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Fogging Window

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Engineerlt

Fogging Window
« on: March 14, 2020, 03:31:10 pm »
Hello
I was wondering if anyone has attempted to repair a fogging window? My forward slide-out vent window (bottom left) is fogging up, just noticed it. So I have removed it and separated the panes and cleaned everything up. I was thinking of repairing it myself, I plan on charging it with argon, I have a bottle of it for my tig welder, so I should be able to adapt it to purge the air out from between the panes and then seal it up completely. Does anyone have any ideas? Like I said I spent a couple hours taking the window apart, managing not to break anything. Purchased some structural glazing foam (1/4" x 1/4") and a tube of 3M windshield adhesive.

If you have repaired a thermal pane window before or have an idea that would help me in the repair please let me.

Thanks
Lance >8)

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Engineerlt

Re: Fogging Window
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2020, 03:35:22 pm »
Here is a picture of the window before I took it apart.

Lance

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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Fogging Window
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2020, 09:23:59 am »
Lance,

I believe you are blazing a new trail as I never read anyone trying to repair it.  I am curious how it works out for you.  I do like your approach.

I don't have thermal pane seal issues (yet) but figure it will eventually happen to our PC.  And I love do-it-yourself solutions.

Ron Dittmer
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WillLloyd

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Re: Fogging Window
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2020, 09:24:50 am »
Good luck. I have one on order....

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2 Lucky

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Re: Fogging Window
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2020, 10:47:41 pm »
I've not fixed one before, but the problem with sealed double pane glass is that they will always eventually fail. They will fail quicker if forced to experience rapid changes in temperature and/or atmospheric pressure. Breather tubes (long capillary tubes designed to allow for pressure changes without allowing moisture change) are often used for transport to high altitude installations, but the tubes need to be crimped on site of installation. Double sealing the outer edge can reduce the tendancy to blow out and break the seal. Traveling over high mountain passes can be enough to make a sealed unit fail. I sold Lindal Cedar Homes in the Colorado mountains for 20 years, we had our share of issues with windows. A five year warranty against seal failure is a good one.

Here's a link to info on how some operations fix fogged windows without disassembly. We have a local company that does this, you may have one also.

https://www.thespruce.com/fogged-windows-repair-options-1822911        reviews on this type of process are mixed.

If you do it yourself,  you know argon is heavier than air. I'd guess I'd clean then reassemble the unit, fill with argon from the bottom with a escape vent hole at the top on a really dry day, seal it quickly and seal it again.

And be sure to exhale when you drive over our mountain passes (and inhale often too.)
« Last Edit: March 16, 2020, 08:18:47 am by 2 Lucky »
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Engineerlt

Re: Fogging Window
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2020, 04:16:04 pm »
Well I finished my window, and it looks good. I used 1/4 X 1/4 inch  double sided foam adhesive  glazing tape V2208-Thermalbond by Norton. Its very similar to what the manufactured used originally in the window.  It separates the 2 pieces of glass. Then I used 3M windshield adhesive to seal the windows together. Let it dry for 24 hours. Then I made 2 holes through the seal to insert small hoses.  I attached one hose to my Argon bottle and the other hose I placed in a candle. The hoses were inserted in opposite ends of the window. I had the window at an angle with the end that I was filling down so all the air would be pushed out of the the opposite end through the other hose. The end that was venting was placed in the candle with a flame. As the Argon filled the window and then started venting out it filled the candle and put out the flame. That way I was sure that the air was out of the window.  I let it vent for a couple more minutes and then removed the fill line/vent line and plugged the holes with the windshield adhesive. i let the windshield glue setup and then installed the window...  The roughest part was getting the window apart and cleaned up. I guess time will be the real indication if it is actually sealed up.  Hopefully no more fog.

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Barry-Sue

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Re: Fogging Window
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2023, 01:43:15 pm »
Lance,

I am looking at repairing one of my foggy windows.  I can't figure out how the top part of the window comes apart.  There is black metal brace/trim/bar that looks to be attached to the glass and frame.  How do you remove the seal on that part of the window.  Maybe it is not even attached to the frame or to the window,  I am just unsure.

Thanks
Barry
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LRUCH

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Re: Fogging Window
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2023, 10:38:44 pm »
I have 3 windows (out of 8 total,,, 13 if you count the slider windows that open as 2) that have fogged.   A few months ago I found a shop in Searcy Arkansas, RV FOG DR, that is known for extracting, disassembling, cleaning, reassembling and reinstalling foggy windows. They get great reviews. https://maps.app.goo.gl/Ya1s5aSTgbCfwK6u5
https://www.rvfogdr.com/



I had taken one of the windows out and tried to figure out how to fix it. It looked too risky and I feared I would shatter it.... I put it back in and gave up.  :beg


I'm headed there next week to have them fix my 3 windows. I'll let you know how it turns out.
Larry
« Last Edit: November 13, 2023, 04:38:22 pm by LRUCH »
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flei

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Re: Fogging Window
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2023, 08:56:55 am »
Interesting discussion. None of our windows are fogged (does our 2007 even have double pane windows on it?), but I'm wondering if it wouldn't just be easier (and maybe even less expensive) to install new windows.  Like something from here: https://www.recpro.com/rv-windows/    Am I missing something about why it's better to have the old windows fixed?   
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Fogging Window
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2023, 10:29:14 am »
Interesting discussion. None of our windows are fogged (does our 2007 even have double pane windows on it?), but I'm wondering if it wouldn't just be easier (and maybe even less expensive) to install new windows.  Like something from here: https://www.recpro.com/rv-windows/    Am I missing something about why it's better to have the old windows fixed?
Like you, we have a 2007 model year.  We have the earlier design sliding thermal pane glass of 2 layers with an air gap in-between them.  They are made by HEHR per the picture.  I have not yet noticed any such fogging.  If we get fogging, my first choice would be to replace them.  If an exact replacement cannot be found, then this discussion is would personally have much greater value.  I might even be tempted to give repairing it a try, just to see if I could succesfully do it.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2023, 10:32:48 am by Ron Dittmer »
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LRUCH

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Re: Fogging Window
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2023, 02:15:51 pm »
2 reasons to fix than replace.


First, I can't find replacements the same size and frame color (mine are white)... And I've heard/read in other forums that the glass tint does not match older windows (mine are 2010, so I call them old).


Second, the fix approach puts less waste in land fills.
Larry

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flei

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Re: Fogging Window
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2023, 03:01:53 pm »
2 reasons to fix than replace.


First, I can't find replacements the same size and frame color (mine are white)... And I've heard/read in other forums that the glass tint does not match older windows (mine are 2010, so I call them old).


Second, the fix approach puts less waste in land fills.

That makes sense.  Please post a follow-up and let us know how it turns out. 
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existence.- A. Einstein

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LRUCH

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Re: Fogging Window
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2023, 01:02:23 am »

I ended up getting five foggy windows repaired and I'm thrilled with the results.

1. Main door
2. Tall window behind 3rd captain chair
3. Rear window
4. Window behind sofa in front slide
5. Window over bed in rear slide (emergency exit window)

I arrived at the RV Fog Dr in Searcy Arkansas around 6:30 p.m. and parked in front of the last bay door. I plugged into the 50 amp electric service and could have attached to the water connection. Every door had a pair of these connections. There was also a sewer dump station at the end of the parking lot if I needed it. They invite you to arrive the night before so that they can start first thing in the morning.

By 8:00 a.m. the next morning I had moved my PC into the bay (and reconnected the electricity to keep my fridge running on electricity) and they were removing the Windows. By 11:45 a.m. they had finished all five windows and had the blinds & valance reinstalled.

I have to point out that they have an awesome facility. The garage is roughly 7 bays. Each one is more than 60 ft long 20 ft wide 20 ft tall. I was in the bay they called the store room. The next one was fully built out as a paint booth and could fit any size diesel pusher! The remainder of the building was one giant room with a small paint booth in the corner, polished concrete floors, finished ceiling, AC & heat, and a customer waiting lounge. It was a very nice building and I definitely have garage envy! It looks like they mostly work on diesel pushers for window replacements and repairs as well as minor or major body work. The day I was there at least 4 big units came and went.

They charge $275 per window to uninstall, disassemble, clean, rebuild and install. This also includes a 2 year warranty. I asked what they would do if they broke a glass pane. They said it rarely happens but they find the right matching glass and cut a pane to replace the broken window for no additional charge. I got a chance to walk through the workshop where they rebuild the windows and one wall was a large assortment of colors and tint densities of glass.

I did tell them that I had stuffed insulation around all the perimeters of my windows, and I had applied clear ceramic tint to my windows. They had no problem with that, as they were able to save all the window tint and they replaced the foam stuffing with a higher quality foam insulation when they reinstalled the windows. They admitted that it made sense to seal the gap and will probably make that standard process in the future.

I'm just thrilled to have clear windows. The main door and rear window were completely covered with fog and the other 3 at least 60% fogged. Now I can see out.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2023, 01:04:58 am by LRUCH »
Larry

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Re: Fogging Window
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2023, 11:00:04 am »
Hi LRUCH,

Thank you for sharing your experience with RV FOG DOCTOR.  I never knew that such a service existed.  I hope never to need it, but it is surely good to know about it.  At $275/window, that is reasonable, especially if your windows are no longer available brand new.  I wonder if there is such a service in my area near Chicago.  Actually, I could use such a service for the 3 original odd shaped windows in the peak of my 35 year old house.  But that is quite a very different project.

The condition of these windows is so much worse today, about 10 years after these pictures were taken.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2023, 11:06:12 am by Ron Dittmer »
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