Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: nccampguy on December 19, 2016, 05:31:10 pm
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Hi PCers,
I'm considering the 3100 and I'm just wondering what's not to like about it. I've owned a number of Class Cs but none were over 26 feet. The only other model that would be of interest to me might be the 2552.
Any thoughts, advice or observations would be appreciated! (WH)
NCCAMPGUY
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The 3100 is really nice. The only thing I would recommend you do is take a good look at how much of the rig extends beyond the rear tires. For many folks this isn't a problem, but I've seen two that bottomed out back there.
- Mike
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The 3100 is really nice. The only thing I would recommend you do is take a good look at how much of the rig extends beyond the rear tires. For many folks this isn't a problem, but I've seen two that bottomed out back there.
- Mike
Thats a good point Mike. I was wondering what the dimension might be between the rear axle and the back of the coach. I saw a video on the PC site where Earl points out that one of their rigs stands higher and has less space behind the axle than the SOB unit they were comparing it to.
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Hi NCCAMPGUY
I was stuck between those two models for awhile but ordered the 3100. I thought for driving, the 2552 would be nicer with the shorter length. And I don't like that the 3100 can not carry a spare tire now. When they brought both models to the Hershey RV show, I ended up spending long stretches of time for two days in first one and then the other to try to imagine what it would feel like on the third rainy day in a row with me and the dogs and cats all in there. Or how it would feel while preparing meals etc. Since i intend to ultimately do this FT I decided I would not want to lose the extra living space and storage space and I felt I really wanted both the couch and the table. I like the visual feeling of room to be sitting on the couch and having the open line of sight over the table before that line is interrupted by the bedroom wall. That keeps me from feeling closed in.
Diana
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Hi NCCAMPGUY
I was stuck between those two models for awhile but ordered the 3100. I thought for driving, the 2552 would be nicer with the shorter length. And I don't like that the 3100 can not carry a spare tire now. When they brought both models to the Hershey RV show, I ended up spending long stretches of time for two days in first one and then the other to try to imagine what it would feel like on the third rainy day in a row with me and the dogs and cats all in there. Or how it would feel while preparing meals etc. Since i intend to ultimately do this FT I decided I would not want to lose the extra living space and storage space and I felt I really wanted both the couch and the table. I like the visual feeling of room to be sitting on the couch and having the open line of sight over the table before that line is interrupted by the bedroom wall. That keeps me from feeling closed in.
Diana
Diana,
I'm thinking the same thing you did. I had a 27' Lazy Daze called a Rear Bath. It had two sofas in the front and a dinette directly across from the galley. It was great ...exept, when it came to bedtime when we had to convert the sofas to beds. Lazy Daze also makes a 31 foot twin bed where you can have a sofa and dinette in front. I was/am still considering this rig also. The PC 3100 is a bit tighter inside but seems to be a nicer pplace to live due to the slide. Lazy Daze does no slides. :'(
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Hi nccampguy,
The only potential issue I am aware of with any PC in the "over 30" length is over-loading the 4 rear tires making them susceptible to blow outs. I assume the most prone model would be the one with a rear bedroom with slide out and all the nice cabinetry weighing down the back end. It seems the least susceptible model would be rear twin beds with no rear slide out that is offered but not shown on the website. I believe Phoenix removed the spare tire to help alleviate the condition. Of coarse there are other influences like a full tank of fresh water, and what you bring from home & where in your PC you store it. The worst place to put heavy stuff is rear of the rear axle.
When we stopped in at the factory last October for a tour, there was a PC owner full timing in a long unit, I think a 2910T. He was there having his PC repaired from a very bad rear tire blow out that messed up all kinds of things on his PC including putting a hole in his floor.
Model 2552 and shorter don't seem to have the same concerns. If I owned an over 30 footer PC, I would consider buying one of those easy-install tire pressure monitoring systems for under $300. Actually it's not a bad idea on any PC regardless of length. Bill G. put that into my head recently.
Please don't take my word as "fact" on tire blow-outs on the longest PCs for I am not 100% certain of it. Do your research. Ask Phoenix and the PC community. But if the rear tires are loaded at or modestly beyond their load limit, I would put in the max tire pressure of 80 psi and use a TPS system to monitor tire pressure. One bad blow out and you'll be kicking yourself over the mess you might have avoided over a measly $300 TPS monitor.
Ron Dittmer
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We love the floor plan of our 2552, especially the rear bath area. If we were ever to get a longer PC it would be a 3100 for that very reason.
--Bruce and Sharon
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We have had our 3100 since Aug. It was a quick and easy transition from our previous 21 foot BT Cruiser. It took no time at all to get used to driving it. We were extra careful with our turns at first; overly aware of the wider swing on the back end. Drove it home from Florida, and then took a trip out to Wisconsin ....there is so much room inside. My ideal rig would be like a 21 footer on the outside with the room of the 3100 in the inside :-D
We are retiring this year, and wanted the extra room for longer trips. Long story short, we love it!
Nancy G
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I recommend that you go with the 3100 since you plan to full time in the future. The 3100 probably is easier to drive on the the highway due to the longer wheelbase. I have owned motor homes from 24' to 41' and find the 3100 to be a nice size, although I could never full time in it. I liked the maneuverability of the short units but soon forgot about that once parked and setup. Do you intend to spend a lot of time in the unit or will you be gone much of the time (hiking,exploring,touring,etc.). No one size fits all, what others like may not be what is best for you, getting input is good but ultimately you have to decide what works for you. I hope you get it right the first time, most of us didn't. You are considering a very good product, I am very happy with my Phoenix.
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If you don't like the twin beds, PC now has king bed option on th 2552 and 3100. It has electric controls to convert twins into a king bed. See the recent sold 2017 2552 for details.
Has anyone weighed the 2552 for axle and tire weight? How about the 3100?
Where is the fresh water located in 2552 and 3100?
Ron
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The tire failure at PC factory mention above scared me. I considered a used 2016 2910D recently. My favorite color. My dream motorhome. But I calculated rear driver tire to be 400-500 lbs over loaded with full water. That really bummed me out. I turned it down. The 3100 May not be as bad with one slide.
Ron
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We were full time for almost two years and will be again after family issues resolve. We were RV newbies and I agonized over the choices. We love the rear bath and the twin beds that allow us to carry myriad people without making strangers sleep in the same bed. We manage fine with the space though if our granddaughter travels long term with us, it will probably feel tight. There are trade offs no matter what. For us, the final deciding factor was the payload. Add the extra weight and extra slide of the longer rigs and you lose about 1000 pounds of payload. The 2552 has about 3k to start with depending on options chosen. The longer ones have about 2k. I calculated the weight of water, gasoline, propane, people, pets, food, clothing, tools, toys, kitchen gear, outdoor gear, office equipment (we were working from the road), and just general "stuff" and quickly locked in on the 2552. We tow a Subaru Forester with a car top carrier and it acts as our extra gear wagon as well as our transport shuttle. We don't load the inside of the car too much because, again, we want to be able to carry extra people to the store, dinner out or just to a remote hiking or biking trail.
Ron, those blow outs are frequently due to overloading. I know a snowbird couple with a fifth wheel that blow out tires damaging their rig just about EVERY year. When they told me the story and I saw how much stuff they hauled I asked what their weight limits were and they had no clue. I can pretty much guarantee the weight they hauled was way over what those tires could handle.
Another note, the rear tire was dropped to qualify for some Ford specification for the extended frames. I assume it has to do with weight balancing but I don't know the specifics and can't speak on that. By dropping that spare tire, the Phoenix will get some "blessing" from Ford they didn't have before. I further assume competition has it and touts it so you may be able to find a reference and figure out the specifics by checking claims that way if you so desire.
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Where do you plan on camping? A private campground, a BLM or state parks, etc. Some of them have length limits. The 2552 or 2551 will fit in most any campground while the longer models will not.
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Where do you plan on camping? A private campground, a BLM or state parks, etc. Some of them have length limits. The 2552 or 2551 will fit in most any campground while the longer models will not.
Tom, In the past we mostly stayed at KOA campgrounds. We aren't really boon docking kinda folks. We tend to think of the RV as a mobile hotel. (WH)
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we were full time for 17 years in 35 to 40 footers. we now have a 2552 and spent 4 to 5 month summers in the 2552. for us there was never a problem. weight is 1000 pounds under. the only thing i miss is the 155 gallon fuel tank. don't take too much stuff. it just gets in the way.
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we were full time for 17 years in 35 to 40 footers. we now have a 2552 and spent 4 to 5 month summers in the 2552. for us there was never a problem. weight is 1000 pounds under. the only thing i miss is the 155 gallon fuel tank. don't take too much stuff. it just gets in the way.
Dave, Not sure what you mean by "weight is 100 pounds under". You mean 1000 pounds less than a 3100?
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We like our 2910 with twin beds in the rear in place of the slide. It's nice to be able to section the bedroom off from the living area and kitchen.
The twin beds in the rear allow plenty of room to get dressed and easy access to the cabinets above. The night stand between the beds is a great place to put an alarm clock and reading material etc.
We also enjoy the living area in the 2910 it provides a wonderful place to sit and visit with family and friends.
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We like our 2910 with twin beds in the rear in place of the slide. It's nice to be able to section the bedroom off from the living area and kitchen.
The twin beds in the rear allow plenty of room to get dressed and easy access to the cabinets above. The night stand between the beds is a great place to put an alarm clock and reading material etc.
We also enjoy the living area in the 2910 it provides a wonderful place to sit and visit with family and friends.
Hi David,
Your PC is the model I was referencing earlier in this subject. I assume yours would have the least amount of weight on the rear axle given there is no rear slide out and less storage in back to weigh it down so much.
What is under your rear twin beds? Are both open for personal effects, or is the fresh water tank inside one of them? If so, which side? I am curious.
Looking at older brochures, in 2011 Phoenix offered model 2950 which had rear twin beds like you but the over-all length was 29'-8" long which is 14" shorter than yours, but it's wheel base is 10" shorter as well. Given everything else equal, the shorter the wheel base, the more weight is placed on the rear tires.
If going with the longest of PC models, yours seemingly has the least worries of rear tire over-load. That is something for nccampguy to ponder.
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We like our 2910 with twin beds in the rear in place of the slide. It's nice to be able to section the bedroom off from the living area and kitchen.
The twin beds in the rear allow plenty of room to get dressed and easy access to the cabinets above. The night stand between the beds is a great place to put an alarm clock and reading material etc.
We also enjoy the living area in the 2910 it provides a wonderful place to sit and visit with family and friends.
David, I haven't been able to find the floor-plan of the 2910 as you describe but it does sound interesting. Looking at the current 2910T and 2910D I cant quite see how a twin will fit between the bath and the back of the coach? Is it a short twin on the driver's side or did they have to shrink the bath? NCCAMPGUY
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when weighed we are 1000 pounds under the max for the rear axle. this allows lower tire pressure for a better ride.
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Hello Ron,
We had Phoenix hinge both rear bed platforms. The storage under the passenger side is GREAT. It's carpeted inside and runs the whole length of the bed, it can easily hold two pairs of snow ski's and a few other items. The storage from the outside is excellent, it also goes the entire length of the bed.
The drivers side houses the water tank so the storage space is limited. I like being able to store smaller items in there. I installed a water tank similar to yours in that area, having access also allows us to check the pressure on the water tank.
The bed on the drivers side is approximately four inches wider than the bed on the passenger side.
I agree that it's nice not having the extra weight of the rear slide.
We have owned three Born Free's and two Winnebago class C motorhomes over the years I'm pleased to say the Phoenix 2910 single slide with the rear twin beds is our favorite, we really like the quality and the floor plan.
We took delivery in March of this year and are currently very close to 15,000 miles. Lord willing we plan to leave tomorrow morning in our Cruiser to spend Christmas with our family in Florida.
Merry Christmas,
Dave
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The tire failure at PC factory mention above scared me. I considered a used 2016 2910D recently. My favorite color. My dream motorhome. But I calculated rear driver tire to be 400-500 lbs over loaded with full water. That really bummed me out. I turned it down. The 3100 May not be as bad with one slide.
Ron
Are you saying your calculations revealed 400-500 lbs overweight on each tire on the rear dully combination?
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We were full time for almost two years and will be again after family issues resolve. We were RV newbies and I agonized over the choices. We love the rear bath and the twin beds that allow us to carry myriad people without making strangers sleep in the same bed. We manage fine with the space though if our granddaughter travels long term with us, it will probably feel tight. There are trade offs no matter what. For us, the final deciding factor was the payload. Add the extra weight and extra slide of the longer rigs and you lose about 1000 pounds of payload. The 2552 has about 3k to start with depending on options chosen. The longer ones have about 2k. I calculated the weight of water, gasoline, propane, people, pets, food, clothing, tools, toys, kitchen gear, outdoor gear, office equipment (we were working from the road), and just general "stuff" and quickly locked in on the 2552. We tow a Subaru Forester with a car top carrier and it acts as our extra gear wagon as well as our transport shuttle. We don't load the inside of the car too much because, again, we want to be able to carry extra people to the store, dinner out or just to a remote hiking or biking trail.
Ron, those blow outs are frequently due to overloading. I know a snowbird couple with a fifth wheel that blow out tires damaging their rig just about EVERY year. When they told me the story and I saw how much stuff they hauled I asked what their weight limits were and they had no clue. I can pretty much guarantee the weight they hauled was way over what those tires could handle.
Another note, the rear tire was dropped to qualify for some Ford specification for the extended frames. I assume it has to do with weight balancing but I don't know the specifics and can't speak on that. By dropping that spare tire, the Phoenix will get some "blessing" from Ford they didn't have before. I further assume competition has it and touts it so you may be able to find a reference and figure out the specifics by checking claims that way if you so desire.
According to a Michelon {sp} tire dealer I talked in the past, most blow outs on RV vehicles are caused by under inflation and road hazards. Yes, you can exceed the GCVR of the E450 and overload an axle, but I don't know where you would put the stuff. There isn't that much storage space on any PC.
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According to a Michelon {sp} tire dealer I talked in the past, most blow outs on RV vehicles are caused by under inflation and road hazards.
I can believe that.
When I go by the true weight of our rig and then follow Michelin's weight/psi chart for our specific tires, they visually appear under-inflated. I have a multitude of tire pressure gauges and rule out the few stray readings. The tires actually look partially flat. I like to add 5 to 10 additional psi so they don't scare me. The down-side is that the ride is rougher. The up-side is that I feel better and our fuel economy is better.
I wish I knew the best way to handle it. One thing certain.....we have not yet had a blow-out.
Has anyone else had the same experience as me with their tires officially inflated properly, but they look significantly under-inflated?
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Paw paw,
The over load I referred to was drivers side rear tires. There are a couple owners who weighed units in the forum. Using that as basis and adjusting for the units options like an added closet in the rear bedroom and using full water capacity it was over loaded more than I was comfortable.
PC not only removed spare and redesigned rear end they also went to a different slide. I would be interested in the weight of the 2910 after these changes. Hopefully if the new slide uses a channel it is steel and aluminum, as other companies have had issues with the aluminum channel slides.
Back to the thread. Hopefully we are going to Tampa RV Show next month. That would be the place to see all PC has to offer (they are planning on having a 2350, 2552, 2910D,and 3100). All manufactures will be there to compare and contrast.
Merry Christmas
Ron
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If anyone is interested here are the measurements for the rear beds on our 2910
Drivers side: 35" X 78"
Passenger side : 33" X 78"
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Paw paw,
The over load I referred to was drivers side rear tires. There are a couple owners who weighed units in the forum. Using that as basis and adjusting for the units options like an added closet in the rear bedroom and using full water capacity it was over loaded more than I was comfortable.
PC not only removed spare and redesigned rear end they also went to a different slide. I would be interested in the weight of the 2910 after these changes. Hopefully if the new slide uses a channel it is steel and aluminum, as other companies have had issues with the aluminum channel slides.
Back to the thread. Hopefully we are going to Tampa RV Show next month. That would be the place to see all PC has to offer (they are planning on having a 2350, 2552, 2910D,and 3100). All manufactures will be there to compare and contrast.
I may be wrong, but I believe every new unit leaves the factory with a CCC rating. Most manufacturers calculate this number by taking the weight of the as built unit plus the weight of full tanks of propane, fuel and water and subtracting this combined weight from the GVWR of the E450. As long as you don't exceed this CCC, and maintain proper tire inflation, you should be ok. Of course, the tire need to be inspected on a regular basis.
Merry Christmas
Ron
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The yellow CCC rating is not accurate. Tom Hanlan summarized CCC very well in another thread. They do not weigh each unit that is built.
Ron
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(http://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2592.0;attach=3995;image)
2o2
That surely appears to weigh significantly less than the rear double bed slide out version.
Because my wife and I like to sleep together in the same bed, if we wanted a 2910D/T or 3100 with the rear bedroom like you have there, I would see if Phoenix could make a captains queen bed in the same space, built across the back wall with drawers or cabinet space with shelves under the bed forward, and outdoor storage rearward. Maybe the fresh water tank could be relocated more forward inside a no-slide dinette bench seat.
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Ron,
This picture is of a "custom" 2910. One slide and twin beds in the rear--just like ours!
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Ron
Now that's what I'm talkin about! We would love the arrangement you describe. It should solve the weight issue. If PC made it an optional configuration and not custom the cost should be less than a 2910T or 2910D. Now that would be a fine Christmas present!
Merry Christmas to all!
Ron
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Ron
Now that's what I'm talkin about! We would love the arrangement you describe. It should solve the weight issue. If PC made it an optional configuration and not custom the cost should be less than a 2910T or 2910D. Now that would be a fine Christmas present!
Merry Christmas to all!
Ron
Ron/Sarz
You might be pleasantly surprised as to Phoenix's charge for a rear captain's bed. It is surely worth a call to Earl.
And a Merry Christmas to all from me too!
Ron Dittmer
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Ron,
This picture is of a "custom" 2910. One slide and twin beds in the rear--just like ours!
Nice Gradygal!
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The more I look at the "custom" 2910 the the more I like it! Wish we were in the process of buying a new PC.
Two questions I would have:
1. Does having the rear twin bed on the passenger side eliminate the large outside storage there?
2. Is there any full-length closet space?
--Bruce
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Bruce,
We had a 2351 before we had our 2910 built. I cant say for sure but I think the outside storage on our 2910 is the same depth as the 2351 but it's much longer. I will try to get you a few pictures of both the inside and outside storage.
Unfortunately there are no full length closets with this layout. I can post a few pictures of the closets as well.
Dave
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Bedroom cabinets 2910 rear twin
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Storage under passenger side bed.
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outside passenger side storage 2910 rear twin bed.
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Having owned both a 2551S and a 3100 I can say the 3100 is a much better handling coach. The longer wheel base makes for a much better ride and handles much better compared to the 2551. The extra weight of the 3100 tones down the rough ride of the E-450 under the 2551. In my four years of ownership of the 3100 I only dragged the rear end once. Fully loaded with fuels and water the GVW was 930 lbs under max and both axles were within weight limits. I would have some concern that with an additional slide and dual pain windows you might then be pushing the GVW. The only issue with the longer wheel based 3100 is the turning radius is very significant, like you need a football field to turn her around. I added all of the suspension goodies and that made for a very well behaved coach. best of luck
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Thank you David Rotelle for the pictures.
It appears there is a carpeted enclosure running through the passenger side under-bed storage. It must be the drain pipe from the kitchen or bathroom along that wall to get over to the waste tank in back below the floor. I think it is kept above the floor to protect it from freezing.
Very interesting!
Is the fresh water tank placed under the driver side bed with a little inside storage available?
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The yellow CCC rating is not accurate. Tom Hanlan summarized CCC very well in another thread. They do not weigh each unit that is built.
Ron
I have owned 4 motorhomes: 3 Class A's from Tiffin [Allegros] and 1 Class B+, my current PC 2552. I had all my units weighed and the CCC supplied by both the factories were accurate, including my 2552. Now, shame on PC if they are supplying false info to customers.
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Thank you David for the photos of your cabinets and storage bins.
You are a Gem. 2o2
--Bruce
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The only thing that I dislike about our 2910 is the lack of a wardrobe. I am making do but it would be so much nicer to have a wardrobe like the 2552. We will be living in our PC in Boothbay Maine for 5 months this coming summer. A hanging locker would be Very nice to have.
Judi
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We drove our 2910 from south east PA to south west FL this week pulling a 16' enclosed trailer. I really like the way the cruiser handles it rolls down the road so nice. If I had to choose between our Subaru Outback and Cruiser to drive long distance I'd opt for the cruiser, it drives that nice!
The only suspension modifications we made were the KONI FSD shocks and rear Firestone air bags. Also we asked Phoenix Cruiser to have the front end aligned before we took delivery.
As for the Air Bags, when we got home to PA after taking delivery of our coach in March I noticed the drivers side rear was close to two inches lower than the passenger side. When I spoke to Earl about it he told me that they did not think the drivers side would need extra spacers because of eliminating the extra slide.
The Air Bags were a good way to level the rear end. I had them on our Born Free's and like the ability to adjust the bags dependent upon our needs.
As to the point raised of the longer coach driving well.....I agree........I won't tell you how many stops we made on our way to Florida.....besides Cracker Barrel and Fuel stops :) ............Let's just say I could drive and drive and drive :)
Dave
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My wife and I are visiting the factory next Tuesday. We get to see a new 3100 and a 2910D before they take them to the Tampa RV show. I should be able to "visualize" the 2910 Twin Bed with the help of these great pics.
So far, looking at the floorplans, my wife is thinking she won't like the kitchen layout of the 2910. Especially with the slide in. I think I might end up liking the 3100 bath better too. Although, if you have a guest staying in the 3100 you have to walk between the beds to get to the potty. :-[
Always trade-offs. We will also get a change to sit in a Dinette, Euro Chair and Sofa. Seating comfort is a big deal for us. So many RVs have seating that looks nice but feels like non-supportive mush. We shall see what the PC stuff is like. It will take my wife about 5 nanoseconds to know if she likes it or not! >(
We have owned Lazy Daze and Born Free Class Cs. The Lazy Daze has very very comfy sofas using a high density foam structure. PC talks about "memory foam" in all the videos. My experince with memory foam has been negative so far. Hot and a feeling of sinking into it rather than being supported by it.
Any comments on the seating in the newer models?
Nccampguy