2351D bed improvement

Thanks for your input. It leads me to one question - how sturdy is the table when you eat off from it; does it wobble to the point of concern that it may tip over?

Hi, Grampa 17 -

My first time posting/asking questions so we’ll see how it goes...

Great post on your part as far as photos and explanation! In our situation it’s exactly what we need to know! My husband and I are seriously considering the 2351D. As a matter of fact, tomorrow may by our ‘D’ day, so to speak.😉

You mentioned that in your mod you were able to keep the sheet on the mattress when folding it up, as in photo #2. Am I correct in assuming that leaving the sheet on when folding it (as in photo#1) to bring the slide in is not possible? In other words, would all bedding have to come off to bring the slide in on travel days?

When we travel we move quite often so we were hoping to find a 25’ rig with a bed we didn’t have to make up every night and still have decent living space. From your experience, how do you feel this unit fits into that scenario overall?

Something else you said - you fold up the bed during the day “to give more space in the bedroom.” Is that because, if the bed is down/flat, the bathroom or back wall cabinets are difficult to access?

Assuming (correct me if I’m wrong) you and your wife both use the shower, may I get an opinion from each of you on the bathroom as far as shower size, as well as general roominess using the toilet and lavatory. My husband is 6’ 3”, 190#, and I am 5’ 7”, 120#. I’m sure I’d do okay in the shower, but concerned for hubby. The bathroom, overall, appears to be a little cramped...?

We rarely eat out when on the road, so a user-friendly galley is a must for us. Your thoughts welcome on that subject also.

Any, and all, observations, likes, dislikes you and your wife have on the 2351D would be appreciated.
Thanks for your help!
RMP’49

RMP,

I’ll try to answer all of your questions.

Re: sheets I’ve posted so many photos I’m not sure exactly which two you are ferreting to, but assuming they are the last two, yes with the factory stock mattress you can leave the sheets on and fold the bottom half over.  You can even leave a light blanket on and fold it over.  With my mod you can leave the sheet on but we pull the light blanket off, fold it and toss the blanket and pillow on top of the folded mattress before flipping the wooden frame over.

Our travel scenario is the same as yours.  It is unusual for us to stay at one location more than a couple days and like you we wanted as compact of a unit as possible.  I can say that we are are very happy with the this floor plan.   I’m not as tall as your husband, but we still wanted at least a queen bed.  With either the stock mattress or my mod it takes maybe 2-3 minutes to setup or tear down the bed.  As you probably know there were several things I didn’t like about the stock mattress, one of which is that the bottom 8 inches isn’t supported.  It makes getting into bed, or sitting on the edge very annoying.  Plus, the height issue was giving us really bad backaches....

Re: folding it during the day... it isn’t entirely necessary, but with the bed down it limits how far the bathroom door can open.  For people with some thickness to them, like myself, it’s a bit of a tight squeeze.  And as you mention it’s more difficult to access the back cabinets.  My wife prefers the bed down so she can lay down during the day, so oftentimes we do leave the bed down all the time.

Re: the galley, everything 2 frazzled stated applies.. We’re like you and rarely eat out.  We find the galley adequate - but we just make simple meals.  The microwave, stove and fridge are very nice.

Re the bathroom:  your husband will be fine in the shower girth wise. :-). I’m shorter and weigh about the same and I find it very usable.  His height will be the biggest issue.  If you order one be sure and get the extended height shower dome - which we have.   The bathroom is one of my wife’s main concerns in a motor home and we both find it reasonably comfortable.  Again your husbands height will be the main concern.  There is a decent amount of space between the stool and the wall, but your husband might find it a bit confining.

As you may have read this is our eighth motor home, I spent many months deciding on this unit because I had very specific things I wanted.  Like you I wanted a compact unit no more than 25 ft.  I wanted a heavy-duty chassis and top-notch quality.  I’ve told my wife many times that I am extremely pleased with the decision to get this particular unit.   It’s very solid on the road, drives very nice and I’ve been extremely happy with the quality.  Having said all of that, the PC units have the lowest ceiling height of all of the units I considered.  With your husband’s height, if you haven’t already I recommend you visit any PC model you can find in person to see how he feels about the ceiling height.

If you buy a PC I highly recommend the Liquid Springs.  They are an expensive option but they make a substantial difference in the ride.  I also really appreciate the leveling jacks.  We can pull in and be ready to relax in less than 10 minutes.

I hope this helps

Best regards.

Thanks for your input. It leads me to one question - how sturdy is the table when you eat off from it; does it wobble to the point of concern that it may tip over?

We had developed the bad habit of eating on our laps before we ever bought the RV so we only used the Phoenix table a few times. When we used it, it was solid, no concerns on tipping.

We saw this table at a travel club reunion https://smile.amazon.com/Coleman-Pack-Away-Adjustable-Folding-Camping/dp/B002YXR766/ref=sr_1_2?crid=AN4T8P87GWGF&dchild=1&keywords=coleman+table+folding&qid=1578482636&sprefix=Coleman+table%2Caps%2C183&sr=8-2 and quickly ordered one. The Phoenix table is now in storage and this one straps right in to the same place in the wardrobe. We most often use half the folding table and it could be tipped if you aren't careful (more from knocking it with a hip when it is in use than just wobbling over.) It's narrow so we can keep it in front of the couch for eating or computer work and move it between the cab seats or flip it upside down on the bed to get it out of the way. We hooked the two halves together recently for game play and it was very solid.

........may I get an opinion from each of you on the bathroom as far as shower size, as well as general roominess using the toilet and lavatory. My husband is 6’ 3”, 190#, and I am 5’ 7”, 120#. I’m sure I’d do okay in the shower, but concerned for hubby. The bathroom, overall, appears to be a little cramped...?

We rarely eat out when on the road, so a user-friendly galley is a must for us. Your thoughts welcome on that subject also.

Our 2007 2350 has the same bathroom and galley as a new 2350, 2351, and 2351D.  Here is my input after owning our PC for nearly 13 years now.

You husband being 6'-3" tall, I cannot recommend any Phoenix Cruiser model.  The bathroom will be the worst of his complaint, but even out on the open floor, he will never be able to stand up straight.  If he wears a pair of hiking shoes, it gets worse yet.  Back inside the bathroom, consider that the ceiling is lower there because the roof is domed, sloping downward to the sides.  I am 5'-11" 180 pounds, and I do fine.  I am fortunate to have a head of hair.  With shoes on, I feel low hanging items like light fixtures and a/c unit.  They gently move the hair on the top of my head.  Add 4" to my height (to 6'-3") and I would have serious head clearance trouble.

Regarding the galley.  As 2 Frazzled stated, the sink-stove base cabinet is a module, used in many different models.  The basic design dates back 17 years or more with drawer changes introduced in 2007 that remain to this day, the right side drawers and pull-out cutting board are behind a cabinet door.

With our 2007 2350, some years ago I replaced the 5 small drawers and pull-out cutting board, with 3 full-width extra-deep drawers.  I measured the before and after square inches of the drawers.  I increased drawer storage by 85%, a very significant increase.  You can read about the project by CLICKING HERE which includes pictures for visual clarity.

Thanks y’all for the info! Much appreciated!

If I may, one more question - how do you like the Truma Combi system? We’ve heard there may be issues with the amount of hot water capacity. Read it was difficult to get enough hot water for one shower, let alone two. What has been your experience been?

After owning a unit with a Truma AquaGo on-demand heater, we assumed anything named Truma would be ‘on-demand’. After speaking with a Truma customer service rep, here is what my husband learned: it is a tank-type water heater with a very small 2.75 gallon tank. The rep said that for a shower we need to put it on ‘boost’ for 1/2hr. prior to taking the shower. But we could only use the ‘boost’ setting twice in 1 hour.
They said ‘boost’ setting gives about 6 gallons of hot water.

However, the increased capacity is only due to the fact that you’ll use a greater mix of cold water during your shower. You still only have a 2.75 gallon tank!

An unknown is the flow rate of a PC shower head. If you assume 1.5 GPM, you are still only going to have 4 minutes of hot water available.

By the way, my husband knows a little about water usage - he owns a plumbing, heating, cooling business. After loving the Truma AquaGo On-Demand RV Water Heater, we see the Combi as a step backward, a step we do not wish to take.

If this info only raises more questions, my hubby would gladly attempt to answer them. Guess I answered my own question, and maybe shed some light on the situation for you. 😉

After owning a unit with a Truma AquaGo on-demand heater, we assumed anything named Truma would be ‘on-demand’. After speaking with a Truma customer service rep, here is what my husband learned: it is a tank-type water heater with a very small 2.75 gallon tank. The rep said that for a shower we need to put it on ‘boost’ for 1/2hr. prior to taking the shower. But we could only use the ‘boost’ setting twice in 1 hour.
They said ‘boost’ setting gives about 6 gallons of hot water.

However, the increased capacity is only due to the fact that you’ll use a greater mix of cold water during your shower. You still only have a 2.75 gallon tank!

An unknown is the flow rate of a PC shower head. If you assume 1.5 GPM, you are still only going to have 4 minutes of hot water available.

By the way, my husband knows a little about water usage - he owns a plumbing, heating, cooling business. After loving the Truma AquaGo On-Demand RV Water Heater, we see the Combi as a step backward, a step we do not wish to take.

If this info only raises more questions, my hubby would gladly attempt to answer them. Guess I answered my own question, and maybe shed some light on the situation for you. 😉

Everything you have stated is exactly right.    Having used it for about three weeks now and for quite a few showers I can say that it's not all that bad.  We discovered by trial and error exactly what you stated.  Put it on boost and wait 20-30 minutes then get in.  If you wait too long it goes off of boost and the water starts cooling down.   You won't take long hot showers with it, but after getting used to it we found that we could take back to back showers if we turned the flow off at the shower head while washing.  On the air side it does a fantastic job of heating the coach.   I kept it set at 68 degrees and we were very comfortable.   With the electric option it is extremely efficient on gas.  I filled the propane tank before leaving and after 3 weeks of showers and heating in mid 20's-40 degree evenings and a fair amount of driving with the fridge on gas it is still registering full.  I even went out and checked the gauge on the tank to make sure I wasn't getting a false reading.

After loving the Truma AquaGo On-Demand RV Water Heater, we see the Combi as a step backward, a step we do not wish to take.

I agree that compared to a Truma AquaGo On-Demand RV Water Heater, it would seem a step back.  The primary reason for the Truma Combi is compactness.  The only reason to use it is to save space.  It is used primarily in Van conversions where space is extremely limited.  PC told me that they didn't have the space in the 2351D to install a separate furnace and water heater so they used the Combi.  After having used it for 3 weeks continually now, I am overall happy with it.  I would certainly prefer an on-demand water heater, but I think it was a good decision on the part of PC to save the space on this floor plan.  Also I am of the school of leaving the grey tank valve closed until practically full.   With such small holding tanks on the 2351D if we took long showers I'd be dumping the grey tank every day.  Now that we've figured out how to use it properly the small water tank isn't much of an issue.  The main thing is to have a shutoff valve on the shower head.

Grampa 17, all true! You sound extremely pleased with your rig all around. Bob White even mentioned the complimentary letter you sent to the company to express such. PC’s are truly a quality vehicle!
 
Im sure you’d agree that all rigs have pros and cons, and, when finding the right one for each person/couple, it comes down to which pro and which con to live with or reject. Unfortunately, for us the Truma Combi was a deal breaker. After hiking some days, we know we look forward to a reasonably (in RV terms) long, hot shower, for both of us, just before retiring for the evening. I guess we just need a little more pampering than you and yours do. 😉

Thank you so much for all your input. It was so valuable in helping us come to our decision!
Happy travels!
Blessings!
Rhonda

RMP,

I agree with everything you said too.  We came off a coach with on-demand water and it was great.  For any coach where that is a viable option I would always choose an on-demand system.  I just wouldn't want anyone considering a floor plan that requires a combi to rule that floor plan out on that basis only.  Given what it's designed for it performs very good.