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Sani-con and electric valves not working

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flei

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Sani-con and electric valves not working
« on: April 03, 2020, 12:22:08 pm »
Although I doubt I will ever use the Sani-con system, I'm going over my new-to-me 2007 PC2350 and trying to put everything in order. Neither of the switches for my grey or black tank valves work (lights do not light, valves do not move), nor does the "pump" switch on the Sani-con panel seem to activate anything.

I looked for a breaker/fuse on the main electrical panel but none were labeled as connected to that system (and all were fine). I crawled under and looked around and all the wires seem connected. I read on the forum that there is an inline fuse for the pump, but I did not look for that since it would not account for no power to the valves (or so I think). The owner's manual from Thetford was not helpful in troubleshooting this.

Anyone have any idea why there is no power to the valves or pump?
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existence.- A. Einstein

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donc13

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Re: Sani-con and electric valves not working
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2020, 03:42:02 pm »
Is the inside switch (in the doorway on the side) to cutoff the battery on or off?   Are the coach batteries charged and connected? Are you plugged into 120 or on batteries only?
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flei

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Re: Sani-con and electric valves not working
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2020, 05:21:54 pm »
Is the inside switch (in the doorway on the side) to cutoff the battery on or off?   Are the coach batteries charged and connected? Are you plugged into 120 or on batteries only?
Plugged into 120v house current. Switch by the door is on as well.
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existence.- A. Einstein

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donc13

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Re: Sani-con and electric valves not working
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2020, 07:20:43 am »
Is the inside switch (in the doorway on the side) to cutoff the battery on or off?   Are the coach batteries charged and connected? Are you plugged into 120 or on batteries only?
Plugged into 120v house current. Switch by the door is on as well.

There are circuit breakers that on a 25(51/52) that are under the passenger side bed.   On a 2350, I have no idea where they may be.

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2 Lucky

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Re: Sani-con and electric valves not working
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2020, 08:11:37 am »
These are 12volt items, made to work when not plugged in to 110. It will be a fuse if that is the issue, they are in the same location as the circuit breakers, usually under a little plate. If there is an inline fuse, it may be all wrapped in tape to "protect" it. Get a multi meter or a simple 12v tester to see if you have juice to the switches. That is usually the best place to begin if the fuses are good.

That said, both the sani-con and the electric valves are prone to be problematic. Wire connections can become corroded. The sanicon can freeze up if unused or become jammed by crud. There is a rubber plug in the end of it, remove it and with a sturdy flat blade screw driver try to turn it. I've gotten mine to operate by doing this with the switch on.

If there is no noise when the valves are operated, there is likely no power. Some folks remove the valve motors all together and operate them manually. Many abandon the whole thing because of minor issues. I personally love it all and will keep it operational, but I added a screw-on dump valve to be able to dump if and when the sanicon fails.
Congrats on you new 2 U PC and keep having fun with the process.
Dougn
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Sani-con and electric valves not working
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2020, 08:14:42 am »
We have yet to experience a total power loss with our 2007 2350's sanicon system so I have no suggestions other than what has been already shared.

I am not sure why this is in my head, but make sure your chassis battery is also hooked up and charged.  Something in my head says the sanicon system in our model year may get powered by the chassis battery.  I remember something being odd about power when I replaced the macerator detailed here. http://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php/topic,2086.0.html
« Last Edit: April 04, 2020, 08:16:37 am by Ron Dittmer »
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2 Lucky

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Re: Sani-con and electric valves not working
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2020, 08:32:32 am »
Also try to find if there is a ground wire to the frame somewhere back there. A broken or crusty ground wire will nix it too.
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fandj

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Re: Sani-con and electric valves not working
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2020, 09:11:40 am »
The following is a photo and notes I have for our 2016 PC2552.  It may help in troubleshooting your problem.


The top mini breaker (50 amp) is for the battery feed. The second breaker (40 amp) is the charge breaker. The third (20 amp) with black wires is the macerator pump breaker. The fourth (20 amp) with the brown wires is the slide out breaker. The fifth (20 amp) with the green wire is to the electric mini sofas. The black cube relay controls the macerator pump. The 10 amp latching controller turn the water pump on and off from multiple location.

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flei

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Re: Sani-con and electric valves not working
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2020, 10:35:44 am »
 (WH)

Thanks for all the suggestions and your efforts to help.

I called the prior owner (who was the second owner) last night and he said he had never used the system and just dumped like a conventional RV. He said he just manually pulled the black and grey tank valves.

I'm a little embarrassed that after crawling under and investigating further, I found that both electrical valves have been deactivated and turned into manual valves (no electrical connections, no gears etc.). Yesterday I had inspected only the wiring behind the panel with the switches etc.. I won't bother trying to fix or replace those. I then ran 12V direct to the sani-con pump (macerator?) and it did not come on, I tried to move it with a screwdriver, etc. and nothing, so I assume it is dead. Not going to replace that either! 

I will make extension handles for the valves so i don't have to crawl under the rig to activate them, and will just dump the good old-fashioned way through a stinky-slinky. 
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existence.- A. Einstein

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Re: Sani-con and electric valves not working
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2020, 12:21:24 pm »
(WH)

Thanks for all the suggestions and your efforts to help.

I called the prior owner (who was the second owner) last night and he said he had never used the system and just dumped like a conventional RV. He said he just manually pulled the black and grey tank valves.

I'm a little embarrassed that after crawling under and investigating further, I found that both electrical valves have been deactivated and turned into manual valves (no electrical connections, no gears etc.). Yesterday I had inspected only the wiring behind the panel with the switches etc.. I won't bother trying to fix or replace those. I then ran 12V direct to the sani-con pump (macerator?) and it did not come on, I tried to move it with a screwdriver, etc. and nothing, so I assume it is dead. Not going to replace that either! 

I will make extension handles for the valves so i don't have to crawl under the rig to activate them, and will just dump the good old-fashioned way through a stinky-slinky.
It probably didn't work when the prior owner got it.  Stinky slinky works always and is much faster, gravity never fails. The macerater is worth having if you need to defy gravity, as I do in my parking area. Nice to have the option.
Riding the fine line between bravery and stupidity since 1952.

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flei

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Re: Sani-con and electric valves not working
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2020, 08:51:33 am »
The following is a photo and notes I have for our 2016 PC2552.  It may help in troubleshooting your problem.


The top mini breaker (50 amp) is for the battery feed. The second breaker (40 amp) is the charge breaker. The third (20 amp) with black wires is the macerator pump breaker. The fourth (20 amp) with the brown wires is the slide out breaker. The fifth (20 amp) with the green wire is to the electric mini sofas. The black cube relay controls the macerator pump. The 10 amp latching controller turn the water pump on and off from multiple location.

BTW, thanks very much FANDJ for the photo and description. I'm surprised each PC does not come with schematics or even any detailed description of the electrical system.  On mine even the fuse/breaker box labels are mostly illegible. I'm going to at some point need to try to trace all the wiring and figure out what goes where; I expect that will be something of a hassle.  . 
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existence.- A. Einstein

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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Sani-con and electric valves not working
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2020, 11:06:12 am »
flei,

I admit I never dug into the main wiring of my PC, only peripheral circuitry to make specific modifications to things like the battery shield, stove hood, and the blanket change to LED lighting.  I shy away from core changes for fear of unforeseen issues.  Features like the sanicon system, I'll repair before changing, but that is my thinking to this day.  Maybe later, I will develop a different RV maintenance strategy.

Funny, I never even seen in my PC, that bank of diodes or whatever they are.  Maybe I have them, just never stumbled on them.
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flei

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Re: Sani-con and electric valves not working
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2020, 11:23:36 am »
flei,

I admit I never dug into the main wiring of my PC, only peripheral circuitry to make specific modifications to things like the battery shield, stove hood, and the blanket change to LED lighting.  I shy away from core changes for fear of unforeseen issues.  Features like the sanicon system, I'll repair before changing, but that is my thinking to this day.  Maybe later, I will develop a different RV maintenance strategy.

Funny, I never even seen in my PC, that bank of diodes or whatever they are.  Maybe I have them, just never stumbled on them.
I'm not planning to change anything about any of the wiring or electrical systems- that is all way beyond my skill level!  I still would like to know how it is all wired so that I can troubleshoot if something comes up.  "That bank of diodes" that FANDJ posted are, I think, actually fuses/breakers/relays, and in my 2007 2350 they are screwed to the wall in the cabinet to the left of the converter/inverter remote control panel.


The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existence.- A. Einstein

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fandj

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Re: Sani-con and electric valves not working
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2020, 01:24:11 pm »
The breakers and relays in the photo I posted previously are mounted underneath the passenger side bed near the converter.  Typically the breakers are mounted in a horizontal row.  Since when we ordered our 2552 I had Phoenix install a Samsung 2000 watt pure sine wave inverter in lieu of their standard unit the vertical arrangement layout works a little better.  I would assume (donít know for sure) the wire colors and breaker amp ratings as listed in my earlier post would be the same for all PC units no matter the mounting orientation.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2020, 01:33:35 pm by fandj »

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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Sani-con and electric valves not working
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2020, 09:13:50 pm »
Funny with all I do with our PC, I am not familiar with all the main electrical stuff, and hope I never have a need to.  :lol

If those are fuses or breakers, I wonder why.  There is a main 110V breaker panel with 12V fuses.  Why not keep it all together, with easy access to reset breakers or replace fuses?

Here is my 110V breaker/12V fuse panel.  Why the extra?  I admit I am a dummy concerning my PC's power distribution requirements.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2020, 09:20:04 pm by Ron Dittmer »
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