not require a slide for those that just want something different... We offer that on the Phoenix TRX and I would love to have the same offering on the Phoenix Cruiser.
We do like to listen to all of your ideas. That is how the 2351D came about... My husband and I were at the Hershey show a couple years ago and a customer spent quite a bit of time with us sharing their suggestions and now its our #2 floorpan after the 2552.
We did streamline the floorpans that we focusing on.  The models that were pulled from the website, while they did have their merits in their own rights had less than 1/4 of the retail interest of the 2552 over the past 5 years. Since we are a limited production manufacture already, that means that was a very low number each year for those floorpans.
Never say never, these floorpans are always in our back pocket :-)
keep the ideas coming :-)
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Bangorbob on October 04, 2021, 10:54:15 am
Gosh!!   It is so refreshing to hear from the company itself rather than reading a bunch of hearsay on the internet.  I know it doesn't change things, but at least PC USA is willing to monitor and listen. 

BTW, this is only MY opinion.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: mikeh on October 04, 2021, 11:39:57 am
Agreed, Bob.

I know that Phoenix wants to limit their involvement in this forum, but it's great to get their thoughts directly on occasion!
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Volkemon on October 04, 2021, 11:40:21 am

 I feel the way I do with my "structural" points of concern unsubstantiated. 


I am glad that you realize that.

Saves me a LOT of typing.  roflol

I love the storage on top of the slide, not sure of a better place to have the (2) 5' tall beach umbrellas. And my 'bag of tripods' goes up there.  We stash many things up there, have yet to have sudden braking dislodge any.

When my dinette is finished, you can see how 54" will make a nice storage and dinette area. Just as I have no need for dining area on my bed, I have no need for a sleeping area on my dinette. I cant wait to dump that space wasting power couch that has not been extended since late 2018.   2o2


Were I in the 'New PC ' market, we would be in total agreement on slides.
I do feel bad for the folks with the new slide. Really seems to be a piece of crap from all accounts.  For any argument I have heard to NOT have a slide, the abysmal quality and (apparent) doubtful service life of the new slides would have ME looking for a no slide model.  (exactly) 

Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Ron Dittmer on October 05, 2021, 02:35:41 am
I do feel bad for the folks with the new slide. Really seems to be a piece of crap from all accounts.  For any argument I have heard to NOT have a slide, the abysmal quality and (apparent) doubtful service life of the new slides would have ME looking for a no slide model.
I'm with you.

Why change a good thing?  I wonder if the reason for the change in the slide-out mechanics has something to do with the weight and/or size that the mechanics can handle.  Maybe the largest of PC slide-outs requires the new design, making some sense to standardize on the one design for every application.

One thing certain, the old design you have was much more reliable.  The later twin motor design is problematic across the RV industry, not just Phoenix Cruisers.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: rvrunner on October 05, 2021, 07:03:04 am
I called Liftco, they said there slide cost twice as much as Lipperts. Most of their slides are sold for commercial use. There philosophy is, once they sell you a product, they don't want to see you again for twenty years. That pretty much says it all.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: mikeh on October 05, 2021, 09:29:24 am
As a first-time RV owner when I bought my PC in 2019, I had no reason to know anything about slide-outs despite a long background with mechanical and electrical things.

Consequently, when I experienced my slide problem this last summer I spent quite a bit of time online getting some background on slides in general and the new Lippert system in particular.  Although I still have no direct hands-on experience (which is by far the best way to learn), what I think I've learned is that the twin-motor/two-shaft/four-gear Lippert system is a very lightweight unit that likely requires a careful installation with close tolerances for long-term reliability.  I can see why it is attractive to manufacturers--it adds minimal weight to the coach and is low cost.  Properly installed, it will handle even the big whole-wall slide-outs, but it is not a very forgiving system.  It's definitely not a "heavy-duty" type system that man-handles the slide.  Standing alone it is spindly and wobbly and relies on the attachments to the slide and the coach to give it stability and structure; the racks are shallow and tooth engagement is minimal.  If the slide box is well-designed with a close tolerance fit and stable structure and the coach walls don't flex, the Lippert will reliably move the box in and out for extended service.  But that's all it does, is move the box--it won't carry the box, or force the box, or power through flexing tolerances in the box or coach walls.  It relies on proper design and installation to work reliably long-term.

That's what I think I've learned about the Lippert system that my unit has.  Maybe someone with that valuable hands-on experience can correct or better explain my assumptions.

Mike
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Joseph on October 05, 2021, 10:15:49 am
Mike. Good info thank you.  Being Ron and others apparently have read of increasing problems with a new design I canít help but wonder why or when it will be addressed? It seems to take forever before a manufacturer steps up and corrects a problem design.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Ron Dittmer on October 05, 2021, 11:04:36 am
Interesting discussion....slide outs.....even though I don't have one.

I did not realize the new Lippert design weighs so much less than the earlier design.

Kermit told me long ago, each slide out weighed between 400 and 600 pounds (compared to not having a slide out) pending it's size and what is inside it, but that reflected the earlier mechanism.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: garmp on October 05, 2021, 11:13:42 am
With the flexing and preventing torque being a large concern which would be best when setting up. Put slides out then use jacks to level or level then put slides out?
Just asking for my own benefit.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: JKSan on October 05, 2021, 11:25:43 am
I, for one, level the rig and then extend the slide.  That was suggested to me somewhere.  Mechanically speaking, it makes sense to have a level rig which would minimize the possibility of a twist due to uneven terrain.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: mikeh on October 05, 2021, 12:11:58 pm
I, for one, level the rig and then extend the slide.  That was suggested to me somewhere.  Mechanically speaking, it makes sense to have a level rig which would minimize the possibility of a twist due to uneven terrain.

Both my Lippert Operating Manual for my slide-out, and my HWH Operating Manual for my automatic levelers specify that the coach must be braked and leveled before the slide is extended.  In addition, they state that the slide must be retracted first, before the  coach comes off of the leveling system.

I think with the Lippert slide mechanism, it may be even more important to follow that requirement to avoid any twist or flex that might cause uneven stress on the slide--just as JKSan says.  When I am parked just overnight at a Cracker Barrel or Wal-Mart, and the surface is level, I have sometimes not bothered to deploy my levelers.  Given my recent experience with my slide, I will now absolutely not extend it without my levelers being down.

Mike
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: rvrunner on October 05, 2021, 04:02:41 pm
Mike, I think you are correct about installing the slide, it has to be a perfect fit to work properly. My friends View has a 12 ft slide with only 3 rollers and 2 water tanks in the slide, you can see that the rollers are rolling evenly, his View is 6 years old with 70,000 miles, he's had no problems but, Winnebago has changed slides from the swintec to power gear. both are made by Lippert, WBO claims less problems with power gear.
 My question is, is it worth getting my slide fixed? Won't the slide room have to be rebuilt in order for it to work correctly and then there would be no guarantees that it would work correctly for very long.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: mikeh on October 05, 2021, 06:34:35 pm
rvrunner----

I am a long way from any kind of expert on slides, but I do have some thoughts.  I don't know how many Lippert Swintec unit there are out there---but there are a bunch.  Just driving through the small RV park where I'm currently parked in upper Michigan this morning I counted 7 out of 21 RVs that had slides out were Swintec--mostly on trailers and Class C units.  That's a third of the RVs in this park--that's a pretty high percentage using this design, and obviously, not all of them are failing.  There's a world of Swintec slides out there, and most of them continue to work.

You mentioned in an earlier post that you have had three slide failures in three years---Wow!  I don't blame you for being upset and concerned.  You didn't mention what the failures were, whether they were all the same, who repaired your unit, or what had to be done in repairs.  If Phoenix handled both previous repairs, I believe I would have a heart to heart talk with them before they did the third one, and find out what they could do or what I could do to prevent there from being a fourth instance.  The 110,000 miles that you mention on your PC indicates a lot of usage, and I would ask them if that is contributing to the recurring problem.

The repair on my slide consisted of Phoenix pulling the slide, replacing completely both side drive units, and "reinforcing the rear wall adjacent to the slide".  Essentially, I've got a new slide installation--it wasn't cheap, but right now it's working great.  I told them that I trusted them to fix it right, and they said they did; I will take care to use it properly, but I expect to see the proof of that in future performance.

You have already relayed the problems that not having a working slide-room create for you, so if you don't want to replace your rig at this point, fixing the slide seems like the obvious thing to do.  But again, if you're going that way, I would have a careful talk with Phoenix that I wanted them to do whatever was necessary to try to ensure no more slide issues as long as you use it properly.  I don't think that would mean that they would have  to "rebuild" your slide room--but they may need to install some reinforcement in addition to new slide mechanisms, depending on what your exact current problem is.  In any case, Phoenix should have the best understanding of the coach and the best capability to fix it correctly.

All the best,     Mike
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: rvrunner on October 05, 2021, 08:44:04 pm
My last 2 slide repairs were at the factory, both were complete rebuilds, new motors, rails, gears, the works. The last rebuild was done in Aug. I used the slide 8 times and now it's popping and bucking and the gears are gouging the rail. The factory is well aware of my problem. I asked how long this rebuild will last and was told 1 or 2 yrs.They've had to replace 50 swintec slides since they've been installing them, I estimate that's a high failure rate. After talking to the service manager the problem is passed on to the shop. I've pointed out that one of the rollers carries a lot more weight than the others, they can't seem to figure it out, they say it's kind of a pressure point but don't know why. I can have another heart to heart talk with the service manager but the bottom line is the guys in the shop will have to figure it out.
 I don't know how much farther I want to chase this problem. I've already been to Elkhart 7 times and if I lived closer I probably would've been there twice that. I've had other problems and cancelling trips and cutting trips short has been common. I'll think about a solution this winter. Keep the advice and comments coming, I'm all ears.
 I did talk to a private repair shop and was told something is wrong with the slide room, causing the swintec system to fail.

  Thanks
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: mikeh on October 06, 2021, 12:11:56 am
rvrunner---

I see two or three statements in your last post that I myself would be making verbatim if I had the problem you describe above:

 1.  "I don't know how much farther  I want to chase this problem."
Agreed.  With seven trips, two slide rebuilds, and another pending failure two months and eight uses later, I would be ready to chuck in the towel!

2.  "......the problem is passed to the shop."  "....the bottom line is that the guys in the shop will have to figure it out."
Agreed.  That's typically the way it goes.  I've been there.  The manager "talks" the issue, but he's not the guy that has to sort out the nuts and bolts.  That goes to the hands-on folks; it's up to them to identify the problem, solve it, and fix it.

I would still maintain that Phoenix USA SHOULD be the most qualified resource to identify and correct your problem.  They built the coach.  They install hundreds of slides per year in identical or similar models.  If there is something unusual about your slide-room--the way it fits and works--they should be the ones most qualified to spot the issue and know how to correct it.  Obviously they've not done that yet.  I would hope that if you had a complete rebuild in August and used it only eight times with severe symptoms now recurring, they're at least prepared to take care of your current problem with only your hassle of getting it back and forth.  That doesn't make it good, but it at least makes it right.

I can definitely understand your debate of whether continuing to fight the problem is even worth it.  I don't know your situation, but with 110K on the odometer anyway, I would be sorely tempted to fix the slide one more time and make a trade.  The other side of that coin is that, again, a whole world  full of Swintecs are operating out there every day, and yours should be able to be one of them.  If  Phoenix has "replaced 50 of them", I agree that sounds like an unusually high failure rate; still, the percentage of all units they built, many with multiple slides, probably falls well below 10%--maybe low single digits.

Your final comment that I would echo is:
3.  "Keep the advice and comments coming, I'm all ears."
Agreed.  I would be looking for any meaningful help too---I only wish I had worthwhile advice to give.  It sounds like you have a difficult situation, and I don't have an absolute answer.  Based on your report, I think Phoenix needs to fix your slide again (on their dime), and you will have to decide whether to stay with your unit or make the break at that time.

Again, all the best,       Mike

Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: CalCruiser on October 06, 2021, 03:44:43 am
Heading home from a 1600 mile, 8 day adventure last night we stayed at a place that was hosting a large Pleasure Way owners rally. That got me thinking about their limited storage ,tiny refrigerators, single rear wheel axles, and toilets inside the shower stalls, I was also wondering  how many of our WONDERFUL little Phoenix Cruiser 2350ís were produced over the years. Then I got home and saw this thread. If Tina  Cooper is still reading perhaps she can tell us how many were produced altogether, as  well as by  model year?

BTW- Whoís nightscape PC was headed  NW  on 389 beteeen Fredonia and Hurricane last Weds?
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Ron Dittmer on October 06, 2021, 07:57:45 am
It would be very interesting to read through Phoenix's production numbers since the beginning, the quantity of each model produced each model year.  It would also be interesting how many slide-less units were produced.

Another interesting observation was that models 2100 and 2400 both survived the 2022 model year.  They have the same basic floor plan, one being roughly 3 feet longer than the other.  I knew model 2100 was popular.  I did not realize the demand for model 2400 remains strong.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Ron Dittmer on October 06, 2021, 08:28:53 am
mikeh and rvrunner,

Your conversation is very interesting.  Your thoughts about the Schwintek slide-out system makes sense.  Any motorhome, PC or otherwise, needs to be leveled prior to operating the slide-out to prevent misalignment issues or permanent damage.  Having automatic levelers seems to be an essential feature on a rig with at least one Schwintek slide-out.

I wonder if Phoenix went with the E450 chassis on every PC (no more E350s on short models) to offer the strongest frame for the least amount of flexing.  Every frame flexes some amount, and obviously less is better.  The thickness of the E450 frame is a bit more than the E350....at least it was back in 2007.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: donc13 on October 06, 2021, 05:39:44 pm
mikeh and rvrunner,

Your conversation is very interesting.  Your thoughts about the Schwintek slide-out system makes sense.  Any motorhome, PC or otherwise, needs to be leveled prior to operating the slide-out to prevent misalignment issues or permanent damage.  Having automatic levelers seems to be an essential feature on a rig with at least one Schwintek slide-out.

I wonder if Phoenix went with the E450 chassis on every PC (no more E350s on short models) to offer the strongest frame for the least amount of flexing.  Every frame flexes some amount, and obviously less is better.  The thickness of the E450 frame is a bit more than the E350....at least it was back in 2007.

Thickness meaning the gauge of the steel, or the height of the frame "C" channel top to bottom?

I was under the impression (and could easily be wrong) that the frame itself was the same on the 350 and 450 super duty chassis.  The weight carrying capability was determined by the axle, differential ratio, spring, shocks and brakes.

Again, my impression could easily be wrong.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Ron Dittmer on October 06, 2021, 05:53:30 pm
I was under the impression (and could easily be wrong) that the frame itself was the same on the 350 and 450 super duty chassis.  The weight carrying capability was determined by the axle, differential ratio, spring, shocks and brakes.

Again, my impression could easily be wrong.
I have the 2007 Ford E-Series chassis specs in front of me.  On page 16, it states

E350 frame material thickness is 0.228"
E450 frame material thickness is 0.248"
They are dimensionally identical at 7.69" x 3.18"
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: WillLloyd on October 07, 2021, 06:34:32 am
When we were having problems with our 2910 I thought I was going to have to pull the slide, turns out I did not need to do that.  In the process I contacted Liftco and they sent me a wealth of information on the slide hardware, 100-fold more than was in any owners manual.  I wonder if Lippert has similar information available that may help in one troubleshoot or repair their own slide problem?
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: donc13 on October 07, 2021, 07:20:39 am
I was under the impression (and could easily be wrong) that the frame itself was the same on the 350 and 450 super duty chassis.  The weight carrying capability was determined by the axle, differential ratio, spring, shocks and brakes.

Again, my impression could easily be wrong.
I have the 2007 Ford E-Series chassis specs in front of me.  On page 16, it states

E350 frame material thickness is 0.228"
E450 frame material thickness is 0.248"
They are dimensionally identical at 7.69" x 3.18"

OK, my impression was wrong.  Thanks for the info!
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Ron Dittmer on October 07, 2021, 08:11:40 am
I was under the impression (and could easily be wrong) that the frame itself was the same on the 350 and 450 super duty chassis.  The weight carrying capability was determined by the axle, differential ratio, spring, shocks and brakes.

Again, my impression could easily be wrong.
I have the 2007 Ford E-Series chassis specs in front of me.  On page 16, it states

E350 frame material thickness is 0.228"
E450 frame material thickness is 0.248"
They are dimensionally identical at 7.69" x 3.18"

OK, my impression was wrong.  Thanks for the info!
I see I also have the 2019 Ford chassis specs.  On page 40, it states the same as 2007, so no changes were made in 12 years.  The E350 frame remains thinner than the E450 frame by 0.020"

Here is a "capture" of the 2019 spec sheet.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51560384992_637ac55c70_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: mikeh on October 07, 2021, 09:41:23 am
When we were having problems with our 2910 I thought I was going to have to pull the slide, turns out I did not need to do that.  In the process I contacted Liftco and they sent me a wealth of information on the slide hardware, 100-fold more than was in any owners manual.  I wonder if Lippert has similar information available that may help in one troubleshoot or repair their own slide problem?

WillLloyd,

The Lippert Owner's Manual provides operational and troubleshooting information.  It provides a pretty good identification and breakdown of the components, such as motors, motor controllers, gears, racks, etc.  It provides guidance on interpreting the various light codes at the motor controllers--what they mean and what do do about any trouble code.  It also discusses how to disconnect the system to be able to move the slide manually if that should become necessary.

The manual does all that pretty well, but it doesn't go into any installation or removal of the system, or exactly how to pull or replace major components.  One factor is that the Schwintek slide mechanism can be installed differently in different RV applications.  Some of the general installation is common, but other aspects require changes.  For instance, the curved sides of the Phoenix coach required a different installation that the common straight-sided RV.  Lippert may have more complete detailed instructions available, but they aren't included in the regular manual.

Mike
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Taildragger on October 10, 2021, 11:34:59 pm
quote author=Ron Dittmer


"On this past trip, our E350 chassis died while driving on Interstate 90 which required a tow. 

The mechanical failure turned out to be the E350 fuel pump control module, a $150 part with an electrical connector on it, mounted on the frame between the fuel tank and engine."

The Dreaded FORD Fuel Pump Failure

Reports of this problem occurring are abundant, widespread, and concerning  Contributors to the PC Forum and many other RV blogs report their being stranded with Fuel Pump failures.  Often, the failure is sudden and complete.  Some victims report the threat can be mitigated by driving only when the fuel tank level is above half-full. Other victims observe the combination of driving uphill with a partial tank will instigate fuel deprivation caused engine stoppage.

Many who have experienced the problem refer to a Fuel Pump Reset Switch.  Supposedly, located under the passenger side kick panel, it can be relied upon to regain normal operation.

I am wondering if the replacement Fuel Pump Control Module is considered an upgrade and has a higher degree of reliability than the original

Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Ron Dittmer on October 11, 2021, 01:56:49 am
I am wondering if the replacement Fuel Pump Control Module is considered an upgrade and has a higher degree of reliability than the original.
I wonder too.  I would hope that Ford has recognized a "premature failure" condition and made some changes to that module.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: 2 Frazzled on October 11, 2021, 07:15:10 am
Do the articles say what the problem is that can be solved with a reset? I had a car MANY years ago that kept quitting in the same place on my commute. My mechanic figured out it was "vapor lock" of the fuel pump. Being poor I couldn't afford to fix it for a good long while so he taught me to whack the pump with a rock. It worked like burping a baby. That rock became part of my tool kit.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Ron Dittmer on October 11, 2021, 08:28:14 am
About our Fuel Pump Driver Module (FPDM) road-side failure.

We were cruising 65 mph on Interstate 90 when the engine suddenly died as if I had turned the ignition key to the "off" position.  I rolled the rig off to the shoulder to a dead stop.  After some thought, the first thing I checked was if the fuel pump was working.  I turned the ignition key to hear the fuel pump make that humming noise but I heard nothing.  It was terribly windy outside (the wind noise was very loud) so I crawled under the fuel tank and had Irene turn the key, but I still heard nothing.  The next thing I did was inspect fuel pump fuses.  Under the hood, I quickly found a blown yellow 20 amp fuse.  I replaced it and it blew again when trying to start the engine.  I replaced it again, this time also replacing the supporting relay with the one from the HVAC blower motor (they are the part number).  The engine started, so I thought all was well and so we continued on our journey.  That lasted about 5 miles and the exact same failure happened again.  Now we were 25 miles east of Buffalo WY (5 miles further away), and 45 miles from Gillette WY, further deeper into questionable cell phone coverage.  I decided to call it quits and call a tow truck.

If I had a bag full of spare relays and fuses, I would have been tempted to keep feeding them until we got to Gillette, a decent sized city for finding a repair center.

I did not tamper with the fuel pump centrifugal reset switch located in the passenger foot well, though I should have to rule it out.

I did not open and close the fuel filler cap to release fuel tank pressure, though doing so would have been a good idea.

I did not know a FPDM existed on our E350 chassis until after the repair.

I initially considered, but quickly ruled out hitting the bottom of the fuel tank to jolt the fuel pump awake because the fuel pump was already running and suddenly stopped working.  The "fuel pump jolt" is always a remedy when trying to start a vehicle, not for a vehicle running that suddenly shut down.

I was reading on another RV forum, a poster asking where his E450 fuel filter is located.  That got me thinking about our fuel filter.  Dummy me, I never changed it.  Our E350 has 42,000 miles today.  I have the big service manual for our 2007 and just now read that I should have replaced the fuel filter at 30,000 miles, so it is OVER-DUE by 12,000 miles.  That is not horrible, but it is over-due none-the-less.  Maybe a restriction in the flow of fuel was influential in the system failure.  I think flow-resistance is unlikely the cause for the FPDM but you never know.  I will be replacing the fuel filter before going anywhere in our PC again.

footnote: Earlier I was calling the Fuel Pump Driver Module (FPDM) a fuel pump control module.  Ford calls it a "FPDM".
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: CalCruiser on October 11, 2021, 05:52:14 pm
That looks like a big power transistor or DC  voltage regulator or converter. Perhaps it was an  added safety measure that was part of the change to a drive by wire throttle body, or just a change to a different  fuel pump assembly. Itís unfortunate that these types of electronic failures donít throw a DTC.  I have the old cable type throttle body and it took me a long time to  chase down a bad TPS that was still causing intermittent upshifting problems, after the corrupt local Ford dealership charged me a $125 diagnostic fee for doing nothing and tried to sell me a remanufactured transmission. 

You were indeed very fortunate to be towed to an honest and competent Ford dealer service department. If my E350 had a FPDM I would definitely be ordering a spare to keep in the emergency tool kit (RockAuto shows multiple sources), along with the spare self-resetting breaker for the house battery charging circuit  (nod) (nod)
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Taildragger on October 11, 2021, 10:48:33 pm
The part name says it all. It drives the fuel pump.

Ford has the bulk of the cutaway market and I wanted to know of any quirks others would share.  I learned this controller is a fairly common and well known problem by reading the various RV Forums.     

Among those rigs accumulating mileage, it seems the fuel pump driver module issue is the most often mentioned.  Corrosion is the culprit.  The module is made of a die cast type material and plastic.  And, like dissimilar materials, the die cast corrodes badly when mounted on the steel cross member  If this part corrodes enough, it just stops working.  Pictures accompanying the reports of failure showed severe corrosion perforating the outer shell and causing case separation  Loss of the circuit board's isolation and exposure to debris is the culprit.

Considering the replacement part includes standoff mounting washers to isolate the controller, I think that feature alone is enough to prompt me to do the installation.  I will consider the takeoff as a spare, if it isn't already demonstrating severe corrosion.  The other item for next spring before making the first trip is to locate the elusive Fuel Pump Reset switch that other claim is behind the kick panel on the passenger side floor.

My investigation found that often times the engine stoppage is wrongly diagnosed as a bad fuel pump which can be costly to replace when its not the actual issue.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Ron Dittmer on October 12, 2021, 06:13:34 am
Taildragger,

In my case with my 2007-V10 fuel pump driver module, there was no corrosion involved.  I even opened up the unit to see if water got inside.  It was well sealed and perfectly clean inside and all solder joints looked good too.

I removed the circuit board to recycle it properly.  Here are the electronics of the FPDM.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51580333161_e5b5339ec3_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51581010079_c94b182a03_z.jpg)

I designed hard circuit boards, flex circuits, and thick film circuits for Motorola all my adult life, 12 years in Motorola's Automotive Division 1977-1989.  Ford was our biggest customer back then so "This Is My Thing".

Something that stood out to me as a potential problem with the design are the two power components positioned between the two screw holes in the first picture.  They sit on the thick fiberglass FR4 circuit board with thermal grease behind them on the back side.  They are not heat sunk properly.  They should have hung off (or holes through) the circuit board and screwed or clamped directly on the alloy casting.  If they are not a ground contact, then use very thin insulator pads.  The heat is not able to efficiently pass from the components through the circuit board, to the alloy casting.  Therefore I suspect one of those two power devises overheated and failed.  They need not appear "fried" to fail internally.

I feel the design is potentially flawed, an effort to save a little money.  I frequently seen such poor design practice with Motorola's competition.  The units pass the customer robust operational specifications, but when conditions are just right, a failure still occurs.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: 2 Lucky on October 12, 2021, 08:17:47 am
Ron, you never fail to amaze me...
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Volkemon on October 15, 2021, 11:59:00 am
To simplify, the FPDM regulates the fuel pump supply voltage as a way to regulate the system pressure to achieve best mileage and emissions.   If the pump gets full voltage 100% of the time, it can affect mileage and emissions. Wont hurt the pump, however.  2o2

This was a necessary item to have once they eliminated the fuel return line to the tank to decrease emissions, as the older style pressure regulators could not be used anymore. 

The FPDM can be bypassed to 'get you home'.

This is for educational purposes only.   :lol  ................found a good pic of the jumper configuration needed for Ron's (and my) style FPDM. This is NOT how it should look before you get back underway. This picture just shows a setup to test and verify the FPDM is the cause. If you need to have it work for emergency travel purposes, fasten and insulate things so road travel will not dislodge the jumpers or short them out!!

(https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.ford-trucks.com-vbulletin/732x975/img_2263_7092905120fe0af2982d184447b9eb8f270e3e97.jpg)

On the source thread, you can see what a heavily corroded FPDM looks like.  :beg

Source - https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1645900-quick-diagnosis-for-fuel-pump-driver-module.html


 Despite corrosion seeming to be the cause most of the time, Ron D seems to be on a good diagnostic track with his dissection and analysis of his non corroded unit. I would agree that the power handling devices he mentioned are shorted/shorting to ground, blowing fuses.


But hey, for my 2006 (says it fits ""2004-2008 Fo-rd (sic) E150 E250 E350 F150 Super Duty 6.8L V10 & 5.4L V8"") and for $30, might be a good spare to have with..

https://www.amazon.com/4C2Z9D372BA-6L1Z9D372AD-Freestar-Explorer-Mercury/dp/B084ZBPZHK


or the Dorman number (590-001) comes up as 'in stock' and ~$110 at the auto Zone, also at O'Reilleys, also Discount Auto, but only $95 and in stock at NAPA.  (cheer)

So not a hard item to source, but I bet they are scarce when you are broken down on the road.  (exactly)


Topic drift.... where the best solutions hide.  roflol    roflol roflol roflol
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Ron Dittmer on October 15, 2021, 01:58:22 pm
..........Ron D seems to be on a good diagnostic track with his dissection and analysis of his non corroded unit. I would agree that the power handling devices he mentioned are shorted/shorting to ground, blowing fuses..........
Hi Volkemon,

About your comment, you misunderstood me.  To clarify.....

"IF" the two power device internal heat sinks could be grounded, they should have been attached directly to the alloy casting, not to the circuit board because that green board is a good insulator, hence those two parts operate at a much hotter temperature which a bad thing.

"IF" the two device tabs are not permitted to be grounded (a uncommon case) then they should have a micro-thin insulator to the alloy casting to minimize their thermal isolation.

When engineering refuses to spend the money on proper heat sinking like in the FPDM example, the circuit board designer should have maximized the copper on the circuit board around those component bases to absorb the heat to act like cooling fins.  It is simply good PCB design practice that comes at no cost.  I wonder if my FPDM would have lived had there been more PCB copper retained around those two parts.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: donc13 on October 15, 2021, 03:11:31 pm
Gold instead of copper would have been even better, but obviously more costly.

The design of anything is always a compromise.  Last I heard, nothing is perfect, everything has some form of flaw.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: CalCruiser on October 15, 2021, 05:08:47 pm
So the fuel pump uses pulse width modulation to vary the duty cycle. All that to eliminate the fuel pump return line as a source of vapors. Gotta love Cal EPA.

D1 and D2 are diodes. Simple  enough to measure  if they are shorted across the anode and cathode.  They really should have been located on the back side of the pcb, with heat sink compound between the tops of the cases and the housing. But that would have added another layer to the pcb and increased the cost by a few dimes  (exactly). And they could have prevented  any potential corrosion issues just by potting it.

All the more reason not to pay premium prices for Motorcraft brand electrical parts, when the stuff from Oreilly or Autozone is cheaper and has a lifetime warranty instead of 12 months.

At least you didnít have to get towed to the nearest  MB or VW dealership, and rest easy knowing that even in the middle of nowhersville USA those common good ol Ford truck parts are always available , unlike many single source oem Bosch parts that likely would have been obsoleted and discontinued by now. Been there done that. Hope you had Coachnet or equivalent with towing included . Keep calm and carry on  2o2
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Ron Dittmer on October 15, 2021, 06:58:12 pm
Like mentioned on this thread, it would be smart to carry a spare module.  It is easy enough to replace on the side of a road.  Just remember to include a spare supporting relay and fuse.  When my module failed, it took out both of them.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Joseph on October 16, 2021, 08:43:21 pm
Ron, the question becomes what spares are needed. On a trip I had a shock break, should I carry a spare? My gen starter failed should I carry one of those too? How about a engine starter or a coil pac, an egr valve and so on. Some will cause you to be dead in the water others a inconvenience etc. Thereís so many things that could possibly go wrong or none at all. It takes forever right now to get parts as well. Itís all basic risk management. A person could spend a couple grand on just in case parts and still not have whatís needed when it hits the fanÖ Murphyís law. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Ron Dittmer on October 17, 2021, 07:09:56 am
Joseph, you make a good point.  Where does one begin, and then how far does one take it?  It comes down to "peace of mind".  Some people carry a spare tire and have never used it.  Others don't carry a spare tire for that same reason....they never needed one, so why carry one?

Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Bangorbob on October 17, 2021, 09:48:50 am
I guess I would have to ask these questions, just cus I'm curious.  How many units have this part installed?  How many have failed?  If I knew that, then I could/would figure out the percentage of failure and make an educated guess as to whether I should carry a spare. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Volkemon on October 17, 2021, 10:07:48 am
I guess I would have to ask these questions, just cus I'm curious.  How many units have this part installed?  How many have failed?  If I knew that, then I could/would figure out the percentage of failure and make an educated guess as to whether I should carry a spare.

I think its like the spark plug issue for the V10. Often talked about, but if you actually do figure the percentage of failure, its not that high. I personally have experience with the V8 plugs leaving parts in the head, but never have seen the threads strip out.  I consulted with several mechanic friends about the plugs, and two had gotten the special kit just for them.... and had NEVER used them This is in a pretty busy shops.

Forums can be helpful, but also misleading.

Corrosion seems to be a VERY common problem for the failure, if not the primary cause. But using this forum, we can empirically deduce that PC's not having a slide have had unexplained failure of this part. With no other apparent cause.  roflol   

The fact that it is easy to bypass to 'get you home' makes it low on my worry list. Even if it takes out the relay and fuse, another relay can be subbed out, and I carry fuses anyway. 
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Joseph on October 17, 2021, 10:33:53 am
Ron , to a point I agree. The exception is tires have a definite life span in comparison and are subjected to different abuses.  IE; Iíve had one blow out and two flats since purchasing this pc. Iíve had several on my motorcycles. One of those was from a 3/8 chunk of rebar on the freeway. That did more than just cause a flat. 

This year our trip was typical for us at around 9,000 miles. We never saw less than three motorists with flats per day that we drove. Some on trailers, some on cars trucks or Rvís but never less than three per day and our highest day we spotted 6. Keeping track started when my Better half commented that we had flats and no one else seemed to. Granted seeing three in a day against the numbers of vehicles on the road is minuscule.

The spare I do carry is my road side assistance. When I had teenagers it paid for itself over and over. Now itís just part of my Risk management.


Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: donc13 on October 17, 2021, 08:19:25 pm
Joseph and Ron and All......

Joseph is right, the best insurance for "events" on the road is roadside assistance.   We use Good Sam Platinum at $130/year.

We have saved far more than it has cost us over the 18 years (and about 200,000 miles) we have had it.  Sure, most years we don't need it.  But those times we have, it was a comfort knowing help was a simple phone call away.

Your mileage may vary
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Ron Dittmer on October 18, 2021, 12:03:58 am
While on the side of I-90 45 miles west of Gillette WY in the middle of nowhere, we called our roadside assistance, AARP through Hartford.  They gave us numbers to call from the roadside with our working cell phone, but nobody would tow a motorhome, and nobody would work on a motorhome.  One repair shop did say that if we could get the rig there, they could get to it in 3 to 4 weeks time. It was doing our own research that we found both a tow and repair facility, then worked through AARP to make it happen with financial coverage which was also a ridiculous process.  They wouldn't forward our PC dimensions and weight, and AARP's questionable payment to the tow truck driver had him not taking prompt action.  We sat on the side of the highway for over 6 hours.  I eventually called the tow truck driver directly, gave our PC specs, and told him I will personally pay him which turned out to be $250.  I cannot recommend AARP/Hartford for RV-related roadside assistance.  Writing this reminds me I need to seek reimbursed.

So with that one-time (only time ever) experience, I can't endorse any kind of roadside assistance.  At least we didn't pay Hartford anything extra to have that terrible performing benefit.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: donc13 on October 18, 2021, 07:46:26 am
That's why we use a service designed for RV's.  Call an 800 number, tell them what we need, and we get it.  For us, the $10 per month is well worth it.

Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Joseph on October 19, 2021, 09:35:01 am
Ron, Iím sure there are better service providers than what I have or maybe at better prices than what I use. I just havenít researched enough to know quite yet. You said you called them and they gave you numbers to call. I wouldnít be ok with any company that worked that way. I have used Triple A for 36+ years. You call them and they order your service and give you an  eta. They then follow up with texts on the ETA as well as when they arrive and a follow up on the service provider.  In Ca typical wait time is 30-45 mins unless you need flat bed and ones not available due to a major accident. Then it can be longer obviously. Once out of state I waited 3 hours. I was over 60 miles from the nearest place with a tow service and they were the only one for the area so not much can be done in that case. Price however for triple A with both of us on it and RV is 170 a year. I have no idea what true comparative services cost.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: Ron Dittmer on October 19, 2021, 06:46:40 pm
It sounds like AAA-RV is a whole lot better than the free AARP Roadside Assistance included with my Hartford insurance policy.
Title: Re: Phoenix Reduces Their Models
Post by: WillLloyd on October 20, 2021, 11:28:21 am
And better than AA.