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Dead battery

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garmp

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Dead battery
« on: April 22, 2020, 04:25:01 pm »
Went to start our coach at the storage lot today and the battery is dead. Started the generator and ran it while we were there. Held down the white switch on the dash and still nothing. Turned the switch to the down position and it rocks back to the original position. Held it down for about 20 minutes and still won't start. Got dash lights this time, but no start.
Going back over there tomorrow with jumper cable. What am I doing wrong with the white switch? It's suppose to be there to start off house batteries, is it not?
Jack is what we call our PC 2351D, and he has taken us from campers to RV'ers and loving it. We're no longer Team Bob. Just Jack the RV!

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2 Lucky

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Re: Dead battery
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2020, 05:17:51 pm »
I'm guessing your coach batteries are full and the coach battery disconnect is not disconnected and you held down the white rocker switch while turning the ignition key and you don't have a chassis battery disconnect and you have good battery connections...water in the battery?? Fingers crossed while you hold down the switch?
Riding the fine line between bravery and stupidity since infancy.

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jatrax

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Re: Dead battery
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2020, 07:18:27 pm »
I've found that the white switch on the dash is useless if the battery is completely dead.  The wires connecting to the coach battery are fairly small.  Both times I tried using it I just blew the fuse that is located near the interconnect under the hood.  I think if the chassis battery is weak but still has some power the interconnect will allow you to get started but if the chassis is dead you need jumper cables.  I'm also not 100% sure I understand how the interconnect is supposed to work.  I got conflicting answers when I asked at the factory.  And I believe the way it works has changed over the years so different model years might be different.

I bought a set of jumper cables long enough to reach from the coach battery to the chassis battery and that has worked fine. 

My chassis battery is also dead this spring and I had installed a Trik-L-Start which should have kept it charged up.  I have not had time to tear things apart and see what went wrong.  The solar panels kept the coach battery in good shape so there was plenty of power.

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keelhauler

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Re: Dead battery
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2020, 11:27:26 am »
I've answered this question many times.
1. Your Ford battery will go dead because of the computer. So either disconnect or put it on a trickle charger.
2. Yes that switch next to steering wheel will charge the Ford battery but it is a momentary and you need to hold it. Takes too long especially if the Ford battery is really discharged. what I did is just replace it with an on-off switch. Switch pops out and wires side off, a 5 minute job, cost about $10 or less.
3. So whenever I will be parked for more than a week, I turn that switch on until the Ford battery is charged. If you don't let it get too discharged the battery will last for 8 years.
4. I have solar panels so when I'm in long time store I just leave that switch on.
5. Some things you will find when switch is in the on position. The step will go in, even if step switch is on and your awning will not go in or out.
6. No leaving it on will NOT hurt anything.



John

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zolman

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Re: Dead battery
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2020, 12:48:01 pm »
Get a Trik-L-Start. It's a full proof way of keeping all your batteries charged.

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garmp

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Re: Dead battery
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2020, 03:52:38 pm »
Really appreciate the replies. If the rain ever stops, we'll head back to the storage lot and jump it and then drive it around for a bit.
And as a second thought, I'm not sure I had the coach batteries disconnected or not. Oh well, jump it and be done with it.
Thanks again for all the help.
Jack is what we call our PC 2351D, and he has taken us from campers to RV'ers and loving it. We're no longer Team Bob. Just Jack the RV!

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2 Lucky

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Re: Dead battery
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2020, 04:31:57 pm »
Let us know what you discover. I highly recommend having a portable jump starter. I try to always have mine with me in whatever vehicle I'm using (if I remember to bring it.)  Really nice to have if you need to rescue someone else or are out in the boonies by yourself.
Good luck, and try the fingers crossed trick.
Riding the fine line between bravery and stupidity since infancy.

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garmp

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Re: Dead battery
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2020, 01:24:22 pm »
Well got it jump started and let it run for a while. Tried to start again and nothing, jumped it again. Drove around this time for a good 45 minutes, on the highway and street, stop & go traffic. Drove it home, not to the storage lot. Tried to start again and nothing. So it's off to the store, Monday, for a battery and this time will get a disconnect switch. HOA will just have to live with it.
Safe travels all when things break.

Team Bob
Jack is what we call our PC 2351D, and he has taken us from campers to RV'ers and loving it. We're no longer Team Bob. Just Jack the RV!

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keelhauler

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Re: Dead battery
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2020, 08:53:18 am »
Did you remove both terminals from the battery and clean them, some corrosion on terminal will prevent charging. Also if you have a digital voltmeter plug it into to dashboard 12v socket or just clip on to the battery. The battery voltage should jump up to 14.5v while charging. You could have a problem with the alternator.



John

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Doneworking

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Re: Dead battery
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2020, 10:18:14 am »
I've used these on my RVs for the coach and chassis batteries for over 25 years.   They are simple and cheap, just my cup of coffee (tea). 

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Battery-Cutoff-Switch-Car-Rv-Boat-Truck-Link-Terminal-Quick-Disconnect-Kill-Key/119498120

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GHS

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Re: Dead battery
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2020, 12:23:41 pm »
One of the first things I did when we got our coach in 2017 was to put a trickle charger on the engine battery for the winter months mid Nov thru Feb when it is parked. OE Motor-craft battery (2016) still died in 2019. Noticed it was cranking slower than usual last mid-year so in went a new cranking battery.

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garmp

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Re: Dead battery
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2020, 12:37:03 pm »
Doneworking, just bought one of those today, so tomorrow when the new battery goes in this switch will be added.
thanks all
Jack is what we call our PC 2351D, and he has taken us from campers to RV'ers and loving it. We're no longer Team Bob. Just Jack the RV!

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jim.godfrey

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Re: Dead battery
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2020, 09:24:02 pm »
Took a look at the charging relay (controlled by the white switch) on my 2552. So I believe I found a 40 amp self resetting circuit breaker in line with the relay using what looks to be a #6awg wiring. Should be able to charge up your chassis battery pretty quick. What I did was hold the rocker switch on just until I heard it the big relay click, then turned on the ignition (but not try to start) I could then release the switch and the contactor remained latched in until I turned off the ignition. I guess this is how they intend you to use it. Don't really need to change the switch.
While in there I did find something interesting (disappointing): My Trik-L-Start seems to be wired improperly. The yellow wire which is supposed to go on the positive from the coach battery is not tied to the large coach battery wire on the top of the relay but instead is connected to the positive side of the relay coil located at the bottom of the big relay. This terminal only has power when the rocker switch is pushed or the relay is latched in. So basically If I'm seeing this right, the Trik-L-Start is only really working when the 40 amp charging circuit is activated. Kind of makes it useless. Somebody on the forum recently mentioned that they had a Trik_L-Start but their battery died anyways. Wonder if this is a common mis-wiring from Phoenix?
One thing to note. Even though my Trik-L-Start is mis-wired, The light indicating "maintaining" was illuminated. It was only when I latched in the big relay that the "charging" light went on. So don't assume because you see the top light on that everything is ok. If you see a yellow wire connecting to one of the small screws at the bottom of the big relay, you likely have the same issue. If I'm right about this, I hope this helps somebody. If I'm wrong, well you got what you paid for.  roflol

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Engineerlt

Re: Dead battery
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2020, 06:36:28 am »
Hello Jim
I believe you are correct that your Trik-L-Start maybe wired incorrectly. Yellow goes to the house battery, Blue to the chassis battery and black to ground. Also the way I understand the chassis white rocker switch on the dash is that when you hold it on it closes the relay allowing the chassis battery to reach a state of equilibrium with the house batteries.  However the relay is also closed when the coach is started allowing the alternator to charge the coach batteries while driving down the road. I don't believe that is a latching relay, so when the ignition switch is on the relay closes. That is at least how mine is wired.

This wiring diagram however shows it differently, It shows another set of contacts that don't exist on mine. It opens and blocks the house and chassis batteries from becoming connected. On mine if you follow the wiring you can trace one of the wires on the load side of the relay to the house batteries and the other to the chassis battery. So anytime that relay closes it actually places the chassis and house batteries in parallel.

Lance
« Last Edit: April 27, 2020, 07:07:49 am by Engineerlt »

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mikeh

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Re: Dead battery
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2020, 09:41:04 am »
While in there I did find something interesting (disappointing): My Trik-L-Start seems to be wired improperly. The yellow wire which is supposed to go on the positive from the coach battery is not tied to the large coach battery wire on the top of the relay but instead is connected to the positive side of the relay coil located at the bottom of the big relay. This terminal only has power when the rocker switch is pushed or the relay is latched in. So basically If I'm seeing this right, the Trik-L-Start is only really working when the 40 amp charging circuit is activated. Kind of makes it useless. Somebody on the forum recently mentioned that they had a Trik_L-Start but their battery died anyways. Wonder if this is a common mis-wiring from Phoenix?

Hi Jim,

I'm going to make a little stretch and say that you definitely got a mis-wire on your Trik-L-Start from Phoenix.  I mentioned earlier that, to my surprise, I found a factory installed Trik-L-Start on my 2019 after I got it home.  I had actually already bought one to self-install, but was able to gift that forward after I found the one from Phoenix.  Anyway, my factory unit is properly installed using the two main connections for house and chassis batteries on the charging relay--yellow on the house terminal and blue on the chassis terminal.  I believe whoever made that connection for your unit at Phoenix got the wrong terminal connection for the yellow wire--as you say, pretty much makes your Trik-L-Start redundant until you move that wire.

Also, for what it's worth, I believe your assessment of how to use the "white switch" is exactly right.  Much speculation on the forum over time on this subject.  The primary purpose of that big relay is to provide alternator charging to the coach batteries when the engine is running of course, and it is normally energized from the chassis battery system when you turn the key on and start the engine.  But sometime in the past someone at Phoenix realized that if they could still energize that relay with the chassis battery dead, the circuit could be used in reverse to feed coach battery power to the dead chassis battery--hence  the "white switch" that will feed a 12-volt signal from the coach batteries to activate the relay.  Once activated for a few seconds (with the key switch ON), there is enough voltage present in the chassis battery system to hold the relay in and allow the charge current to continue to flow from the coach batteries to the chassis battery until the key is switched OFF.  Of course, replacing that momentary "white switch" with a permanent off/on switch would accomplish the same thing without having to turn on the key, but you then have the risk of inadvertently having that relay closed when it should not be if you forget to turn the white switch back off (or accidentally bump it on sometime).

Also---that wiring diagram that Lance posted has been around the forum quite a bit, but I'm not sure of the original source for it.  It is definitely helpful to get an overview of a typical 30-amp Phoenix electrical layout, but as Lance mentioned it is neither absolutely accurate nor complete.  I appreciate whoever first made it available, but one should use it as a general reference only.  I wish Phoenix would see fit to publish one at some point.

All the best,      Mike