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Overloading Camper 120V 30 Amp Electrical System

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Engineerlt

Overloading Camper 120V 30 Amp Electrical System
« on: March 13, 2022, 06:06:15 pm »
I have a question for those of you who have a 120V 30amp shore power connection.  When inside your camper how do you monitor or do you monitor your amperage, so you don't over load the wiring? I use the progressive surge protector with the LED readout so I can look through the back window at the power hook-up and see the LED readout. This allows me to see how much amperage we are drawing and to try and keep it below the 30 amp max.  Well this trip, somehow I managed to pull more then the 30 amps and started to melt down the plug on my shore power cord. I think between the hot water heater, refrigerator, A/C and my wife using a handheld hair dryer it was just to much (41.2 amps). She just got in a hurry and didn't turn off the hot water heater and A/C.

So don't count on the 30 amp breaker at the power connection to trip, as well as the 30 amp breaker in the coach to trip. After the event I went out and bought another 30 amp breaker for the RV and changed it out, but I can still overload the circuit without the breaker tripping. If this happened on generator power the breaker at the generator would trip.

What I am thinking is I need something inside the RV that you can see the amperage reading easily. Have any one of you mounted a meter inside so you can see the amperage reading so you don't melt down your electrical system? If  so tell me what your solution is. I am currently looking at some meters online, before I make the purchase I would like to know what you are using.
Very Respectfully
Lance
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Gixxerkid3

Re: Overloading Camper 120V 30 Amp Electrical System
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2022, 09:39:37 pm »
I personally use the Power Watchdog with Emergency Power Off (EPO).  I can watch and get alerts on my phone via Bluetooth.
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mikeh

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Re: Overloading Camper 120V 30 Amp Electrical System
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2022, 12:22:39 am »
Lance,
My unit is a 50-amp coach.  I was able to spec the Progressive internal hardwired EMS/surge protector system as an option when I ordered it.  The display mounts on the transition wall with all the other readouts.  It provides voltage, current, and frequency readings on both 120-volt circuits, as well as error codes for "over/under" faults.  The location makes it easy to monitor and it does a good job of analyzing and protecting the circuits.
Mike
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donc13

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Re: Overloading Camper 120V 30 Amp Electrical System
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2022, 08:45:40 am »
I use a plug in monitor.  It was made by a company called Power Watch and is called "Good Governor".  It checks polarity, ground, voltage and frequency.   It plugs into a standard wall socket and the digital display alternates between frequency and voltage.  The frequency on shore power is always 60 Hz.  Using the generator if the frequency drops below 58 Hz I know I am drawing too much power.  Using shore power, if the voltage gets below 106v I know the RV Park I am at is being over loaded.

Unfortunately, the company that made them is out of business but this product https://www.rvupgradestore.com/Surge-Guard-Electra-Check-Digital-Power-p/19-0489.htm  does the same thing.
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Volkemon

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Re: Overloading Camper 120V 30 Amp Electrical System
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2022, 09:27:05 am »
We got this unit, and it shows power usage - cumulative and current.  Uses a phone app. I have been very happy with ours.

https://www.amazon.com/Hughes-Autoformers-PWD30-EPO-Spike-Watchdog/dp/B07PRS5NPB



I found this line in your post interesting -
Quote
After the event I went out and bought another 30 amp breaker for the RV and changed it out, but I can still overload the circuit without the breaker tripping.

How many amps for how long are you measuring? Have you experimented to see how long, and how big an overload can be sustained before a breaker trips or other indicator causes you to stop the test?

I have observed brief 'overloads' above 30A with our monitor, especially when the AC starts.  I do not recall exact numbers.  :-[


I have had one shore power cord have a 'meltdown', on the female (cord side) terminal where it plugs into the coach. (Fortunately it did not damage the male part installed in the camper) I attributed it to poor connection from fatigue in the connectors, this making resistance that generated heat. Not an uncommon issue, I did not see fit to dissect the melted connector to see exactly where the heat had been generated.  Upon replacement with another female end on the same cord, the same load has been carried without any problem.  Was you meltdown at a connection point in the circuit, or in the wire run itself?

I have never actively tried to overload the circuits in the camper to trip a breaker. We did have a post breaker at a campground that tripped if we tried to use the Microwave and AC at the same time. The inside breaker did not trip. I know breakers have a cycle life, and figured that post one was past its service life end.

Here at home I have the camper plugged into a 50A 220V circuit using an adapter. So the wiring up to the 30A main breaker in the coach can experience 50A draw, and the 30A  breaker in the coach panel would be my only protection.


I find it odd that neither the circuit breaker in the post nor the breaker in the coach tripped. Circuit breakers are a generally recognized safety item, and pretty well proven.  More data is in order to see if there is a safety issue here, and where it might be.  VERY important issue, however.  (exactly)





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Engineerlt

Re: Overloading Camper 120V 30 Amp Electrical System
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2022, 09:45:43 am »
Hello Volkemon yes my cord melted at the female plug and didn't hurt the coaches male plug. Like you I attributed part of the meltdown to probably fatigue of the females contacts. This however led me to keep a closer eye on the power where I realized that we were overloading the circuit occasionally. I have seen this meter  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JB9B2QL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1    its in expensive and I have seen on other forum sites where people are using it for the same purpose. It seems maybe a little to inexpensive and quality maybe suspect. It however has some good reviews, and I could mount it by the generator controls and connect it in the auto transfer switch below.  It would be an easy setup. One other thought would be I could monitor the out put of the transfer switch this way I would see the generator as well.

Very Respectfully
Lance
« Last Edit: March 14, 2022, 06:19:25 pm by Engineerlt »
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LRUCH

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Re: Overloading Camper 120V 30 Amp Electrical System
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2022, 10:00:20 pm »
I too have the Power Watchdog with Emergency Power Off (EPO).  I rely upon it not only for monitoring and limiting power usages day to day,  but also for diagnostics and analysis.

Here are a couple examples.

1. In a small RV park in Cape Canaveral after a couple hours after setting up, it repeatedly tripped because the voltage dropped too low (in the range of 97 volts if I remember right).  Other campers were returning and cracking up their AC units.  I showed the app on my phone for the watch dog to the park manager and she moved me to a different side of the park immediately. It's hard to argue with facts.  The watch dog protected my AC from a brown out!  I was the first to know "why" this was happening and got the last open spacee on a better power supply... You snooze, you lose.

2.Any time I make an electrical change on the PC I use the watch dog to verify the impact.  It was nice to see how the penguin AC spiked originally, and how it just slightly increased after adding a soft start. I do this for every new electric  appliance or repair... Permanent or just visiting .... Instapot, air compressor, you name it. I watch the amps & volts before and after, as well as the spike.  It might take a few On/Off cycles to catch it on the app, but eventually you will (I've sent a request to the app developer to add a histogram graph to make this easier).  I keep a  diary of every appliance on my phone of how big of electricity consumer it is.

When you are on generator power you get a sense of the load from the sounds of the generator, but on a cord, you're clueless without an active monitor.
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Engineerlt

Re: Overloading Camper 120V 30 Amp Electrical System
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2022, 08:44:16 am »
Hello LRUCH
I use the Progressive Industries EMS-PT30X it does most of the functions yours does with the exception of Bluetooth. It has tripped on low voltage before as well.  This is actually my second one, the first one got moisture damage and Progressive replaced it for free. I wish however that I had an internally mounted unit, so I didn't have to drag it out and plug it in every time. If it had Bluetooth that would be even better. I am currently vested in this model and it works, If this one gets stolen or destroyed beyond manufactures lifetime warranty then I will up grade to the Watchdog PWD30-EPO-H. 

Well heck, just looked up the Progressive Industries EMS-PT30X and it appears they have changed names to Park Power  and only offer a 60 month warranty from date of manufacture. I feel violated!  I may end-up with the Watchdog before I know it..... Life is ever changing....

Very Respectfully
Lance
« Last Edit: March 15, 2022, 08:53:21 am by Engineerlt »
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Volkemon

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Re: Overloading Camper 120V 30 Amp Electrical System
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2022, 08:36:28 am »
Quote from: LRUCH on March 14, 2022, 10:00:20 pm

 (I've sent a request to the app developer to add a histogram graph to make this easier). 

I was just messing with mine yesterday and was dreaming of a power graphing function. BLESS YOU for sending that in.  heartshower heartshower

Tested mine with the AC on, microwave running (heating a bowl of water on 100%) and water heater on electric. Didn't catch the peak reading, held a steady 36 amps per the watchdog for ~2 min until the compressor turned off.  Did not test further.


Quote
It was nice to see how the penguin AC spiked originally, and how it just slightly increased after adding a soft start.

I have a friend in the driveway with a 26 foot Jayco trailer, and it has this AC on it:

https://www.etrailer.com/RV-Air-Conditioners/Advent-Air/ACDOM135.html



Not sure if its a 13K or 15K, I would imagine its  15K for the size of the trailer. We ran ~175 feet of 12Ga extension cord to the trailer from the house so he could run the fridge, coffee maker and phone chargers.
On plugging the camper in with a 15a > 30a adapter, then going inside, we found out the AC was on.   :-[   Running great.   :beg  We even let it cycle the compressor on and off a couple times, while I felt the cord and connectors for hot spots. None found in our brief check. 20A breaker on that circuit that sometimes trips if I use my big metal chop saw on it. This AC managed to run fine. We only let it run ~15 min or so, just to be sure the compressor did indeed start again. I was VERY impressed.

 ""Start capacitor jumpstarts the AC when a campsite or generator doesn't provide enough power. Stores energy that will later be used for the next startup"" really does mean something!!

If the weather goes to rain again today I may try a longer test, and even maybe go for 'circuit breaker trip' test conditions. I would rather find out here in the driveway than at a festival.




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LRUCH

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Re: Overloading Camper 120V 30 Amp Electrical System
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2022, 01:39:25 pm »
Hi Volkeman,

I just checked my email history and it's been over a year since I requested the histogram improvement to the WatchDog app (time flies when you're out enjoying your PC).  I think it's time I submit it again. I'll reply here if/when I get a response.  :cool

Larry
« Last Edit: March 17, 2022, 07:27:21 pm by LRUCH »
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Engineerlt

Re: Overloading Camper 120V 30 Amp Electrical System
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2022, 01:23:41 pm »
Well I installed the meter from Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JB9B2QL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1). It works like I hoped, and it has some cool features as well. You can set a alarm for maximum amperage, when you set the alarm off the backlight on the gauge starts flashing, and its very noticeable.  Then it calculates the power used and you can reset it, so if you are at a campsite you can see how much power you have consumed.  Plus I can now see the load on the generator as well.

Very Respectfully
Lance
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Re: Overloading Camper 120V 30 Amp Electrical System
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2022, 05:53:47 pm »
Regarding the Progressive Industries EMS-PT30X, I just received my third one under warranty in the last 7 years or so. As in Lance’s  case both of mine had moisture issues, as indicated by obvious moisture showing in the digital display. Both lasted just about 3 years.
As far as the warranty, the technician indicated they still have a limited life time.  To submit a claim they require a picture of the plug and receptacle and in my case their invoice number.
Being paranoid I immediately went out and bought another, so now have two.
Where two have now failed, I am wondering if it would be wise to put a plastic bag over the pedestal to protect it during inclement weather?
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RollinInn

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Re: Overloading Camper 120V 30 Amp Electrical System
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2022, 07:34:38 pm »
I just saw this thread so I'll put my 2-cents worth in.   Ever since I started RV-ing 20 years ago, I made a Word document listing all the appliances in my RV's with their amp draws on it. Now I didn't need it for my last 2 RV's:
1. my last 2 motorhomes had EMS's built in & would automatically shed loads if I reached peak amp.
2. my last 2 motorhomes were 50a so I didn't have to think about any monitoring unless I was in a 30a site.

I laminated that Word doc & it's always been stuck to the inside cabinet door above the sink (I even had it in my last 2 50a coaches even though I didn't really need it).  So I guess I'm just "old school".  I know how much each appliance draws at peak amp & I'm my own monitor for making sure I don't go near or over my total amp rating.   Now that I have my PC & am back to 30a, I will again be my own monitor on appliance usage.
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