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110 Volt Power Questions

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fandj

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110 Volt Power Questions
« on: April 19, 2016, 03:32:49 pm »
I do not have my PC unit yet but I have a question as to 110 volt power.  It is my understanding 110 volt power is available from 3 different sources, (1) shore power from the campground pedestal, (2) generator, and (3) inverter power.   110 volt power can only be provided to one point by one source at any given time to prevent electrical failure.  Am I correct that if the motorhome is connected to shore power that all 110 volt outlets and appliances requiring 110 volt power will be supplied from shore power?  If no shore power is available and the generator is running will all 110 volt outlets and appliances be supplied from the generator?  If neither shore or generator power is available will the inverter supply power to only certain 110 volt outlets (no AC, no microwave, and no 12 volt converter)?

I think I recall reading an automated switch is installed between shore and generator power. my question is if shore power is being supplied can the generator be started and if so does the shore power get disconnected and the generator allowed to supply power?  Is there a similar automated switch that prevents the inverter from supplying any power if either shore or generator power is present?

All these options has my head spinning, can someone explain how these various scenarios are handled? :help

Fred
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Barry-Sue

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Re: 110 Volt Power Questions
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2016, 03:54:20 pm »
Fred

You have all the 120VAC single source combinations correct.  As far as shore power and the generator operation there is a transfer switch that will disconnect the shore power if the generator is started.  A monitor within the inverter will allow the inverter to provide 120VAC only if there is no other source of 120VAC and the inverter is turned on.

The transfer switch for shore power/generator power is located on the angled wall behind the driver's seat.

Barry
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: 110 Volt Power Questions
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2016, 03:58:38 pm »
You ask an interesting question Fred.

Yes, every PC made in the past 10-12 years has a power transfer switch.  It is a gray electrical box, maybe 8" x 8" x 3" tall, typically located in the house, just above the generator.  At least that is where ours is, inside our no-slide front dinette bench seat.

Now you have me scratching my head too......When on pole-power or generator-power, the outlets inside get their power from those two sources via that power transfer switch.  But how 110v from the inverter is disabled, I don't know.  Maybe it's all common, 110v coming from the power transfer switch being back-fed into the 110v output of the inverter.

ADDING:  Oh, I see Barry has an explanation.  He beat my reply by seconds.  So the inverter has the smarts to shut down it's on 110v generation when being supplied by another source.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 04:04:40 pm by ron.dittmer »
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Bruce

Re: 110 Volt Power Questions
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2016, 07:47:01 pm »
In our 2552 the inverter does not supply 110v to the outlets behind the driver's and passenger seats.  The generator does.
The inverter appears to supply 110v to almost all of the other outlets, excluding the microwave oven.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 08:59:28 pm by Bruce and Sharon »
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: 110 Volt Power Questions
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2016, 11:34:50 pm »
Quote from: Bruce and Sharon on April 19, 2016, 07:47:01 pm
In our 2552 the inverter does not supply 110v to the outlets behind the driver's and passenger seats.  The generator does.
The inverter appears to supply 110v to almost all of the other outlets, excluding the microwave oven.
In our 2007-2350-NoSlide, the inverter does not supply 110v power to the outlet under the dinette table.  All other "accessible" outlets get inverted power.  I wished that one outlet did get inverted power for our laptop power supply.  We sit at the table with laptop all the time and have the cord plugged across the isle to get power.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 11:40:11 pm by ron.dittmer »
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Pax

Re: 110 Volt Power Questions
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2016, 10:19:54 am »
There is one more option I didn't realize existed which I just stumbled upon....

I had removed both 6 volt batteries from the battery tray in order to clean and repaint the tray.  While waiting for it to dry I started up the engine and noticed that one of the ceiling lights in the coach turned on.  I hadn't turned off the inverter switch by the door, so apparently the inverter is also supplied by the Ford engine battery when the engine is running (at least when the coach batteries are disconnected) I wonder if this is 'normal' operating mode when the engine is running.  Didn't have time to investigate further.

  - Mike
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randallandchris

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Re: 110 Volt Power Questions
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2016, 12:09:16 pm »
One night Chris was playing the DVD on inverter power and drained the house batteries  so low generator wouldn't start till ran the engine a while but hasn't recurred though she hasn't changed her TV habits.  I'm wondering if source of drain was due to leaving on something like the electric hot water switch, tank heater, or refrigerator on auto/AC.  Does the inverter power any of these?
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fandj

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Re: 110 Volt Power Questions
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2016, 02:19:53 pm »
Mike,

As I just picked up my PC about a week ago I see there is a lot to learn about the unit, particularly the electrical system.  As I understand there is solenoid that connects the engine alternator and battery to the house batteries to provide charging while traveling.  I don't know but I suspect that with the house batteries removed, the engine alternator/battery takes the place of the house battery.  If this is true I would expect the engine system would attempt to supply all 12 volt house loads when the engine is running.

I haven't tried this so I would appreciate an education from anyone as to how the system works.

Fred

« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 02:50:11 pm by fandj »
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Re: 110 Volt Power Questions
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2016, 03:26:53 pm »
Fred

I know  for a fact you are correct in your assumptions.  Last year the person we sold our 2008 PC to had an issue with the batteries not charging when driving the PC.  I spoke with Kermit about the problem and he explained how the house batteries are charged by the van when driving.  When the van is running there is a solenoid that operates. This solenoid connects the coach batteries to the van alternator which charges the batteries/supplies 12VDC to the coach.

Barry
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keelhauler

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Re: 110 Volt Power Questions
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2016, 12:15:03 pm »
What actually happens automatically is when the engine is running power goes through a diode to charge the house batteries, no solenoid involved.
When the engine is not running and you want to charge the engine battery you need to push the little toggle switch to the left of the steering wheel. This pulls in the solenoid and allows your house batteries to charge your engine batteries.

About 5 years ago PC made this switch a momentary toggle switch so it needs to be held. However I replaced my momentary switch with an identical on-off switch that I bought at an auto parts store. It pops into same opening and wires pull off old switch and push on to new switch. 5 minute no tools replacement.

When my RV is stored, since my solar arrays charge my house batteries, I leave the switch on so it also keeps the engine battery charged.
When this switched is turned on your step cannot be left extended as it turns off the step override.
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randallandchris

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Re: 110 Volt Power Questions
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2016, 03:42:08 pm »
Quote from: keelhauler on July 16, 2016, 12:15:03 pm
About 5 years ago PC made this switch a momentary toggle switch so it needs to be held. However I replaced my momentary switch with an identical on-off switch that I bought at an auto parts store. It pops into same opening and wires pull off old switch and push on to new switch. 5 minute no tools replacement.

When my RV is stored, since my solar arrays charge my house batteries, I leave the switch on so it also keeps the engine battery charged.
Would this be recommended if starting battery and house batteries are of different types?  Flooded and AGM for example?

Also any thoughts on my earlier post regarding inadvertent drains using inverter?  Thanks.
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keelhauler

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Re: 110 Volt Power Questions
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2016, 04:55:20 pm »
Quote
Would this be recommended if starting battery and house batteries are of different types?  Flooded and AGM for example?
Voltage is still nominally the same so I don't see this causing a problem.

In fact if you put in AGM house batteries in your RV they will still be charged with the same engine Alternator.
The switch allows you to charge your engine battery and it will still be fully charged using AGM house batteries.
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Barry-Sue

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Re: 110 Volt Power Questions
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2016, 07:21:20 pm »
I wanted to correct a statement I made a few days ago.  I said that
Quote
When the van is running there is a solenoid that operates. This solenoid connects the coach batteries to the van alternator which charges the batteries/supplies 12VDC to the coach.

I misspoke when I used the word solenoid.  It is actually a relay that operates.   I happened to be at the factory today and talked to Kermit about it.  He said it is not a solenoid or diode but a relay.  He stopped using diodes many years ago because he said he had too many failures.  

Barry
« Last Edit: July 18, 2016, 08:33:20 pm by Barry-Sue »
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Re: 110 Volt Shore Power Questions
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2017, 04:47:29 pm »
RV camping at a Music Festival near Austin, TX and available shore power is limited to 110 Volt and generators are not allowed.  I would appreciate suggestions on hook up to 110 and/or how to maximize my house batteries for 6 days. (WH)   
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: 110 Volt Shore Power Questions
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2017, 04:55:18 pm »
Quote from: JOHN on April 13, 2017, 04:47:29 pm
RV camping at a Music Festival near Austin, TX and available shore power is limited to 110 Volt and generators are not allowed.  I would appreciate suggestions on hook up to 110 and/or how to maximize my house batteries for 6 days. (WH)  
You need one of these, called a 30amp to 15amp adaptor.  Understand that you won't be able to do anything else serious with electricity while the a/c unit is running.  When the a/c unit shuts off, focus on battery charging and limit your RV usage to 12V operation during those times when possible.

When trying to maintain our batteries with limited 110V (primarily limited to using the generator) I turn off the inverter because it consumes 12 amps of 12V battery juice when creating 110V energy of which is doing nothing.  I also charge our house batteries using a more efficient secondary charger like the one pictured farther down.   It brings the batteries to full much more quickly than the charger built in the PC.  Because we rarely have 110V available, I run the generator to maintain the batteries, hence I use a much faster battery charger so the generator runs much less.


« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 05:10:37 pm by ron.dittmer »
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