Batteries

Dyna, so your saying I’m doing something wrong by accepting what they push?  I suppose you turn down free refills at your local resturant or mc Donald’s even though it cuts into their bottom line as well.  To each their own.

Do you buy from Amazon?   I do , even knowing they strong arm their suppliers into making smaller margins and taking returns as well.  Just like Costco.

Yeah... um.. free refills of my sweet tea at lunch is JUST like returning batteries. What you are doing is more like when I have a buddy working behind the counter dumping extra food in the bag. HE says its ok... must be Ok..


So far your source for warranty information on Costco Batteries is the salesperson. Wonder what corporate has to say?

At costco, the deep cycle batteries are considered 'Specialty Automotive Batteries' per this link - https://www.costco.com/automotive-batteries.html

Scroll down to the two tabs ' FAQ ' and ' Warranty and Returns'. Clicking on the "Warranty and Returns' tab reveals the terms of the Battery Warranty at Costco.

Free One Year return?

If a passenger car battery is used in a diesel vehicle (not including passenger automobiles), truck more than one ton, lawn tractor, snowmobile, or recreational, service or marine vehicle, etc., the limited warranty is reduced to a free-replacement period of six months or half the standard length of that battery.

Return it for ANY reason?

If there is a defect in material or workmanship (not merely the battery being discharged) this limited warranty provides that upon return of the battery to any Costco Wholesale warehouse, the battery will be replaced, at purchase price, excluding fees and taxes, and be refunded, according to the life of the battery warranty as stated on the battery label.

Hm.. You were returning yours just because 'new ones were better'. Not for either of the terms stated above. Just for natural aging of a battery - or as you stated
 ""  As the tech pointed out. He has never seen deep cycle batteries that hadn’t lost some reserve within that year. ""

Even 'The Tech' states that some degradation of a battery happens within a year. A natural progression of battery life, definitely influenced by the care the batteries receive. Not 'A defect in materials or workmanship'. No more than your tires tread wearing out with use is a defect in the rubber. 

So yeah, some people might see what you are doing as 'wrong'. I hope you understand why this may be. And Please.. correct me if I am wrong. I have learned far more from being wrong than right. 

One they are not car batteries,they are dc. But I’m not going to waste my breath. It’s not one tech, it’s every costco they can be returned to.  I asked at a second costco before buying if an extended warranty was available.  Received the same reply by their customer service desk. So yes, I stand by it. I refuse to shoot a gift horse.

Everyone lives in glass houses. Then again maybe your the one that doesn’t.

Sorry I was a bit harsh that last post... There might have been a beer or two consumed on Superbowl night. 

LOL... not sure what you mean by 'not car batteries, they are DC'. I am only familiar with DC batteries.

I stand by the statements posted. Find me a link with written terms of the return policy you are using, and I will gladly apologize and stand corrected.

We also have a Costco membership, I am going to ask for a written copy of their battery return policy next time we are there. Be interesting to see their response.

Sorry, dc meaning deep cycle .      So your under the thought that your batteries still work as new after a year?   Mine never have.  As long as they offer warranty returns for items that have not met given expectations I will use it and stand by that. IE , buying flowers that cost me around 70 dollars which is about the same as a battery. On the morning of the 4th day they were toast. Now many will say we had three days of enjoyment and they were going to die anyway and would never return them. I did as they’d  led me to believe they would last much longer.  And the shop agreed with me that they did not meet expectations.

Most people never use warranties or return policies and that’s ok. I look for every offer and expect them to back it. Most people don’t even look at warranties on products they buy. IE Ridgid offers lifetime on their power tools including batteries. BUT you have to register each item. I do and I’ve gotten replacement batteries for my drill. Most wouldn’t bother. Lowes offered me an extended warranty on a gas leaf blower for around 9 bucks. The manufactuer had a special offering free extended warranty if registered within so long etc. in the end I got a 7 year full replacement warranty on something that gets heavy use and will be lucky to last 4 to 5 years. So I know I’ll get all my money back or a new unit. A friend bought the same unit after seeing mine didn’t follow the guide lines and ended up with a 2 year .  He doesn’t care either as he’d never return it.  I’m that odd duck that will.

Deep Cycle.. duh. Yeah, I was dense on that one. D'oH! Been studying a lot on wiring lately.


And no, I never stated that 1 YO batteries would be working 'as new' after a yeah. Actually, I think I posted the opposite didnt I? 

I Do agree 100% with your opinions on warranties and returns. As you can imagine, I am one that reads the warranty like you do.

The flowers were an interesting take.. I put ~$50 a week buying bulk and doing our house and two offices. Fresh bulk, yeah I would expect a good week for life, generally speaking. For a $70 made to order bouquet I would expect similar. The pre-mades from the bin.... lucky to get three days. 

But still the fact stands - returning batteries to Costco after a year just because the employees let you... Enjoy it while it lasts I guess.  I would like to see *ANYTHING* written from the company to endorse that policy. Still doesn't seem right, and it isn't from what I find.

Gonna let it go. Beverage?  Hope we can still camp together someday.    

Volt.  Of course, I’m not offended or upset. I’m old with thick skin. I’ll buy the first round

Solar trickle charger/battery maintainer question

What's the optimum (unregulated) solar trickle  charger wattage needed to effectively maintain a fully charged 850 CCA main (starter) battery? For comparison, an  AC powered Battery Tender is rated at 9W regulated output (12v  x .75A).

I recently added a 3.5W Coleman/ Sunpower panel in addition to the 1.5W Chicago Electric /Harbor Freight panel that was NOT doing the job. By utilizing both  always-on cigarette lighter plugs in the dash  I can use the 2  panels in parallel  for  5W total charging output.  Both panels have blocking diodes to prevent nighttime drain and are generating 17.8v each in partial sunlight.  If 5W  proves to be insufficient  I could increase the total  to 7W by  replacing  the 1.5W panel with a 2nd 3.5W panel.

Not sure how useful this would be but I've read 5% per month of self-discharge.  After that you need to determine how much parasitic drain there is which an ammeter should be able to tell you.  Parasitic drain is things connected to the battery that even though they are turned off still draw some power. 

I don't think CCA is going to be much help, you would need to know how many amphours are in the battery then take 5% of that + the parasites then calculate how many watts that is.  Then you have some idea of what you would need to replace on a daily basis.

Solar trickle charger/battery maintainer question

What's the optimum (unregulated) solar trickle  charger wattage needed to effectively maintain a fully charged 850 CCA main (starter) battery? For comparison, an  AC powered Battery Tender is rated at 9W regulated output (12v  x .75A).

I recently added a 3.5W Coleman/ Sunpower panel in addition to the 1.5W Chicago Electric /Harbor Freight panel that was NOT doing the job. By utilizing both  always-on cigarette lighter plugs in the dash  I can use the 2  panels in parallel  for  5W total charging output.  Both panels have blocking diodes to prevent nighttime drain and are generating 17.8v each in partial sunlight.  If 5W  proves to be insufficient  I could increase the total  to 7W by  replacing  the 1.5W panel with a 2nd 3.5W panel.

I work in a retirement community where MANY of the residents use their cars once a week, sometimes less. (Golf carts are used often in the community) Battery tenders are a necessity.  SO many parasitic drains on cars.

I have been researching solar, and it seems a 'charging day' is measured at ~5 hrs.    So to equal a 24/7 plugged in device, one would plan for 4-5 times the output from solar.

So.. if a 9 watt 120V trickle charger met your needs before, I would plan on at least 35 watts of solar to give the equivalent energy input each day. And thats on the 'low' side, 50 might be better.

9 watts x 24 hrs = 216 Wh  from a shore power trickle charger per day
35W x 5 hrs = 175 Wh from solar power per day
50W x 5 hrs = 250Wh per day with a 50W panel

Sure, an optimum location may yield more than 5 hrs of quality time solar charging... but it seems 'those in the know' use 5 hrs a day as an overall average. And also.. too small a panel leaves you with a dead battery. Slightly larger is not going to boil it over. 

I have a 2006 2350, I have yet to put the meter in line with the battery and see what the parasitic drain is. Once i do I will report back.

As far as battery self discharge..

The limiting factor of battery's shelf life is the rate of self-discharge which itself is temperature dependent. VRLA batteries will self-discharge less than 3% per month at 77º F (25º C). Flooded batteries will self-discharge up to 15% per month at 77º F (25º C

source - http://www.trojanbattery.com/tech-support/faq/ scroll down to 'Maintenance' item 1- Shelf Life

Unfortunately, I could find no easy cross reference for CCA to Ah capacity. With my AGM batteries, it rates both, so lets assume a similar 'energy density' to yours for now. - I have 875 CCA at 32*, and 1340Wh of 'power' contained. At a Flooded battery 'maximum' self discharge rate of 15%, it would need ~200Wh a month, or ~7 Wh each day.  But that is kinda 'shooting in the dark' with several assumptions...

With any car/truck newer than ~2000, i would think parasitic drains are a bigger concern than the self discharge. But until I measure...its all educated guessing. 

Test Subject - 2006 E350 model 2350 camper. Stock radio, no power locks, keypad entry or security system. Disconnected start battery from house battery feed.

OK, put an amp meter in line with the battery negative. Initial drain showed was .5A on connection, dropped to .2A continuous. Opening the doors and turning on courtesy lights drew 2.9A , once they timed out it dropped to .2A again.

So.. .2A x 12V = 2.4W  drain measured.  Over 24Hrs, that would be 57.6 Wh per day. Using the 5hr 'solar charging day' standard i would need a 12 Watt panel minimum to keep charge up .

Corrections welcome!   

With an unregulated solar system one would need to be careful to not oversize the panel(s) as the maximum panel voltage could excessively charge the starting battery and/or damage the chassis electrical system.

A regulated system limits the maximum voltage that can be supplied to the battery.  One of the forum members (keelhauler) modified the dash mounted battery switch to allow his main solar panels to maintain charge on both the coach and chassis batteries. You could search and find his post if this is something you are interested in. 

Most regulated solar controller limit output voltage to 15.0 or less in order to prevent damage to appliance control boards.  I do not know but suspect the chassis control computer may also be damaged by higher voltage.  If damaged this would be an expensive item to replace.

And no, I never stated that 1 YO batteries would be working 'as new' after a yeah. Actually, I think I posted the opposite didnt I? 

And it seems that yes indeed... one year old batteries may be better.  never would have thunk it.

Nearly all batteries will not reach full capacity until cycled 10-30 times. A brand new battery will have a capacity of about 5-10% less than the rated capacity.

source - https://www.solar-electric.com/learning-center/batteries-and-charging/deep-cycle-battery-faq.html

Q:  In the 2552 electrical diagram, where would the solar panels fit in? Do they charge the coach batteries with the disconnect switch open? On my previous LTV rig, I opened the disconnect switch with landline attached and the solar panel kept my coach batteries charged nicely. No overcharging.

Volt, I haven’t found it to be the case that one year old batteries Have improved. Quite the opposite, however it may have something to do with where I live. Living in the hot low desert batteries in cars, trucks , what have you have a much shorter life span than they did when I lived coastal. Both of my car batteries have had to be replaced with just over 24 months. Local shops say that’s pretty normal out here. When I lived coastal I typically got 4-5 + years out of a battery in my cars and pickups.

The power out of the solar converter goes directly to the batteries. Switch position does not matter.