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Bathroom heater vent in 2350

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Doneworking

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Bathroom heater vent in 2350
« on: May 16, 2015, 09:09:36 pm »
The heater outlet (register) in our 2350 is small and is located immediately behind the commode.  It does a poor job of distributing any air in the bathroom area.  Has anyone modified/moved this outlet?  I pulled the mattress and the strand board that supports the mattress and took a look at the pump, a crimped line from the fresh water tank, and this outlet layout.   Fixed the crimp and decided the pump was for another day of adding a small pressure tank to reduce cycling.   To move the heater outlet there are at least three problems: 

                        1.  You just about have to pull the stool.  Not that hard but not that pleasant a task
                        2.  There is very limited space to move the outlet to the right or left sides of the stool, moving it towards the bathroom door as far as possible would be the most effective.
                        3.  Repairing the hole from the previous installation, which would probably just consist of cutting a little square face plate to cover it up.  No big deal....

Anyone done anything like this on their 2350?  On cold mornings, there is just not sufficient and properly distributed air to be effective.   I can't imagine why it was located where it is and what the reasoning was in doing so.


Paul   


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David J. Rotelle

Re: Bathroom heater vent in 2350
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2015, 09:56:47 pm »
Paul,

We have a small electric space heater we set on the floor in the bathroom. It does a great job keeping the bathroom warm and takes up very little room.
We have another small heater we set in the front of the coach. We rarely use our furnace even when the temperature gets well below freezing.
Another reason we like the space heaters is because they are very quiet.
I don't think moving the register in the bathroom is going to make a considerable difference.
Dave
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AMW

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Re: Bathroom heater vent in 2350
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2015, 12:20:07 am »
Agree with Dave.  a small space heater is perfect.  I used one all winter, as the 2100 has no heat vent in the bathroom at all.  Unless I'm dry camping or it's extremely cold, I don't want to use propane. Of course I camp in the south, so my heat gets light use.
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Ann W.
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Doneworking

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Re: Bathroom heater vent in 2350
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2015, 08:35:40 am »
Yep, a small electric heater is perfect and we have carried and used one for years except.............most of our camping, probably 95%, is boondocking.  You simply cannot and do not want to fire up a generator early in the morning in a National Forest or BLM or CoE campground.  That is what you go to those places to avoid:  noise!!   So, the propane heater works great for us.  By the way, a tank of propane lasts us two weeks easy without hookups.  Refrig, water heater, forced air heater all can last a long time with good propane management.

What appealed to us about the 2350 is we can take it where we really want to go and live "off grid" for a couple of weeks at a time.  In the West, virtually all NF/BLM campgrounds are fine with you "dripping gray" because of the long term drought situation.  The big black tank can last two weeks with good management. 

So, when you are at 9000 feet on a July morning and it is 34 degrees, the propane heater gets to be a nice thing to utilize. 

Paul
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AMW

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Re: Bathroom heater vent in 2350
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2015, 09:08:18 am »
Paul, I don't dry camp often like you do, but do have to occasionally use the propane furnace, and I had a problem with the aim of the furnace vents which happened to shoot hot air directly at my dog beds.  Relocating the vents wasn't possible, so I found a solution to aim the air right/left instead of straight ahead.  I found a dryer vent cover at Home Depot and it does the job perfectly. (I threw away the inside baffle doors that came with it).  It protrudes 2.25", so if you have that much clearance between your vent and toilet, maybe this will work for you.
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TomHanlon

Re: Bathroom heater vent in 2350
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2015, 10:11:56 am »
Because we camp a lot in the summer when it is very hot and the A/C does not have vents in the bathroom, in either our 2552 or the old 2350, we learned to leave the bathroom door open or at least cracked open. We started doing this to allow better air circulation. We now do this in the winter also. When we take showers the heat from the shower keeps it warm in there. We do close the door for showers and when using the toilet for number twos.

In the 2552 the heater vent in the bathroom blows right on my right leg. It can really warm. The vent can turn to allow some directing of the air. You might want to check your vent to see if it can turn. If not look into getting a new vent that does turn. It is easy to replace vents. you can find them at most RV supply places like RV dealers or Camping World. A call to Phoenix might help get you one also.
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Bathroom heater vent in 2350
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2015, 11:34:08 am »
I like AMWs little add-on thingy.  I can see value in that to resolve such an issue.

I find it fascinating how we all have different experiences.

Without examining my own heat registers, I recall they can be redirected by unscrewing the register from the wall and turn 90, 180, or 270 degrees.  Unfortunately the toilet might not let you get to all 4 screws.  I also think registers can be replaced with other versions that easily spin in any direction.

Back in 2010 when the factory increased the size of the slide out for the 2350 (and maybe other models) to include the fridge, the factory had to relocate the furnace from under the fridge to under the rear corner bed on the other side of the rig.  In my opinion a few key sacrifices were made to get that all to work.

1) outdoor storage compartment got a lot smaller
2) one kitchen drawer was lost for a heat register
3) apparently that one heat register does not heat the bathroom adequately

Because our furnace is under the fridge, it is very close to the bathroom so the bath gets very warm.
Here is our bath heat register.


One register faces the isle as shown here,


The 3rd register warms up our feet at the dinette.  Unfortunately you can't make it out well.  It is in the left bench close to the outside wall, aimed at the right bench.


Though not practical in our situation, a 4th register near the entry door, aimed forward would be nice.  I think the newer 2350s have one there.  Actually I think the furnace is limited to having 3 heat registers anyway.

I wonder if you order a new 2015 2350 without a slide out, is the furnace under the closet like our 2007 2350, or is it under the bed?

If our furnace was under the bed like most or all done today, I would not have been able to reconfigure our kitchen cabinet Detailed Here
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 12:21:15 pm by ron.dittmer »
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Doneworking

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Re: Bathroom heater vent in 2350
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2015, 09:47:05 pm »
Ron....BINGO!  Your register is in an ideal place.  Ann, your idea probably is my solution, although I don't think there is room back there for what you used.  That being said, making a small deflector and attaching it to the wall with 3M tape over the outlet is a logical and easy solution.  Thanks.  The other issue is volume.  What I really need to do is increase the hose coming to the register (and of course put in a matching register to the new hose) since it is considerably smaller than the hoses going to the rest of them.  I do not recall the diameter, but air volume wise, ole PieRSquared really gets you with a hose even an inch smaller in diameter. 

Since we are leaving for 8000 feet in a few days, I don't have time to rework this hose and outlet for a few weeks.  I'll take Ann's solution and create a modified version for this trip that fits my need.  Ron, this is a great example of how everything in a RV is a compromise:  bigger slide, smaller outside storage and having to relocate the forced heat system.  Since prior to this Phoenix we were Class B  people for many years, we understand compromise and small sized units.  There is nothing system wise in our PC that wasn't in our Roadtrek and so you can imagine the engineering required to make it all fit in a conversion van built from the inside out and not on an assembly line. 

We feel like we are royalty in a huge palace with our 2350 after owning three Class Bs.   A Class B teaches you less is more and how to really conserve.   

Thanks for all the input. 

Paul
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Bathroom heater vent in 2350
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2015, 11:32:44 pm »
Quote from: Doneworking on May 18, 2015, 09:47:05 pm
The other issue is volume.  What I really need to do is increase the hose coming to the register (and of course put in a matching register to the new hose) since it is considerably smaller than the hoses going to the rest of them.  I do not recall the diameter, but air volume wise, ole PieRSquared really gets you with a hose even an inch smaller in diameter.  Paul

So your bathroom duct and heat register are smaller than the others?

It sounds like that is your problem.  Somehow you need to get the standard insulated hose (the kind that resembled a dryer slinky vent) to a standard round heat register.  I wonder if you could use the common expandable aluminum non-insulated dryer vent material as the duct.  Just make it oval where space gets tight and left round otherwise.  Because it would not be insulated, you will get some initial heat loss, but it will be in your insulated outdoor storage compartment, maybe nice to get some heat in there anyway since that is where the fresh water tank is.  Well, maybe it's already warm in there given your furnace is in there.

Our outdoor storage compartment is insulated, but no furnace heat is pumped through it.  It is sealed off from the house with very little convection action given the foam mattress is a good insulator.  I suppose hard core winter camping with tank water might present a problem for us.  But then again, I can't see us camping in repeated single digit conditions.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2015, 11:46:39 pm by ron.dittmer »
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TomHanlon

Re: Bathroom heater vent in 2350
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2015, 07:12:35 am »
Doneworking have you checked to see if you can twist the vent to redirect the air flow? Just the lovers turn, not the whole vent.

Phoenix was and may still be using a furnace that has three large and one small hose openings. Check you're existing vents to see what has been used to see if you can put a larger hose into the bath. A larger hose on a small opening in furnace will not do much for you.
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Bathroom heater vent in 2350
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2015, 12:14:43 pm »
Interesting information Tom.  I had thought the furnace exhausted via 3 standard size ducts.  My rig is now 8 years old so maybe that was the case back then, different lately.  Then again, maybe I have 3 & 1 like you describe.
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Doneworking

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Re: Bathroom heater vent in 2350
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2015, 12:51:50 pm »
Tom, yes the register swivels.  That doesn't help because of its location.  It just mostly swivels to heat one side or the other of the toilet base.   And, as I mentioned in my earlier post, obviously the answer would be to increase the hose size, re-position the register and direct its flow as best possible.  I am going to simply build a little diverter for this  trip in a few days and tear it down when we get back and rebuild the whole thing, which is not that great a project.  Hopefully, PC will take a look at this location and see if they can come up with a little modification for the production line.   It is tight in the bathroom and there ain't a whole lot of real estate to move that little fella.  I may discover relocation isn't practical, but a larger pipe should be practical.   

The math is simple:  the flow of a three inch duct is approximately 56% of a 4 inch duct.   That, and location of the register, are the two problems.  I didn't measure the ducts when I had the bed out and the support strand board removed but that is probably close to what they are (3&4). 

Thanks for all the input from everyone.

Paul

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Doneworking

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Re: Bathroom heater vent in 2350
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2015, 03:12:16 pm »
Well, I went ahead today and pulled the bed and the strand board under it.  I found out whey the register was located where it was:  there is no other choice.  To move it like I was suggesting in my posts above would require cutting a big chunk out of stud that is the main support for the wall and bathroom door in the 2350.  So, I could not really improve much on what Phoenix did when they made the unit.  

Here is what I did find when I got a light and really got into this little project.  The duct (which is smaller going to the bath) is ducted off the top of the heater.  The larger ducts going to the rest of the unit are from the side.  Space is TIGHT and from the top of the duct as it comes out of the heater, there simply is no room to accommodate a larger piece of duct.  

BUT, here was a couple of other things to consider.  The original owner had purchased the super duper sound system and there is a woofer located under the bed.   :help

When it was installed, the little duct going to the bathroom was rerouted around and longer than necessary.  I examined it and found four places where it had been slit between the register and heater during installation.   So, I shortened it as much as possible and rerouted it for one less turn and used commercial quality duct tape to repair the tears/slits.   Where the duct was attached to the register it was torn almost in half, down to the spiral wire (which is really strong stuff).  

After the repairs and shortening, it puts out significantly more air but still blows mostly on the john.  I went to Home Depot and Lowes but could not find a diverter like Ann posted about with pictures above, so I will make one that will force the air to the side and hope all this helps warm things up a bit.   It is in the low 30s at night where we are going.  

Paul
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Bathroom heater vent in 2350
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2015, 04:45:12 pm »
Very interesting Paul.  I am glad you took the time to examine your particular situation, and made some repairs & improvements.  It sounds like you did real good.

You have me wondering if you could change your heat register to something rectangular, maybe 2" x 10", or would it be 3"x10".  Inside the wall have a ductwork adaptor to change from the 2 or 3" round to the rectangle opening.  This way the air could get around the commode much easier.  Maybe your adaptor-duct could have an insert to divert the air to the ends.

In my mind I am imagining something along the lines of a 2" diameter shop vac floor thingy like this, only made of sheet metal to your exact requirements.  You might be able to find what you need in a heating & a/c contractor's store, or even a home improvement store.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 04:51:07 pm by ron.dittmer »
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