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2351D bed improvement

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Grandpa17

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  • Model: 2351
  • ModelYear: 2351D 2020
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  • Location: Indiana
2351D bed improvement
« on: December 27, 2019, 09:51:53 am »
Still a big fanboy of PC, however, the bed/mattress design isn’t working for us at all.  We bought the 2351D with the idea it was going to be primarily a point to point vehicle, not planning to spend more than a night or two in it at a time.  However, we are now on a trip where we will be spending about 2 1/2 weeks in it.  After a week we are waking up with very sore backs.  The two main issues are that the stock mattress is way too firm and secondly because of the slide design there is a 4 1/4” step between the top half of the mattress support surface and the bottom half.  The mattress has two sections, one being 5” thick and the other being 8” thick.  That causes the bottom section to be about 1 1/4” lower than the top section, plus the mattress sags in the middle.  Just all the way around, not good.  To make the mattress softer I bought a 2” topper but the problem with that is that it doesn’t stay in place at night.  I’ve included a model to show the issue.

So... I think I have a mod that’s going to make a huge difference.  I don’t have time right now but will follow up with my idea ASAP...
« Last Edit: January 03, 2020, 10:43:39 am by Grandpa17 »
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Ron Dittmer

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  • Location: N/E Illinois
Re: 2351D bed sucks!
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2019, 11:33:24 am »
Quote from: Grandpa17 on December 27, 2019, 09:51:53 am
Still a big fanboy of PC, however, the bed/mattress design isn’t working for us at all.  We bought the 2351D with the idea it was going to be primarily a point to point vehicle, not planning to spend more than a night or two in it at a time.  However, we are now on a trip where we will be spending about 2 1/2 weeks in it.  After a week we are waking up with very sore backs.  The two main issues are that the stock mattress is way too firm and secondly because of the slide design there is a 4 1/4” step between the top half of the mattress and the bottom half.  The mattress has two sections, one being 5” thick and the other being 8” thick.  That causes the bottom section to be about 1 1/4” lower than the top section, plus the mattress sags in the middle.  Just all the way around, not good.  To make the mattress softer I bought a 2” topper but the problem with that is that it doesn’t stay in place at night.  I’ve included a model to show the issue.

So... I think I have a mod that’s going to make a huge difference.  I don’t have time right now but will follow up with my idea ASAP...
Yikes Grandpa17!  The platform for the mattress is not flat when the slide out is open, and so you have different mattress thicknesses to compensate for a 4-1/4" differential?  That does seem ripe for discomfort.

I wonder if you could come up with a nice special-made 4-1/4" fabric-covered light-weight unforgiving Styrofoam-type filler to place in the lower section to level the sleeping surface, then get a normal consistent thickness mattress to sleep on.  But I wouldn't know if that'll work with your particular slide out.  If you have a two piece, two thickness mattress now, you might still need two pieces to close up the slide out.

With your 2351D, do you have to remove 100% of your bedding including your fitted sheet, every time you pull in the slide out?  If so, then I assume standard bedding consisting of fitted and flat sheets don't work for the application and you have resorted to another method for bedding.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2019, 05:51:33 pm by Ron Dittmer »
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garmp

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  • Location: St. Louis, MO
Re: 2351D bed sucks!
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2019, 05:03:09 pm »
I don't know for sure but I might have a partial solution to your problem. I have no thoughts on the mattress being too firm, but on the thickness I do have one. With out seeing the actual construction I will venture my guess. First off the part that slides when in fits over a permanent box containing what I assume is the water tank or such. There has to be some kind of clearance for the device to slide in and out. My guess is that the difference in the mattresses you mentioned is about 1/2 the difference of the two surfaces.
Solution: flip the mattress. Put what is at your head to the foot section, etc. The difference of the mattress thickness should compensate for the difference in surface heights.
Hope this works for you. Especially since we have a 2351D on order and really don't want to start out with a problem.
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Jack is what we call our PC 2351D, and he has taken us from campers to RV'ers and loving it. We're no longer Team Bob. Just Jack the RV!
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Grandpa17

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Re: 2351D bed sucks!
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2019, 06:13:46 pm »
In the first model I’m showing the mattress configuration and the slide in for travel.  In the second model I’m showing it in sleeping configuration. One of the problems is that the height of the slide step is 4 1/4” but the difference in mattress thickness is only 3 inches.  That causes the mattress to sag right at your waist which I think is what is causing our back aches.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2019, 07:52:02 pm by Grandpa17 »
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Grandpa17

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Re: 2351D bed sucks!
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2019, 06:48:22 pm »
Here’s what I’m going to try...  I have ordered a 6” trifold mattress and will make a 4 1/4” thick platform.  That way the mattress will lay perfectly flat and I think it will be simple to store by folding it up.  I’m planning to make the platform as light as possible and hinge it.  (I’ll experiment with the platform before attaching it)

Any thoughts, suggestions?
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Grandpa17

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  • Model: 2351
  • ModelYear: 2351D 2020
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  • Location: Indiana
Re: 2351D bed is a poor design (IMO)
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2019, 08:00:03 pm »
Here are my thoughts on the platform.  Trying to keep it as light as possible.
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: 2351D bed isn’t working out for us.
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2019, 02:17:07 am »
Grandpa17,

In my earlier reply, I was suggesting to make a 4-1/4" "filler" piece made of dense Styrofoam, covered in some kind of upholstery fabric, vinyl, or even interior-matching leather if you want to get real fancy.  The right kind of Styrofoam will not give, crush, or crumble from the weigh of a human.  It would also be extremely light weight.

An alternative to Styrofoam is foundation insulation.  It is sold in 2" thicknesses and in 2x8 and 4x8 sheets.  Some types might crumble a little over time, others surely not at all.  Go to your all your home improvement centers to examine the various material choices.  The material is extremely light weight and also very affordable.  You would have to glue 2 pieces together to get 4", then add 1/4" light weight luan to complete the thickness.  Maybe glue the 1/4" luan in-between the two for a good sandwich.  Cover the sandwich in a zippered fabric or vinyl cover would make it very nice, and being zippered, you can easily replace the core material if needed.  Phoenix may be willing to make a matching interior zippered cover to your specification, especially considering your dissatisfaction with your bed.  You are doing their engineering for them.

Foundation insulation is designed to withstand the weight of earth against concrete basement walls.  If it won't crush under that pressure, I think you won't crush it either.


Handling a fabric-covered light weight block won't be intrusive like a wooden box.  You can toss it round effortlessly and it won't bang up your interior either.

BTW:  Nice Diagrams!
« Last Edit: December 28, 2019, 02:29:13 am by Ron Dittmer »
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garmp

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  • Location: St. Louis, MO
Re: 2351D bed isn’t working out for us.
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2019, 04:52:30 pm »
Prior to ordering our 2351D we went to the plant and took a tour of one. DW even laid on the bed and remarked how much she liked it. The bed is the reason we are upgrading as she has developed back problems. There was no variance in thickness. Guess what I'm suggesting is if there is any way to go back to the plant I'm sure they will rectify the issue. If that's not possible I would definitely call them and state the issue.
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Jack is what we call our PC 2351D, and he has taken us from campers to RV'ers and loving it. We're no longer Team Bob. Just Jack the RV!
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Grandpa17

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Re: 2351D bed isn’t working out for us.
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2019, 02:29:56 pm »
Ron,

Great suggestions.  I have actually considered styrofoam but wasn’t convinced I could cover it to look nice enough.  Gluing luan to both sides is a good idea.  Plus I want cover the top side with carpet to match the slide floor.  Since it probably won’t be too costly I might give it a try.  If nothing else it will help with proof of concept.

I’m planning to attach whatever platform I come up with to the slide with a scissor hinge and swing it up when not needed.
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Grandpa17

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Re: 2351D bed isn’t working out for us.
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2019, 02:40:17 pm »
Quote from: garmp on December 28, 2019, 04:52:30 pm
Prior to ordering our 2351D we went to the plant and took a tour of one. DW even laid on the bed and remarked how much she liked it. The bed is the reason we are upgrading as she has developed back problems. There was no variance in thickness. Guess what I'm suggesting is if there is any way to go back to the plant I'm sure they will rectify the issue. If that's not possible I would definitely call them and state the issue.

Garmp,

We spent some time at the factory too.  In our case the bed design was probably my biggest concern about the unit.  In just the few minutes of laying on it I didn’t notice the difference in height issue, and even in a couple of overnighters we didn’t notice it.  Now, though, after spending a week on it we’re both miserable!   Not only is there a deference in height issue, but the center section of the mattress is sinking in.  We wake up with our backs so sore that my wife has taken to sleeping on the recliners. 

Hopefully you will have a much better experience than we have, but both my wife and are desperate to get a flat, comfortable bed.  Unless they have changed something before you get yours I’m guessing you’ll have the same experience.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 07:08:07 pm by Grandpa17 »
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Ron Dittmer

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    • My 2007 2350 Phoenix Cruiser
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  • Location: N/E Illinois
Re: 2351D bed isn’t working out for us.
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2019, 07:02:32 pm »
Quote from: Grandpa17 on December 29, 2019, 02:29:56 pm
I’m planning to attach whatever platform I come up with to the slide with a scissor hinge and swing it up when not needed.
Ah!  A scissor hinge or piano hinge would assure your home made platform does not bounce around doing damage to itself or the world around it.  I better understand now, your desire to use wood products.  You have a great plan there.

Regarding your current two depth mattress.  Based on our experience with foam seat filler, I surely understand why it would feel good during a test and a few nights thereafter, but getting worse over time.  One example at home, my lawn tractor seat had 4 mounting bolt-ends sticking up very little into the foam.  It was fine for a year, but bothered me later.  I had to take the seat apart and grind the 4 stems flat to the seat pan.  I have similar stories with our kitchen counter stools and office chairs.

Adding to your current troubles with your current Phoenix design, there is NO foam at the edge of the platform step because that is where the two piece mattress folds.  It's a flawed design for sure.

Get your bed platform flat (minus the minor bump if using a thin piano hinge) and having a consistent-thickness tri-fold foam mattress as you have planned, and I think you will have solved your bed troubles.  The two seams of a tri-fold mattress just might be located where you'll never notice them.  The few times I slept on our level dinette conversion with 3 cushion seams, I never felt them.  You did mention that a firm mattress does not suit you, but I think a firm mattress would mask the seams better.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 07:24:41 pm by Ron Dittmer »
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Grandpa17

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  • PurchDate: September 2020
  • Model: 2351
  • ModelYear: 2351D 2020
  • Slide: Yes
  • Location: Indiana
Re: 2351D bed isn’t working out for us.
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2019, 07:21:27 pm »
Quote from: Ron Dittmer on December 29, 2019, 07:02:32 pm
Quote from: Grandpa17 on December 29, 2019, 02:29:56 pm
I’m planning to attach whatever platform I come up with to the slide with a scissor hinge and swing it up when not needed.
Ah!  A scissor hinge or piano hinge would assure your home made platform does not bounce around doing damage to itself or the world around it.

Ron,

Yea, meant to say piano hinge.  I’ll need to understand how the floor of the slide is made to make sure I can screw into something solid.  I’m planning to make the platform tomorrow.
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Ron Dittmer

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  • 5647
  • Ron and Irene
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    • My 2007 2350 Phoenix Cruiser
  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: New
  • PurchDate: June 2007
  • Model: 2350 Ford
  • ModelYear: 2007
  • Slide: No
  • IntColor: Cherry Green&Gray
  • ExtColor: Full Body Gray
  • Location: N/E Illinois
Re: 2351D bed isn’t working out for us.
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2019, 07:29:42 pm »
Quote from: Grandpa17 on December 29, 2019, 07:21:27 pm
Quote from: Ron Dittmer on December 29, 2019, 07:02:32 pm
Quote from: Grandpa17 on December 29, 2019, 02:29:56 pm
I’m planning to attach whatever platform I come up with to the slide with a scissor hinge and swing it up when not needed.
Ah!  A scissor hinge or piano hinge would assure your home made platform does not bounce around doing damage to itself or the world around it.
Ron, Yea, meant to say piano hinge.  I’ll need to understand how the floor of the slide is made to make sure I can screw into something solid.  I’m planning to make the platform tomorrow.
2o2
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Grandpa17

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  • Location: Indiana
Re: 2351D bed isn’t working out for us.
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2019, 07:41:32 pm »
Quote from: garmp on December 28, 2019, 04:52:30 pm
Prior to ordering our 2351D we went to the plant and took a tour of one. DW even laid on the bed and remarked how much she liked it. The bed is the reason we are upgrading as she has developed back problems. There was no variance in thickness. Guess what I'm suggesting is if there is any way to go back to the plant I'm sure they will rectify the issue. If that's not possible I would definitely call them and state the issue.

Garmp,

Everything is fabricated just right, the issue is the mattress. The floor of the slide is 4 1/4” above the stationary platform, but there is only about 3” of difference (or step) between the two mattress thicknesses causing the bottom section to be lower by that amount.  I suppose 1“ of foam could be added to the bottom section, but the mattress is too firm for us and I just don’t care for the design.  See the attached photos.  The second photo is in travel mode.
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dogyard

Re: 2351D bed isn’t working out for us.
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2019, 03:42:57 pm »
Hi Grandpa17, just a thought - my wife and I had some SERIOUS discomfort with the factory mattress and after researching various improvements we turned to
https://lovemymattress.com/
for a custom mattress.  At their advice we had them make a coil-spring mattress rather than foam and it is remarkable,  better than our very expensive home mattress. Since they manufacture in-house they said they can custom cut/design almost any shape, size, etc including hinged mattresses. They may be able to build you a custom mattress that eliminates the disparity in elevation AND give you the comfort level that fits your requirements.
Good luck, bad sleep makes everything worse.......
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