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Glad we have a Phoenix Cruiser!

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Doneworking

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Glad we have a Phoenix Cruiser!
« on: October 25, 2022, 12:06:28 pm »
I read this a couple of days ago and it just confirms some of my personal observations visiting with new unit owners and going through new rigs at a few rv shows.   We are a lucky lot, PC owners!

https://www.indystar.com/in-depth/news/investigations/2022/10/19/rv-horrors-defective-units-unhappy-buyers-a-near-death-experience/69523329007/
« Last Edit: October 25, 2022, 12:08:50 pm by Doneworking »

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CalCruiser

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Re: Glad we have a Phoenix Cruiser!
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2022, 08:53:07 pm »
Thor, god of thunder and crappy new RVs from Camping World.

Itís fair to assume they had the furnace or some other heat source running for the puppies because thereís snow in the picture. Canít imagine what could  cause a 12v dc electrical fire except maybe Li-ion batteries or a space heater running on an inverter? Lucky that didnít burn down an entire campground or forest.
Goin' where the wind goes...

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parkgt

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Re: Glad we have a Phoenix Cruiser!
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2022, 09:19:18 pm »
I have seen posts and pictures of things PC has allowed out of the factory in the past couple of years that shows they are not immune to QC issues either. 

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donc13

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Re: Glad we have a Phoenix Cruiser!
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2022, 08:46:54 am »
Thor, god of thunder and crappy new RVs from Camping World.

Itís fair to assume they had the furnace or some other heat source running for the puppies because thereís snow in the picture. Canít imagine what could  cause a 12v dc electrical fire except maybe Li-ion batteries or a space heater running on an inverter? Lucky that didnít burn down an entire campground or forest.

I am not sure that's a fair assumption. You can't imagine a 12v fire?  Connect the positive and negative cables of a car together and stand back.  Or, just run the positive cable so it's rubbing or pinched against the frame.

There's also nothing I saw in the story about the puppies being in the 5th wheel.

I have had a severe electrical problem on a brand new Forest River Lexington.  The wires in the transfer switch weren't properly attached and got hot.  Luckily, the fire was contained within the metal box enclosing the transfer switch.  No idea when that overheating occurred.  The RV had been sitting on the dealer's lot for a year.  Long story short, the neutral and the ground shorted together which caused campground GFI breakers to pop.  When I got home, I did a lot of testing and finally opened up the box with the transfer switch.  The problem was obvious, I replaced the transfer switch, re-did the wiring and never had a problem with it again.

It was poor workmanship by whoever did the original wiring.  It could have easily started a fire, the wires ends were melted and the ground and neutral wires were melted together.

Poor workmanship does occur.  It can cause severe problems.
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Gixxerkid3

Re: Glad we have a Phoenix Cruiser!
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2022, 01:02:49 pm »
Poor workmanship is the downfall of the manufacturing world.  I work for a large aircraft manufacturer and deal with it all the time.  People manÖpeople!

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Doneworking

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Re: Glad we have a Phoenix Cruiser!
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2022, 09:30:55 am »
It would be interesting to know how many units Phoenix Cruiser produces in total each year now compared to previous years.

Those of us that have older PCs recall no dealer networks and virtually every unit being custom built by workers who had been there a long time.   And the guy that started the company was there every day to guide the whole effort.    Small, controlled companies in the rv industry mostly don't exist fourteen years  post 2008.   

In going on ten years of ownership of our PC, our experience is simple:  no problems other than minor self fixits.   I just feel fortunate to own one of the older, well maintained and indoor stored rigs. 

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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Glad we have a Phoenix Cruiser!
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2022, 09:58:51 am »
I am surprised we don't see more of those horror stories because the RV industry is so sloppy, most especially during COVID when demand was so high.

Here is a 2021 Entegra Qwest.  What a nice looking motorhome, right?


But look deeper.  Here is its wiring and plumbing, all entangled together.  Note the whole house water filter and on-board water pump.  The pump is smacked up against the inverter.  One minor water leak with a fine mist spray from the plumbing here, and the rig is toast.






Here are fresh water lines in red, blue, and green, plumbed outside under the motorhome out in the cold where they will freeze.




YES!!! the Phoenix Cruiser is one of the best ever made motorhomes.  Design and workmanship only gets worse from what we have.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2022, 10:48:21 am by Ron Dittmer »
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Gixxerkid3

Re: Glad we have a Phoenix Cruiser!
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2022, 11:15:55 am »
I am surprised we don't see more of those horror stories because the RV industry is so sloppy, most especially during COVID when demand was so high.

Here is a 2021 Entegra Qwest.  What a nice looking motorhome, right?


But look deeper.  Here is its wiring and plumbing, all entangled together.  Note the whole house water filter and on-board water pump.  The pump is smacked up against the inverter.  One minor water leak with a fine mist spray from the plumbing here, and the rig is toast.






Here are fresh water lines in red, blue, and green, plumbed outside under the motorhome out in the cold where they will freeze.




YES!!! the Phoenix Cruiser is one of the best ever made motorhomes.  Design and workmanship only gets worse from what we have.
I would be horrified to see that if I was an owner of a company that produced a product such as that.  WOW.  I have a 2012 PC and have dug into the right spaces like shown and itís pretty good.  I think the quality of PCís is very good. 

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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Glad we have a Phoenix Cruiser!
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2022, 12:25:28 pm »
I would be horrified to see that if I was an owner of a company that produced a product such as that.  WOW.  I have a 2012 PC and have dug into the right spaces like shown and itís pretty good.  I think the quality of PCís is very good.
I am right there with you.  Phoenix does a very good job.

Many here have seen THIS SLIDE SHOW on the making of a Phoenix Cruiser, made for the 2007 model year, then updated for 2008 and maybe a year or two following.  It covers much on PC construction which does not resemble the practices on a 2021 Entegra Qwest.  At least my 2007 PC-2350 does not.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2022, 12:30:31 pm by Ron Dittmer »
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Gixxerkid3

Re: Glad we have a Phoenix Cruiser!
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2022, 06:31:48 pm »
I would be horrified to see that if I was an owner of a company that produced a product such as that.  WOW.  I have a 2012 PC and have dug into the right spaces like shown and itís pretty good.  I think the quality of PCís is very good.
I am right there with you.  Phoenix does a very good job.

Many here have seen THIS SLIDE SHOW on the making of a Phoenix Cruiser, made for the 2007 model year, then updated for 2008 and maybe a year or two following.  It covers much on PC construction which does not resemble the practices on a 2021 Entegra Qwest.  At least my 2007 PC-2350 does not.
Oh I have watched that before.  Yes, very good stuff.

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CalCruiser

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Re: Glad we have a Phoenix Cruiser!
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2022, 06:45:35 pm »
The typical RV is definitely not NASA quality.

I have friends who worked at JPL building the Cassini-Huygens Saturn space probe. It had l22,000 wire connections and more than 7.5 miles of cabling linking its instruments, computers and mechanical devices. Every wire was the same color - white.

No one got fired from JPL for being late or taking a day off, but it was understood that they would be  terminated for poor workmanship if the inspectors found a problem. Canít risk heaters blowing fuses 4.9 billion miles from Pasadena.
Goin' where the wind goes...

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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Glad we have a Phoenix Cruiser!
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2022, 07:53:40 pm »
The typical RV is definitely not NASA quality.
Nothing but "NASA" is made of NASA quality.  Military is a close second.  I would assume privatized space travel (rockets and such) is in there somewhere.

Considering everything, I am impressed with the quality of a typical automobile including the Ford E-Series chassis.  Unfortunately, only a rare few RV manufactures try to mimic a little of those practices, Phoenix being one of them.  Considering such low production numbers, automation has no place at Phoenix.  So it becones a carpenter's project with a plumber and electrician getting involved.

We had our house built for us in 1988.  Being that they were building the house on property we already owned, I had full rein to inspect everything as it was being constructed.  I was there every morning and evening before dark.  Being the archetect, I wanted the crew to rely on my presence once a day in the A.M. to discuss any issues or concerns.  In the evenings, I would do general inspections, certainly was never a critic, especially over frivilous things.  I cleaned the work site on the weekends, did the painting, the staining and finishing of the wood-work, coax & phone wiring, duct-taped the exterior sheething foil backing seams and used expandable foam-insulation around all windows and doors.  So at times there was some timing of effort involved.

One thing I learned about home construction....they are surely not building furniture.  When it comes to the basics, the workmanship of a Phoenix Cruiser and a house is not so different.  The main difference is that the house remains put, but all motorhomes live on a fault line that is extremely unstable on a regular basis.  The plumbing of a PC is exceptional, just like a house.  Regarding wiring, we use conduit in these parts for home construction so there is no comparison.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2022, 08:19:47 pm by Ron Dittmer »
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Gixxerkid3

Re: Glad we have a Phoenix Cruiser!
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2022, 09:02:50 am »
The typical RV is definitely not NASA quality.

I have friends who worked at JPL building the Cassini-Huygens Saturn space probe. It had l22,000 wire connections and more than 7.5 miles of cabling linking its instruments, computers and mechanical devices. Every wire was the same color - white.

No one got fired from JPL for being late or taking a day off, but it was understood that they would be  terminated for poor workmanship if the inspectors found a problem. Canít risk heaters blowing fuses 4.9 billion miles from Pasadena.
Right?  Wow, all white. Now that is taxing on the brain.

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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Glad we have a Phoenix Cruiser!
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2022, 09:50:02 am »
Every wire was the same color - white.
Right?  Wow, all white. Now that is taxing on the brain.
I was thinking the same thing.  I wonder why all the wires would be the same color, white?  Does white insulation on wires hold up better than other colors?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2022, 09:51:39 am by Ron Dittmer »
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LRUCH

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Re: Glad we have a Phoenix Cruiser!
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2022, 12:03:28 pm »
A Houstonian here and I have NASA employee neighbors. I could ask them.

But, I suspect it is due to something like what is certified and approved for use in near zero gravity, and possibly low-or-no pressure environments. The coloring in the wire insulation may not be allowed due to off-gassing.  I work in the IT industry and was part of a project where hardware was going on the shuttles. Every piece in that hardware has to be tested for what it might add/expose to the air, crew and surfaces of the shuttles.  Think about that "new car smell"... You can't air out the space station to get rid of that smell, so it can't be allowed to exist to begin with.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2022, 04:46:12 pm by LRUCH »
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