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Maintenance to prevent leaks

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WillLloyd

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Maintenance to prevent leaks
« on: September 27, 2020, 08:23:06 am »
This thread is intended to point out other areas that could leak on your PC.  I always paid much attention to the roof and used lap seal to touch up all the roof top joints.  One day I noticed a touch of moisture on the floor behind the drivers seat and started to investigate.  The photo shows the damage.  It ruined the laminate, the subfloor, the support lumber in the floor, and has lumber under the slide.  More than I want to fix myself at this point.  Fortunately, as it appears now, insurance will cover this and I am planning to take it back to the factory for repairs.

The leaks we found were miniscule, drips over a long period of time, most of the water soaked in or dried up and the damage was done before I found it.  This occurred on both the driver’s side and the passenger side.  Once the walls were open we pointed a leaf blower at the areas and applied soapy water to the outside.  Bubbles formed everywhere I show you below.

Once you start looking, there are a lot of these types of joints on the outside of the RV, I have started to clean and recaulk all of them.  Takes a lot of time…..  I use Lap Seal on the roof and this sealant on the side joints.

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WillLloyd

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Re: Maintenance to prevent leaks
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2020, 08:23:55 am »
The horizontal seam behind the cab door has sealant that is painted over.  Eventually the paint fails and that must be when ours started to leak.  The second photo is the inside of that joint, water ran in here pretty good, through a very small crack in the paint.  The vertical seal also showed cracking.

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WillLloyd

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Re: Maintenance to prevent leaks
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2020, 08:24:34 am »
There was no factory sealant in the joint behind the gutter spout.  Huge soapy bubbles formed here.  During a heavy rain I could see where water could overflow the spout and get into the joint.  I can also see the spout backing up and spilling water down the side of the slide, we have had water run past the slide before.  I plugged the back end of the spout with duct seal putty.

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WillLloyd

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Re: Maintenance to prevent leaks
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2020, 08:25:11 am »
One of our lights was slightly loose.  Originally I thought this was the source of the leaks until we resealed the lights and the leaks continued.  I also sealed the screws securing the awning and the vertical seam.

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WillLloyd

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Re: Maintenance to prevent leaks
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2020, 08:25:41 am »
The backside of this seam is hard to see due to the slide and the awning.  We had bubbles on both sides forming when we checked for leaks, you couldn’t really see the source so resealed both sides.

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fandj

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Re: Maintenance to prevent leaks
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2020, 09:04:54 am »
WillLloyd, thanks for taking the time to document areas you found that either already has or potentially could leak.  As you point out the leak damage goes unnoticed until cosmetic or more severe structural damage is already done.  Your post certainly highlights the need to regularly inspect, repair, and perform preventative maintenance in insuring our Motorhomes are adequately sealed to prevent moisture intrusion.


Once you take your PC back to the factory a follow up post of what repair was performed to repair the damage and if they found other areas of missing or damaged sealants that could result in leaks would be most welcome.  Like you I have used non Silicone ProFlex sealant for joints on vertical sides.  It would be helpful to know what the factory uses on the various joints.  The common consensus is no sealants will adhere properly to previous surfaces where Silicone was used unless thoroughly removed.  It would be helpful to know if the factory uses Silicone.


Sharing information as you have done in your posts here is the main reason I find this Forum so helpful.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2020, 10:39:17 am by fandj »

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Engineerlt

Re: Maintenance to prevent leaks
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2020, 11:00:41 am »
Hello Will
Thanks for the information and pictures of the areas where you have discovered leaks. I have been chasing leaks on my coach ever since I have got it.  Trying to stay one step ahead of damage from water intrusion. However it appears that in the future I will be changing the flooring out, not sure that laminate was a good choice at this point.  I was told it was a Pergo product, definitely not going back with it. I was wondering if you are going to change to a different flooring material, or just stay with what you have?

Lance

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Joseph

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Re: Maintenance to prevent leaks
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2020, 11:09:28 am »
What did you end up using to develop interior pressure to find the leaks? Its probably the only way to find them all. Also what did you find as a good way to remove the old caulking?


I think going over every seam needs to be a yearly maintenance routine. Theres so much flexing going on as we drive down the road there's bound to be issues eventually.

I guess this is the one issue where the Coach house design has everyone beat. I wish they didn't have the other short falls but I guess there's no perfect unit.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2020, 11:26:46 am by Joseph »

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WillLloyd

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Re: Maintenance to prevent leaks
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2020, 08:22:51 am »
Some follow-up:

The areas I pointed out are areas we had leaks.  You need to keep after every joint on the RV, once you start it feels like there are more joints than in a 750 piece puzzle…

I don’t think any of the sealant is silicon.  I say this because every joint I addressed had body paint on it, I don’t think the paint would have adhered to silicone.  Some of it appears to be like lap seal, maybe the non-sag type, and some (the white blob) is a hard rubberized type sealant.  Either way, they were both painted.

I did not remove the factory sealant where it had body paint on it.  I just cleaned it very good, and using masking tape applied new sealant over it.  It almost looks better than factory.  Our rig is grey so I used black everywhere.  They also make a clear sealant which would work good on other colors, and maybe that is what I should have used??

As you get closer to the roof area I think it is all lap seal.  I removed the old sealant there, simply using a screwdriver and then cleaned residue with mineral spirits then alcohol.

Our flooring is no longer manufactured, the factory warned they may not have enough to repair (but I think I found some old stock on eBay).  They also said they don’t do laminate anymore, wonder why….  Now they use a marine vinyl.  The problem is, the floor is the first thing they install, everything else is built on the floor.  So to replace, they have to cut it out, install new, and I guess hide cuts using trim.  Not really what I want to look at.  I think this decision will be made by the availability and the insurance company, I’m torn either way.

At first I tried to pressurize using the dash HVAC, that did not work.  I tried briefly to reverse the Fantastic Vent fans but they don’t simply reverse due to the 3-speed switch and frankly I didn’t have the patience to start another project to figure it out.  Since we already had the wall panels removed, we used a leaf blower to test the areas we know leaked.  This worked good but would not work on areas you don’t have access to (behind walls).  So how do you test on a rig that is not disassembled?  Not sure, maybe the vent fans will work, or maybe need a high volume fan that can create enough pressure to make bubbles with some kind of door replacement panel?  Let me know if you figure it out…..

The real problem is that virtually none of these areas that leaked could be identified without soapy water.  And I know that I am not recaulking every one of these joints every year.  So what’s wrong with the Coach House?

The issue is there is not really a better choice on the market, believe me, I looked.  I still can’t believe this is what the industry has to offer and people don’t stop buying them even though they are all a total POS.

Still not a happy camper.

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Joseph

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Re: Maintenance to prevent leaks
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2020, 10:40:58 am »
Will, thank you for the info and I admit I wouldn't be a happy camper either.  I'm still trying to come up with ways to pressurize the MH to check for leaks. Like you mentioned a leaf blower or fan to wondering if I could do it with a large air compressor.

I had mentioned the coach house. They have the one piece shell which seems pretty trick and up till recently I had only seen them going down the road, never really up close and personal. This past trip I had the opportunity to look over a 27xl that was only a year old. So the one piece shell is nice, that's it as far as I was concerned. There is no macerator and darn near no outside storage of any significance. You want a BBQ along, plan on storing it in a toad or inside your MH. That alone was a deal killer for me. Went inside and it was very nice, seemed well built but no better than PC. The drawer construction etc appeared to be the same quality. So you get a kewl one piece shell design on the exact same Ford Chassis with no real outside storage, no macerator that costs a LOT more money.  I simply wasn't impressed.


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2 Lucky

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Re: Maintenance to prevent leaks
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2020, 10:50:31 am »
To pressurize the coach would it not work to just run the cab dash vent fan on high? That blows a lot of air.

My guess is that with even just that there will be bubbles at all of the roof vents and windows (older sliding type)

Dougn
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Joseph

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Re: Maintenance to prevent leaks
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2020, 04:28:34 pm »
I have 2 of the higher speed exhaust fans that can be reversed.  Maybe with that and the dash but I’m not sure it will be enough

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2 Lucky

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Re: Maintenance to prevent leaks
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2020, 04:59:46 pm »
Plus, air being forced from the inside may not respond the same as water driven in from the outside.
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catsaplenty

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Re: Maintenance to prevent leaks
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2020, 09:03:38 pm »
WillLloyd, your posting and pictures scare the stuffing  out of me.  Playing the try to find the leaks game has been an issues starting when it was new..  With the change in the slide mechanism for 2017, I had the seal design issues on top of the body joints and around the lights. At the time I was deciding which to buy, the "rain room" at Nexus was a plus for them - each unit was put thru high pressure water sprays to check for leaks (though how many might have been in hidden places is certainly a question).   I am not up for opening the wall by myself but I guess I better find someone to look at that to make sure those early elusive leaks haven't left that kind of mess hiding in mine.  Sorry for your trouble.  Like others, I will be watching for updates.

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Sarz272000

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Re: Maintenance to prevent leaks
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2020, 08:51:04 am »
Idea
If you want to find leaks one may be able to remove the generator hour counter meter and insert some blowing device in it to test for leaks.  This would work for seam areas on driver’s side only.  There is insulation in the wall FYI. 

First thing I did when I purchased my 2010 2551 was seal all seams.  I used dicor on roof. I used 3M–4000 UV Polyether Adhesive Sealant, Black on vertical seams.  Other PC owners recommended the 3M 4000.  It was easier to apply and holding up well after two years.  I pushed the sealant using a chalk gun which gave a nice neat seal without any mess.

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/3m--4000-uv-polyether-adhesive-sealant-black-10-oz-cartridge--11657376

Regarding CoachHouse, we looked at used one and the exterior paint didn’t hold up well.  It appeared to be bubbling and not sticking well.  This may be due to lack of care by owner versus systematic problem.  I agree with Joseph about macerator.  After having one I wouldn’t want an RV without one. Inside also felt very tight. The twin beds are however longer which is a plus. The slide system is excellent as well.  I also heard some internal parts, like faucets and such, are hard to find to replace. 
The other RV worth considering is Lazy Daze.  Considered those but after seeing a picture where the structure is wood I quickly backed off.  It would be too difficult to maintain in Michigan with the wood frame and flat roof unless I had inside storage.  My wife thinks they are ugly.  But when I was in a 31IB it sure felt like home. Maybe some day.

Ron S