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Crank battery charging

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Tarnold

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Crank battery charging
« on: May 01, 2020, 02:26:20 pm »
2nd try at this post, so sorry if it pops up again.  Following the trik l start thread, do I read that the crank battery is charged ONLY from the alternator, even if plugged in to AC if no trik l start is present?
Now looking at trikLStart and see prices from $30 at one place to 75 on amazon.  Also see different revisions, so would a higher revision letter be more current?

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mikeh

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Re: Crank battery charging
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2020, 03:41:52 pm »
Hi Terry,

In the standard PC wiring arrangement, there is no provision for the chassis (cranking) battery to normally receive charge current from any source but the engine alternator. The house battery bank is charged from various sources--when the rig is plugged in to AC, or if the Onan generator is running, it receives charge from the converter; if the unit is equipped with solar, it receives charge from the solar controller; and when the truck engine is running, it receives charge from the engine alternator through that relay that we were discussing in the Trik-L-Start thread you referenced. But the cranking battery does not receive any of this charge.

I emphasized the word "normally", because the one exception is with use of that "white switch" on the dash that was also being discussed in the other thread. If the white switch is depressed, it activates that relay that is normally used to send alternator charge current to the house battery bank.  But with the engine not running, if the house battery bank is at a higher voltage level than the chassis battery, when the relay activates the current can flow in reverse from the house batteries to the chassis battery.  That can happen if the chassis battery is somewhat dead (the original purpose of the white switch), or if the house batteries are being charged by another source--plugged in to AC, generator running, or solar charging.

Basically, all the Trik-L-Start does is bypass that relay to connect the house batteries and chassis cranking battery all the time with a one-way circuit from the house batteries to the crank battery--and let that charge current flow any time the house batteries are at a higher voltage.  As pointed out by others, even with the Trik-L-Start if the house battery bank isn't being charged from some source, or at a higher voltage potential, there will be no current flow to the chassis crank battery.

To complete the picture there is one last point.  The recommendation made by Keelhauler (and others) to replace the original "momentary-type" white dash switch with a permanent on/off switch can potentially provide the same effect as using the Trik-L-Start.  The momentary switch only activates the big charging relay to allow charge current from the house batteries to the crank battery while the switch is held in--so it will not work for long-term charging.  By replacing that momentary switch with a switch that can be left on permanently, the charge relay is held in full time and effectively can charge the chassis crank battery full time like a Trik-L-Start.  I personally don't know what practical negatives can come from this, but Keelhauler has stated that (with solar charging his house batteries), he uses this method in long-term storage to keep his chassis battery charged.

To address your other point, I have seen the different revision letters on the Trik-L-Start. I would assume the higher revision letter would be a later model.

Mike

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keelhauler

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Re: Crank battery charging
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2020, 04:07:44 pm »
Mike, That was a really good explanation and I agree with it all.

Myself and others have changed that white switch to an on-off switch and leave on when ever I want my chassis battery charged.
It takes 5 minutes to change to an on-off switch and the electrical terminals slide off of the old switch and on to new switch. So disconnect the existing switch, take to autozone, get a new on-off switch that is same size, less than $10.

However to be clear, you either have to be plugged into 110V or have solar panels for any charging of the vehicle battery to happen. I monitor both sets of batteries and never let any go below 50% (12.1 V). My batteries last for 7 years or more.



John

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Tarnold

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Re: Crank battery charging
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2020, 04:36:33 pm »
Good, now get to do  more shopping.  Already bought a new crank battery today.  Pulled PC over to house.  Before plugging in to 30 amp checked voltage on crank battery 12.3v.  Plugged in and let thing settle. Checked voltage again and down to 11.93, later down to 11.90 !! Off to Walmart.  Last week wouldn’t turn over even with white switch.  Charged for a few hours at 15amp and started right up.  Mine is a 2013 chassis and had a motor craft battery, might have been original.

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keelhauler

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Re: Crank battery charging
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2020, 09:00:52 am »
Tarnold - Now just change that white switch to an on-ff and you won't have to worry about ruining your new battery. There is always a power draw on chassis battery and even when I'm camping about once a week I need to flip the switch on for a few hours.



John

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custerhank

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Re: Crank battery charging
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2020, 01:48:19 pm »
  I just read this great thread. We are new PC owners (had a diesel pusher before). Our DP had a battery-connect which actually did charge the chassis battery when plugged in to shore power so I was caught off-guard until I read this threaf.  The new battery I put in June 1 is already too depleted to start the rig. I have started it a couple times but have not been on the road yet due to Covid. I tried the "little white button" - it lights up the dash lights brightly but not enough juice to start engine. Is that normal?

  I plan to ask my neighbor to put in the on/off switch recommended here instead of buying a separate trickle charger which would likely not survive our weather. He typically gets less shocks than I do. We are 50 miles from most shopping but I assume a simple toggle switch should work. I have one on our 2012 Honda CRV to disconnect the battery fuse when towing - way simpler than trying to pull a super-small micro fuse.

Hank Whitney
Custer SD
2019 PC/3100

Hank & Joyce Whitney
Custer, SD
2019 PC Model 3100

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custerhank

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Re: Crank battery charging
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2020, 02:24:56 pm »
KEELHAULER - Any "cosmetic" issues when replacing the white switch as in..did you find a toggle that fit or just have to drill a couple more holes? I have limited purchase options where we live out in the country (especially with hundreds of thousands of bikers between us and real retail). But I need to do this, Thanks.

Hank Whitney
2019 Model 3100
Hank & Joyce Whitney
Custer, SD
2019 PC Model 3100

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custerhank

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Re: Crank battery charging
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2020, 04:24:13 pm »
KEELHAULER,

  Disregard my last question. I called Sigma switches in Elkhart and the item is available on E-Bay for $5.99 plus $3.50 shipping. Cheaper and way more efficient than a separate trickle charger. Thanks!

Hank Whitney
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Custer, SD
2019 PC Model 3100

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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Crank battery charging
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2020, 05:12:48 pm »
Regarding the momentary switch located by the driver's left knee, I believe it can be disassembled to remove the spring that forces the switch open when you let go.  The only concern of having it constant-on is that when dry camping, if accidentally left on, you drain the house and chassis batteries together, potentially being stranded.  But if you are plugged into 110V power at campsites all the time, then it would be a nice feature.  It might be wise to have an LED indicator located in the house in plain sight to light-up when the switch is left on for chassis battery maintenance.  A really cool feature would be something automatically switching it on (a relay) when plugged into 110V.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 05:19:49 pm by Ron Dittmer »
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keelhauler

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Re: Crank battery charging
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2020, 12:38:28 pm »
A standard on-off switch pops right into the opening. Best route to take. If you forget to turn the switch off you will find when you close the side door your steps will go in, even if you have the door switch on.  I have solar arrays, so when I am in storage with no 120v power, all my batteries stay charged, I even leave the Fantastic Fan on, controlled by the thermostat switch to keep the unit a little cooler inside.



John

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custerhank

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Re: Crank battery charging
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2020, 06:00:37 pm »
We are always plugged into shore power at home - we have FHU right next to the house including 20/30/50 power and a sewer clean out for macerator dumping. But the tip on dry camping is good although we do lots more of hook-up style camping. Turns out our PC is 50 Amp with 2 A/C's although I cannot envision needing both. The on-off switch should be here next week. I called the company in Elkhart but they sell through EBay.

Hank
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donc13

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Re: Crank battery charging
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2020, 08:13:31 pm »
The Trik-l-Start is $55 shipped.    Quick install in the engine compartment and works.   No worries about swapping out the dash switch, or forgetting to turn the switch off or pulling the spring out of the original switch.

It's worth it.
---
Don and Patti

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jfcaramagno

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Re: Crank battery charging
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2020, 04:28:51 pm »
What Don said.  2o2
John and Carol

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custerhank

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Re:Trickle Charging/ Crank battery charging
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2020, 05:09:06 pm »
  Previous posts were very helpful. Just realized our new-to-us 2019/3100 had been sitting back at home (plugged in to shore power) for 2 months since our 1st extended trip. I had replaced the spring-loaded white trickle switch with an off/off version. But I forgot to turn it on a while back for winter storage (at home). Of course the chassis battery is now dead. So I just turned on the trickle switch and will see if it eventually works, The battery is only 5 months old so hoping it will bounce back.

Hank
At Home in Custer SD
Hank & Joyce Whitney
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jatrax

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Re: Crank battery charging
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2020, 11:09:12 pm »
Hank, any chance you have the ebay link or the model number for that switch?  I'm thinking I should go ahead and swap mine out as well.