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Help! Leak in the bathroom

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skipper

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Help! Leak in the bathroom
« on: January 11, 2015, 11:17:58 am »
We are on the road this weekend and I'm hooked up to power only.  Last night we noticed water oozing out from under the vanity in the bathroom.  All we have used the bathroom for this weekend is the sink and the toilet.  I put a towel down and we didn't use the sink last night.  This morning  I investigated more thoroughly.  The water is coming from under the shower pan/vanity area, I think from under the shower pan.  All the drain pipes under the bathroom vanity are dry as are the supply lines.  We used the water pump and kitchen sink to wash dishes this morning and there is now more water pooling in the bathroom leading me to believe i have a leak on the supply side that manifests when the pump is turned on.  The supply lines to the bathroom sink are dry.  In my 2552 the supply lines appear to run along the back wall from the closet to the sink and then on to the shower.  My guess is that there is a leak where the supply line makes a right angle turn to go up to the shower knobs or at the knobs themselves.  Has anyone ever pulled the corner of their shower out?  Any other suggestions for finding the source of the leak?  Thanks, Mark
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Carol

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Re: Help! Leak in the bathroom
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2015, 11:53:59 am »
I've been dealing with a leak issue for a few months now and it has been at the connections for the shower faucets.  In the 2350/2351, there is a small panel on the back of the shower wall and next to the bed, making it somewhat accessible, although to do any work on it, the mattress and board underneath has to be removed.  Not sure what your model is like but I'm sure others more familiar can direct you if there is an easy way to get to those connections.  I'd say it sure is worth looking for.  I've had the connections back there tightened up three times now, and it seems that they just keep jiggling loose again after driving a bit.  Two repairmen have been involved so far, and both have commented that the setup seems awkward, with more connections than should be necessary.  Taking it in again in a couple of weeks, and they may rebuild the plumbing in that area to simplify it and hopefully fix the issue once and for all.  Good luck and I hope you find your answer soon.  Leaks are a pain!
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2 Frazzled

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Re: Help! Leak in the bathroom
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2015, 01:02:36 pm »
We bought silicone "rescue tape" at the Hershey show a few years back and intended to wrap all plumbing connections with it to prevent that jiggling loose problem. We haven't gotten around to it and luckily haven't had any plumbing leaks but you may want to consider it since you are working on the connections anyhow. I've been told silicone tape is sold at major hardware stores and I'm sure you can find it online. You stretch it out and wrap with it. It merges/bonds to itself and does not come off until you cut it off. I've used it successfully on wires that came loose and were hanging under the steps.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 07:31:53 pm by 2 Frazzled »
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Pax

Re: Help! Leak in the bathroom
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2015, 02:04:21 pm »
I wonder if any of Earl's videos of PC's being built would show that plumbing.  :beg

  - Mike

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TomHanlon

Re: Help! Leak in the bathroom
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2015, 05:14:07 pm »
You might want to check the outside shower as the plumbing for it runs around the inside shower.
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skipper

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Re: Help! Leak in the bathroom
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2015, 09:25:45 pm »
OK, after we got home, I pulled the panel off the shower that holds the controls.  It's in the corner.  I found the hot and cold water runs coming from the bathroom sink.  They continue on around the corner and apparently go to the outside shower.  I also found about 20' of camera wire coiled up and the penetration where it goes out the wall.  There was also a bundle of wires running along the wall.   You can see that the shower pan sits on styrofoam.  The area was wet and I blotted up as much as I could, hooked the shower hot/cold water controls back up and turned on the pump.  I waited 10 minutes and the pump never ran after pressurizing the system and I found no leaks.  I ran some water through the sink and water almost immediately started seeping out b/w the vanity and shower.  i have a drain leak. 

I traced the drain system and the drain drops to the floor makes a right angle turn towards the shower and then makes another turn back towards the engine.  No leaks to this point and after the turn back towards the front of the vehicle you can't see/access the drain pipe.  Somewhere under there the drain from the shower links in and then it drops to the holding tank. 

I hope I can remove the vanity and get to the drain without removing the whole shower/shower pan.  I started removing the vanity.  Interestingly it is built around the plumbing.  In other words, it doesn't just slide in.  To remove the vanity, you must remove the panel behind the toilet, remove the permanent shelf in the vanity and I'm not sure yet, but probably remove the vanity top too.  To get the vanity shelf out, you would have to cut the drain plumbing.  Why would you design a bathroom where you put the vanity in, drop in the vanity shelf, screw it in, add the bathroom sink vent, glue it in, glue in the trap, and then add the vanity top?  It's not a clean install and I can't get to the drain pipe once the vanity is removed, I'll have to disassemble the shower and remove the shower pan!

I'll call the factory tomorrow and see if there is a better way.  Either the drain pipe wasn't glued correctly and parted at a joint or the pipe suffered a stress fracture.  It's probably the former with the amount of water leaking.
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gl1500

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Re: Help! Leak in the bathroom
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2015, 11:02:29 pm »
Maybe these photos will help you with the construction of the 2552.  Took them when at the factory.  If you need bigger pictures, e-mail me at bnhickey@gmail.com.
    Bob
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 11:07:07 pm by gl1500 »
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skipper

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Re: Help! Leak in the bathroom
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2015, 09:42:22 am »
Thanks for the pic, Bob.  A picture is worth a thousand words.  The leak is somewhere under the lip of the shower pan.  I wonder where the shower drain attaches or if it even uses this drain pipe?  I hope I can get to it with just the vanity removed.  I'm hoping that the shower pan lip is removable for access or the whole shower will need to be disassembled and the pan pulled out.  What a job that will be.  The vanity disassembly is going very slow.  The guy who put it in went a little crazy with the screw gun and crushed/split most of the wood as he drove the screws in way too deep.  It make it tough getting them out.  Plus, as you can see in the picture, part of it was installed when access was easy.  I have a call into Kermit and hopefully he will have an easy solution.  This plumbing was not designed to ever need fixing!  Mark
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Help! Leak in the bathroom
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2015, 12:35:40 pm »
If the leak is right at the pan/drain area, you should be able to seal it from inside the shower.  Removing the screen on the shower pan may loosen the connection there.  If so, that is great!  A little silicone caulk and reconnect is a very easy repair. 

It is possible something became loose or even broke from the underside.  Have you looked up from below?  I wonder if you can access the connection from the street.

I don't own a 2551 or 2552 so I am not the best person to reply.  Consider my input "very generic".
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skipper

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Re: Help! Leak in the bathroom
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2015, 08:31:16 pm »
I talked to Kermit today.  He said this is not a repair for the faint of heart and twice said I needed to bring the rv back to the factory for repair.   That's not going to happen.  I basically have to lift up the shower so I can find the problem and hopefully have enough room to fix it.  I need to disassemble the glass shower walls and remove trim at the base of the shower walls.  Once that is out I need to unscrew the shower pan from the exterior walls.  That should free up the pan except from its drain and sealant.  Then I must try to pry up the shower pan so I can peek underneath to find the leak.  The drain leaves the sink and follows the exterior of the shower pan with 45 degree angles turns and finally drops into the holding tank between the shower pan and the linen closet.  The shower drains elsewhere so it is not the problem.  If I can't get the pan up high enough to see, I may need to remove the drain from the shower pan.  He didn't think removing the vanity was a good idea as it is hard to remove and wouldn't allow much access once I got it out so I'll do it the easy way by taking out the shower! I will start on this project later this week.

After talking to Kermit, I'm pretty sure one of the 45 degree joints under the shower pan has parted just based on the drain pipe layout and where the water is leaking.  I'm really not looking forward to this job, but until it's fixed the kitchen sink and vanity can't be used.   
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Help! Leak in the bathroom
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2015, 10:44:27 pm »
Wow, that is a very extensive project.

I do wonder if you could cut a "Clean & Restorable" access hole from underneath.  Kermit might be able to assist on where to cut the hole.  You will have to cut through 1/4" fluted plastic under-belly, 2" Styrofoam block, and 3/4" plywood.  You will need an extremely strong magnet (from an old computer hard drive) to detect if there is a steel beam in the area.  The strong magnet would need to detect metal through just the 1/4" underbelly material.

This is the sandwich you would need to cut through and re-plug after the repair is completed.  If you cut the hole clean and perfectly square, the factory may be able to supply you with the sandwich plug.
     V
     V
     |
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     V


I am only tossing out ideas here, not hard core advise.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 10:52:02 pm by ron.dittmer »
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Re: Help! Leak in the bathroom
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2015, 10:07:49 am »
OK, with help from Kermit and Bob, I was able to fix the leak.  The drain from the kitchen and bathroom sink follow the contour of the shower pan lip that you step over to get in the shower.  The first 45 degree after leaving the sink (this would be the 45 degree angle just to your left as you step into the shower) had a severe crack on the inside.  It cracked because it was under stress because the 'real' angle of the joint was closer to 55 degrees due to the installer not using the right lengths of straight pipe.  Over time, it developed a stress fracture.

I replaced the elbow with a length of 45 degree angle radiator hose and double clamped it on both ends.  Hopefully this will be a permanent solution.  It works for marine installations.

This is a big job.  The pan had to be lifted to get to the leaking joint.  This required complete disassembly of the shower. The glass had to be removed, the walls between the glass and exterior had to be removed, the trim around the pan had to be removed, the pan had to be loosened all around, and the trim around the interior shower walls had to be removed so you could lift the pan up to get to the leak.  Once I found the leak, I had to cut it out and that wasn't easy either.

We discussed cutting a hole in the shower pan to gain access, but that wouldn't have worked because the pan had to be lifted to have enough working room.

I'm about done, I have to get my nail gun and nail back the trim on the interior and then re-caulk the shower.  Whew!   There are some tricks to getting the walls off.  If anyone has this happen to them, get in touch with me.  The factory said this is the first time they had a leak reported here.  They have repaired broken shower pans.  Mark
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gl1500

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Re: Help! Leak in the bathroom
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2015, 02:11:21 pm »
Mark,
    Thanks for the feedback on what you had to go through to make this repair.  Good info if anyone else has a similar problem.
       Bob
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Re: Help! Leak in the bathroom
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2015, 10:05:11 am »
Mark, I'm sorry to hear about your difficulties but am glad you were able to fix the leak. I suspect you now have an answer to something I've been wondering about - do the shower wall panels have a lip where they overlap or are they flat pieces laid against each other? Also do they sit against a raised lip on the shower pan? I'm just curious to know if the only thing keeping water from behind the walls is the caulk or if the walls themselves help at all.

We've squeegeed some of the visible line of caulk off where the panels meet so I'm trying to determine if that was my only line of defense. I have the caulk but we are in the cool and humid northwest so we would have to keep windows open for the fumes while trying to dry out the caulk. Not sure how that would go and I'm not sure I'm ready to give up being snug and warm for a day... or more.

Thanks for any info,
Holly
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Help! Leak in the bathroom
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2015, 01:49:06 pm »
Like Holly, I too wonder about that.

Glad to hear your pain and suffering with the leak is resolved.  That did not sound like fun to me either.

About your flexible drain hose idea, when reconfiguring our kitchen base cabinet drawers, I replaced the solid black drain plumbing with a different type of flex line as pictured on my project post HERE.

Like you say, it is a very good working solution when the black plastic is giving trouble of one kind or another.

Here is my flex material.  I considered it perfect for the application with extremely good leak-proof-reliable qualities.


Here it is installed for the kitchen sink drain.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 01:55:21 pm by ron.dittmer »
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