Batteries

One thing that can be done to the existing Parallax converter that will help keep it from boiling the batteries is the addition of their temperature monitoring module.

I added one to my rig as soon as I got it.  Simple install, and around $60.  It monitors the battery temperature and adjusts the charging voltage to keep the batteries from boiling.  I really do not know why this is not standard equipment.

Maybe not as good as a PD 4 stage charger but if you are not ready to swap out the converter yet the TempAssure might be a good investment.

Our 10 year old Tripp-Lite inverter has a temperature sensor that is taped to one of the two batteries, sandwiched between the batteries.  I swear that thing never did any good from day #1, but still I make sure it's in place with wire dressed properly......just in-case I am wrong.

Our 10 year old Tripp-Lite inverter has a temperature sensor that is taped to one of the two batteries

Ron, what is the point of having a temperature sensor from the inverter?  I mean, what does it do?  Or is the Tripp-Lite a charger as well?

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Our 10 year old Tripp-Lite inverter has a temperature sensor that is taped to one of the two batteries

Ron, what is the point of having a temperature sensor from the inverter?  I mean, what does it do?  Or is the Tripp-Lite a charger as well?

Hi jatrax,

Yes the Tripp-Lite is a charger and inverter.  It performs both functions.  Doesn't the current day inverter do the same?  I always thought every different inverter that Phoenix installed  since 2006, also charged the batteries.

Yes the Tripp-Lite is a charger and inverter.  It performs both functions.  Doesn't the current day inverter do the same?  I always thought every different inverter that Phoenix installed  since 2006, also charged the batteries.

No, not at all.  There are some converter / inverter units on the market but the majority I see advertised are stand alone.  Certainly nothing Phoenix has used recently is a combo like yours.

My rig uses a Parallax converter / power center and a stand alone Xantrex inverter.  The Xantrex has no charging or converting functionality, pure inverter.

And that explains the temperature sensor, the inverter has no need but the charger portion of the Tripp-Lite is presumably using it to not overcharge the batteries.  Of course I'm just guessing at that.  But the temperature monitor added to my Parallax charger does that.

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Yes the Tripp-Lite is a charger and inverter.  It performs both functions.  Doesn't the current day inverter do the same?  I always thought every different inverter that Phoenix installed  since 2006, also charged the batteries.

No, not at all.  There are some converter / inverter units on the market but the majority I see advertised are stand alone.  Certainly nothing Phoenix has used recently is a combo like yours.

My rig uses a Parallax converter / power center and a stand alone Xantrex inverter.  The Xantrex has no charging or converting functionality, pure inverter.

And that explains the temperature sensor, the inverter has no need but the charger portion of the Tripp-Lite is presumably using it to not overcharge the batteries.  Of course I'm just guessing at that.  But the temperature monitor added to my Parallax charger does that.

Thanks for the detailed explanation jatrax.  That explains all the forum discussions I've read on Xantrex and Parallax.  I had thought Phoenix had been installing different brands of the same functional unit we have.  It never crossed my mind that they were performing dedicated inverting and charging functions.

All these years of these discussions....I feel like a dodo bird.

I had always known the sensor on our rig was a temperature sensor, but given our history with two different sets of 12V batteries, I question it's performance.  Maybe it works well.  Without it, matters might have been much worse with boil-overs.  I will never know now that I have two 6V AGM sealed batteries.  I still use the sensor.

Agree Ron, just because there is a temp sensor there does not mean the unit is using it intelligently.  I had a lengthy discussion with someone at Parallax about the temperature sensor they offer and he was extremely positive about the results, regardless of battery type.  I also have AGM and he still felt the temp sensor would improve both charge state and battery life.  According to him with the temp sensor the Parallax will charge at voltages up to 14.4.  Without it they max out at 13.7 because the charger has no way to know what is happening at the batteries so it plays safe.

Battery charging is also more complicated when multiple inputs are available.  On my rig the batteries can be charged by the alternator, the solar charger or the charger in the Parallax power center.  The Parallax without temp sensor maxs out at 13.7 but with temp sensor will go to 14.4.  The solar charger is more configurable and will go to 14.7 which is the recommended charge voltage for Trojan AGM batteries.  So the only way to actually maximize the charge on my rig is with the solar charger.

Agree Ron, just because there is a temp sensor there does not mean the unit is using it intelligently.  I had a lengthy discussion with someone at Parallax about the temperature sensor they offer and he was extremely positive about the results, regardless of battery type.  I also have AGM and he still felt the temp sensor would improve both charge state and battery life.  According to him with the temp sensor the Parallax will charge at voltages up to 14.4.  Without it they max out at 13.7 because the charger has no way to know what is happening at the batteries so it plays safe.

Battery charging is also more complicated when multiple inputs are available.  On my rig the batteries can be charged by the alternator, the solar charger or the charger in the Parallax power center.  The Parallax without temp sensor maxs out at 13.7 but with temp sensor will go to 14.4.  The solar charger is more configurable and will go to 14.7 which is the recommended charge voltage for Trojan AGM batteries.  So the only way to actually maximize the charge on my rig is with the solar charger.

That is quite interesting.  Thanks for the explanation.

I don't recall the voltage output of our Tripp-Lite but I do recall it is more since I reconfigured it for AGM technology when switching to AGM batteries.  I'll have to pay close attention at next opportunity.  I could do it here at home, but not up to it.  Maybe after I am doing better dealing with a Christmas gift someone gave me...it keeps on giving. 

jas,

Everyone is giving you good advise.

I practice an alternative method with our 2350 stored in our heated garage.

1) Disconnect the hot/red wire from both house and chassis batteries to eliminate any potential drain on them.
2) Using a secondary battery charger, charge the pair of house batteries and also the chassis battery once every-2 to 3 months until the charger says they are full.

I use the secondary battery charger shown below.  Mine has 4, 10, 20 and 40 amp settings.  For battery maintenance during storage periods, I use the low 4 amp setting.  Readout is in amps, not volts, which is what you want.  As the batteries charge up, the number drops lower.  When it hits zero, the charger says "FULL" and stops charging.

I bring the red charger and use it on trips, primarily utilizing the generator.  Our 2007 has the older Tripp-Lite inverter which I do NOT rely on it because I don't know the charging status.  It also charges slower than the red charger.  To limit generator run times, I set the red charger to the 40 amp setting.  No worries when on a trip, but during long term storage, I fear the on-board inverter/charger over-charges the batteries rather than shutting off when the batteries are fully charged.

Ron (and ALL)

when working with auto/golf cart batteries... ALWAYS remove the NEGATIVE cable first!  

You can not accidently "touch" ground with a hot line if you do this.

I've seen people badly burned when they tried to removr the red (positive) cable first and the removal tool touched ground.  The spark caused several of the batteries to explode and douse the folks in sulphuric acid.

Removing ground first means the only place the removal tool can cause a spark is if you touch the positive post with the removal tool  

Once the ground wire is removed, you can touch ANY "12v hot" lead to the chassis and there is no danger... as long as there is NO wire on the negative terminal.

When putting battery cables back on, negative always goes on LAST.

Very good advice Don 

Interesting information and discussion here by all parties !     

Dumb question:  If the generator is running,  what pathway is it taking to run the coach and charge the house battery(s).    Same as shore power  ?

Jim

what pathway is it taking to run the coach and charge the house battery(s).    Same as shore power  ?

In general yes.  Some coaches or trailers have a receptacle that you plug the generator into just like you would plug in the shore power cable.

On Phoenix coaches (all I have seen anyway) there is an ATS or Automatic Transfer Switch in the path.  Both the shore power plug and a feed from the generator go to the ATS.  It has the ability to sense power on both the inputs.  It is programmed to give power from the generator priority, so if it detects power on the generator feed it switches to generator.  So if you only have shore power that is connected to the coach, if you have only generator that is connected to the coach and if you have both then the generator gets connected.

After (or downstream) of the ATS the power goes to the power center / converter and powers the coach and charges the batteries.  The power center does not know or care where the 120 volt power is coming from.

On Phoenix coaches (all I have seen anyway) there is an ATS or Automatic Transfer Switch in the path.  Both the shore power plug and a feed from the generator go to the ATS.  It has the ability to sense power on both the inputs.  It is programmed to give power from the generator priority, so if it detects power on the generator feed it switches to generator.  So if you only have shore power that is connected to the coach, if you have only generator that is connected to the coach and if you have both then the generator gets connected.

MOST helpful  !  I have a 2006 coach without an inverter, and would like to add one.  In the later coaches that do have one, how is the output routed to the coach outlets?

MOST helpful  Grin !  I have a 2006 coach without an inverter, and would like to add one.  In the later coaches that do have one, how is the output routed to the coach outlets?

See this electrical drawing which is basically the same no matter what model you have.

Thanks Keelhauler!

But I think that is a diagram for 2007+ and mine is a 2006.

1) My starting battery is not connected to the coach battery in any way I am aware of. I do not have a dash switch to link them together. (Or if i do... has not been found yet.  We had to get a golf cart between the RV's to jump start the generator this last fest. )

1a) The alternator does not charge my coach battery to my knowledge. Unless I do have the dash switch ...and just have not found it.

2) I dont see the ' Automatic Transfer Switch ' referred to in that diagram, or wiring to accommodate it between the generator and shore power.

I will be spending some time this weekend on the camper, and getting to know the electrical system better.  Thanks again for the help!

In 2006, that switch was an option. However your Ford alternator should still charge your house battery.
Put a digital voltmeter on your house battery, then startup your engine, voltage should go up to 14.2 to 14.7 volts


I don't show the generator/120V power transfer switch. It is automatic as described by Jatrax.
But all the wiring I show in sketch is the same for 2006 except for Inverter & that switch.