Hello Guest!

Voltage Drop - NOT Park Problem

  • 23 Replies
  • 26594 Views
*

thrutraffic

  • ****
  • 87
    • View Profile
  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: Used
  • PurchDate: 9/1/2018
  • Model: 2551
  • ModelYear: 2011
  • Slide: Yes
  • IntColor: Sand
  • ExtColor: White/Bronze Lower
  • Location: NC
Voltage Drop - NOT Park Problem
« on: October 06, 2022, 04:28:42 pm »
- First noticed it when A/C turns on then stumbles. Voltage at another RV outlet dropped well below 100. Capacitors good. A/C working fine until this point. A/C did trip ITS 20a breaker one time. 30a main held.
- Problem persists when disconnected from shore power and generator running. Main indicator this is an RV wiring problem not shore power delivery system.
- Thermostat threw an E1.
- Inverter monitor behind driver seat threw an E2 and E5.
- Can turn on toaster at one outlet voltage drops 3v
- Can turn on hot water heater voltage drops 3v
- Hooked up a 15a draw elect device drops 5v
- have checked all
- System wide problem
- Checked connections at transfer switch, socket for shore power, junction where old EMS used to be, mains in RV breaker panel. Checked neutrals, grounds and feeds. All tight.

Shore power is my RV lot shop. I can find no voltage issues there even under load. Problem is on the load side of the RV sidewall shore power connector. Even tried different cables and installed a new 30a breaker.

Am I missing any 120v main connections in the RV not listed above?

I’m stumped.

*

thrutraffic

  • ****
  • 87
    • View Profile
  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: Used
  • PurchDate: 9/1/2018
  • Model: 2551
  • ModelYear: 2011
  • Slide: Yes
  • IntColor: Sand
  • ExtColor: White/Bronze Lower
  • Location: NC
Re: Voltage Drop - NOT Park Problem
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2022, 05:37:06 pm »
Rig is a 2011 2551

*

donc13

  • *******
  • 1358
    • View Profile
  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: New
  • PurchDate: 03/2015
  • Model: 2551
  • ModelYear: 2015
  • Slide: Yes
  • IntColor: Nightscape/Hickory
  • ExtColor: White/Nightscape
  • Location: Colorado
Re: Voltage Drop - NOT Park Problem
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2022, 05:46:07 pm »
Measure voltage with a decent RMS voltmeter.  What's the voltage at the pedestal?  Plug in the cord to the pedestal but not the RV, measure voltage at the shore cable plug?  Same voltage?  Try to have everything turned off and disconnect house batteries (so they won't be charged).  How's the voltage at the electrical outlet in the driver's transition side outlet (under the generator and inverter panels).  Still same voltage?  Now put a cup of water in the microwave and heat it and while the microwave is running, what' s the voltage at that same transition outlet on the driver's side.

If all is normal then turn off microwave and turn on a/c and when the compressor starts, and is running, what's the voltage?

Number 1 culprit would be the start capicator in the A/C or the compressor itself.

One other thing would be arc damage to transfer switch poles.  At 11 years old, I would replace it.
---
Don and Patti

*

CalCruiser

  • ******
  • 670
    • View Profile
  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: Used
  • PurchDate: November 2015
  • Model: 2350 Ford
  • ModelYear: 2003
  • Slide: Yes
  • IntColor: Hickory/ Beige
  • ExtColor: Custom Ford colors- dark shadow grey & blue jeans metallic
  • Location: SoCal
Re: Voltage Drop - NOT Park Problem
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2022, 05:58:27 pm »
The original converter has a dumb battery charger section that runs at 100% whenever it’s connected to ac, regardless of the battery  charge level. Maybe it’s shorting out and drawing too many amps. Try disconnecting one of the battery cables before connecting to shore power.


« Last Edit: October 06, 2022, 06:26:17 pm by CalCruiser »
Goin' where the wind goes...

*

thrutraffic

  • ****
  • 87
    • View Profile
  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: Used
  • PurchDate: 9/1/2018
  • Model: 2551
  • ModelYear: 2011
  • Slide: Yes
  • IntColor: Sand
  • ExtColor: White/Bronze Lower
  • Location: NC
Re: Voltage Drop - NOT Park Problem
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2022, 06:11:55 pm »
Measure voltage with a decent RMS voltmeter.  What's the voltage at the pedestal?  Plug in the cord to the pedestal but not the RV, measure voltage at the shore cable plug?  Same voltage?  Try to have everything turned off and disconnect house batteries (so they won't be charged).  How's the voltage at the electrical outlet in the driver's transition side outlet (under the generator and inverter panels).  Still same voltage?  Now put a cup of water in the microwave and heat it and while the microwave is running, what' s the voltage at that same transition outlet on the driver's side.

If all is normal then turn off microwave and turn on a/c and when the compressor starts, and is running, what's the voltage?

Number 1 culprit would be the start capicator in the A/C or the compressor itself.

One other thing would be arc damage to transfer switch poles.  At 11 years old, I would replace it.



Klein Tools CL380 Digital Clamp Meter
Pedestal voltage is irrelevant but it's one volt higher that rig when connected. Remember, same problems exist when shore power disconnected and running on generator.
How are house batteries drawing down 120v shore power??? I'll try it tomorrow.
Voltage drops no matter what outlet you test it at or what device is being used to draw it down. Convection drops 118 to 113. Toaster drops 118 to 115. Water heater drops 118 to 115. Those are all different circuits; points back to system issue not a particular circuit.
Start capacitor tests good. A/C isn't the problem. Voltage drops regardless of the A/C state.
Transfer switch connections are shiny shiny, look new. Contactor pads are fine.

*

thrutraffic

  • ****
  • 87
    • View Profile
  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: Used
  • PurchDate: 9/1/2018
  • Model: 2551
  • ModelYear: 2011
  • Slide: Yes
  • IntColor: Sand
  • ExtColor: White/Bronze Lower
  • Location: NC
Re: Voltage Drop - NOT Park Problem
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2022, 06:13:17 pm »
The original converter has a dumb battery charger section that runs at 100% whenever it’s connected to ac, regardless of the battery  charge level. Maybe it’s shorting out and drawing too many amps. Try disconnecting one of the battery cables before connecting to shore power.

Will do first thing tomorrow morning.

*

thrutraffic

  • ****
  • 87
    • View Profile
  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: Used
  • PurchDate: 9/1/2018
  • Model: 2551
  • ModelYear: 2011
  • Slide: Yes
  • IntColor: Sand
  • ExtColor: White/Bronze Lower
  • Location: NC
Re: Voltage Drop - NOT Park Problem
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2022, 06:54:50 pm »
This surge protector is also a good troubleshooting tool. You can monitor the total load in amps and watts and pole voltage with your phone inside the coach while switching individual appliances or circuit breakers  on or off.

https://hughesautoformers.com/power-watchdog-smart-surge-protectors/


Friend of mine has the PWD 50. He was just here using it ~two weeks ago. Nice device. Not going to help me with this problem though. These diagnose the connection to shore power. My problem isn't with shore (park) power.

*

CalCruiser

  • ******
  • 670
    • View Profile
  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: Used
  • PurchDate: November 2015
  • Model: 2350 Ford
  • ModelYear: 2003
  • Slide: Yes
  • IntColor: Hickory/ Beige
  • ExtColor: Custom Ford colors- dark shadow grey & blue jeans metallic
  • Location: SoCal
Re: Voltage Drop - NOT Park Problem
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2022, 07:13:30 pm »
I have a Hughes PWD30. It displays the total amps and watts in real time on your phone. You could turn off individiual circuit breakers or appliances to determine the actual load from each circuit. Of course you can do the same with the clamp-on  meter if you have an access point inside the coach and don’t need a surge protector.
Goin' where the wind goes...

*

Joseph

  • *******
  • 1053
    • View Profile
  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: Used
  • PurchDate: 3/7/2015
  • Model: 2552
  • ModelYear: 2011
  • Slide: Yes
  • IntColor: Tan/Cherry
  • ExtColor: Gray / White
  • Location: California
Re: Voltage Drop - NOT Park Problem
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2022, 10:23:46 pm »
 There’s a couple of members here who always amaze me. One is Lance. (Engineer). Couple others too Garp and I can’t recall.  Anyway hopefully they will see this and chime in.  I think some here also posted wiring schematics.  Sorry I’m of no other help

*

mikeh

  • ******
  • 437
    • View Profile
  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: New
  • PurchDate: 02/2019
  • Model: 2552
  • ModelYear: 2019
  • Slide: Yes
  • IntColor: Toast
  • ExtColor: Toast
  • Location: Oklahoma
Re: Voltage Drop - NOT Park Problem
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2022, 12:43:41 am »
THRUTRAFFIC--
First, I have to say that I haven't had occasion to try to track this type issue in my 2552; AC supply has always been fine.  Therefore, I don't even know how much (if any) voltage drop I get (shore power or generator) with a NORMAL system when applying a heavy load such as A/C or microwave.  That would be good to know.  However, 3 volts with a toaster or 5 volts with a 15-amp load that you mentioned definitely sound excessive.


Excessive voltage drop usually comes from one of two things--either there is a high-resistance connection somewhere in the line dropping the voltage, or something in the circuit is pulling too much current dropping the voltage.  The difference is that if something is pulling too much current, the voltage drop will show up all the way back to the voltage source (transfer switch output in this case).  If there is a high resistance connection, voltage on the supply side of that connection will be normal, but voltage on the load side of the resistance will drop low.

I would check voltage at the output of your transfer switch (ideally on both external and generator power).  If it holds relatively normal there when you apply a load, the problem is downstream--probably a high resistance connection somewhere in the main feed wire.  However if it drops there when you apply the load, check the inputs to the transfer switch;. if it drops there check back toward the actual inputs to the coach (at the generator and main cable connector).  Since you said you found no issues under load at the lot power, if you've got a drop at the transfer switch output--the problem has to be somewhere between the two.  The Klein Tools CL380 is a 400 amp meter, so you should be able to check (again at the transfer switch) for excessive current going somewhere with no actual load that you've applied.  That's probably not a high percentage problem, but not impossible.
Mike

*

donc13

  • *******
  • 1358
    • View Profile
  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: New
  • PurchDate: 03/2015
  • Model: 2551
  • ModelYear: 2015
  • Slide: Yes
  • IntColor: Nightscape/Hickory
  • ExtColor: White/Nightscape
  • Location: Colorado
Re: Voltage Drop - NOT Park Problem
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2022, 07:22:41 am »
Measure voltage with a decent RMS voltmeter.  What's the voltage at the pedestal?  Plug in the cord to the pedestal but not the RV, measure voltage at the shore cable plug?  Same voltage?  Try to have everything turned off and disconnect house batteries (so they won't be charged).  How's the voltage at the electrical outlet in the driver's transition side outlet (under the generator and inverter panels).  Still same voltage?  Now put a cup of water in the microwave and heat it and while the microwave is running, what' s the voltage at that same transition outlet on the driver's side.

If all is normal then turn off microwave and turn on a/c and when the compressor starts, and is running, what's the voltage?

Number 1 culprit would be the start capicator in the A/C or the compressor itself.

One other thing would be arc damage to transfer switch poles.  At 11 years old, I would replace it.



Klein Tools CL380 Digital Clamp Meter
Pedestal voltage is irrelevant but it's one volt higher that rig when connected. Remember, same problems exist when shore power disconnected and running on generator.
How are house batteries drawing down 120v shore power??? I'll try it tomorrow.
Voltage drops no matter what outlet you test it at or what device is being used to draw it down. Convection drops 118 to 113. Toaster drops 118 to 115. Water heater drops 118 to 115. Those are all different circuits; points back to system issue not a particular circuit.
Start capacitor tests good. A/C isn't the problem. Voltage drops regardless of the A/C state.
Transfer switch connections are shiny shiny, look new. Contactor pads are fine.


The converter-charger draws 120v to charge the batteries, in some cases whether they need it of not.
The pedestal power is your reference or start voltage.
From all you have said, the issue is in your A/C probably the compressor itself.

The microwave and the A/C each draw about the same amount of power (10amp run load), you have no problems running the microwave by itself but do have problems when you run the A/C itself.
---
Don and Patti

*

parkgt

  • ****
  • 56
    • View Profile
  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: Used
  • Model: 2552
  • Slide: Yes
  • Location: Western AR
Re: Voltage Drop - NOT Park Problem
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2022, 08:02:58 am »
There’s a couple of members here who always amaze me. One is Lance. (Engineer). Couple others too Garp and I can’t recall.  Anyway hopefully they will see this and chime in.  I think some here also posted wiring schematics.  Sorry I’m of no other help

Unfortunately Lance got tired of dealing with some know-it-all members and quit the forum.

*

thrutraffic

  • ****
  • 87
    • View Profile
  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: Used
  • PurchDate: 9/1/2018
  • Model: 2551
  • ModelYear: 2011
  • Slide: Yes
  • IntColor: Sand
  • ExtColor: White/Bronze Lower
  • Location: NC
Re: Voltage Drop - NOT Park Problem
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2022, 09:15:02 am »

Number 1 culprit would be the start capicator in the A/C or the compressor itself.


From all you have said, the issue is in your A/C probably the compressor itself.


How can it possibly be the a/c compressor when the problem exists when the a/c is not running??? A/C just happens to be the highest drawing device in my rig. And I tested the 55/15 capacitor; results 54/14.
The toaster causes it.
My Keurig Mini causes it.
My hot water heater causes it.
My 15a ceramics kiln from my shop causes it.
The convection oven causes it.

ITS NOT THE A/C UNIT!

*

thrutraffic

  • ****
  • 87
    • View Profile
  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: Used
  • PurchDate: 9/1/2018
  • Model: 2551
  • ModelYear: 2011
  • Slide: Yes
  • IntColor: Sand
  • ExtColor: White/Bronze Lower
  • Location: NC
Re: Voltage Drop - NOT Park Problem
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2022, 09:16:00 am »
The original converter has a dumb battery charger section that runs at 100% whenever it’s connected to ac, regardless of the battery  charge level. Maybe it’s shorting out and drawing too many amps. Try disconnecting one of the battery cables before connecting to shore power.

Pulled the main battery terminal. Problem persists.

*

Joseph

  • *******
  • 1053
    • View Profile
  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: Used
  • PurchDate: 3/7/2015
  • Model: 2552
  • ModelYear: 2011
  • Slide: Yes
  • IntColor: Tan/Cherry
  • ExtColor: Gray / White
  • Location: California
Re: Voltage Drop - NOT Park Problem
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2022, 10:16:16 am »
ParkGT …Lance left?   Oh man we lost a wealth of knowledge and from every post I ever read of his a really decent guy.

Sorry off topic.