Fresh water drain.

jim.godfrey

293
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: New
PurchDate: October 2019
Model: 2552
ModelYear: 2020
Slide: Yes
IntColor: Desert Sand
ExtColor: Nightscape w/ Burgundy
Location: South of Boston MA

Fresh water drain.

« on: November 03, 2019, 05:47:18 pm »

Just winterized my 2552. (for now)
While I had no problem finding and operating the fresh water tank drain under the PS bed, I am amazed at how slowly it drained.
I'm talking 3 hours later and still not done. Was only half full. Just a little more than a trickle.
Even used a low pressure air nozzle to blow back into the tank thinking there is some debris blocking the outlet. No change.

Wondering if others have experienced similar slow drain. Seems like something is amiss to me.

Regards, Jim G.

Logged

mikeh

437
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: New
PurchDate: 02/2019
Model: 2552
ModelYear: 2019
Slide: Yes
IntColor: Toast
ExtColor: Toast
Location: Oklahoma

Re: Fresh water drain.

« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2019, 06:12:57 pm »

Jim----

Interested in responses. Mine drains slowly. Learned that while trying to "watch it drain" during my first winterizing experience back in February after I got home from delivery. This time I just opened it in the morning and forgot about it for a couple hours. When I was sure it was through I went back out--still trickling. It does finally quit though, and does drain completely. I think it's just the "nature of the beast", but I'll be interested in other's experience.

Mike

Logged

donc13

1358
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: New
PurchDate: 03/2015
Model: 2551
ModelYear: 2015
Slide: Yes
IntColor: Nightscape/Hickory
ExtColor: White/Nightscape
Location: Colorado

Re: Fresh water drain.

« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2019, 08:02:44 pm »

My 2551 drains just fine, gravity flow but only about 5 minutes to drain.

On mine, the drain line is about 1/2" PVC from the tank, to the 1/4 turn valve to a 90 degree elbow to under the RV with about a 6 or 8 inch piece totally open on the end.

Logged

---
Don and Patti

2 Frazzled

1434
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: New
PurchDate: May 2013
Model: 2552
ModelYear: 2013
Slide: Yes
IntColor: Sunlit & Cherry
ExtColor: Sunlit
Location: On the road full time (prev. Maryland)

Re: Fresh water drain.

« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2019, 05:04:29 am »

John handles the tank draining so I don't have specific numbers but it's pretty quick with a noticeable flow. We have a 2013 so maybe they changed something. Check how much air is getting in to replace water out. I don't think our water inlet on the passenger side is air tight so replacement air flows right in. We do not have the spiffy valve on the driver's side to fill our tank so that might have to do with the difference. If you have the same outlet, it has to be air inflow.

Logged

John, Holly, and sometimes Chloe.
Travel Blog: Spiritofthewoods.net

Ron Dittmer

5647
Ron and Irene
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: New
PurchDate: June 2007
Model: 2350 Ford
ModelYear: 2007
Slide: No
IntColor: Cherry Green&Gray
ExtColor: Full Body Gray
Location: N/E Illinois

Re: Fresh water drain.

« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2019, 07:20:25 am »

Quote from: mikeh on November 03, 2019, 06:12:57 pm

Interested in responses. Mine drains slowly. Learned that while trying to "watch it drain" during my first winterizing experience back in February after I got home from delivery. This time I just opened it in the morning and forgot about it for a couple hours. When I was sure it was through I went back out--still trickling. It does finally quit though, and does drain completely. I think it's just the "nature of the beast", but I'll be interested in other's experience.

Mike

Hi Mike,

Your "slow drain" situation sounds like there is tank-plastic debris that has accumulated at the drain and is restricting the flow of water. The debris is introduced when Phoenix drills holes into the new tank for the water fill, the vent, the water pump, and the gravity drain. From what I gather, RV manufactures in-general leave the tank plastic debris inside. I think Phoenix makes an effort to remove the debris, but is not anal in removing every little remnant. That debris finds it's way to where water exits and limits the flow of water.

How to remove the debris is another story. I never had to so I have no personal experience doing so. I assume the worst case scenario is to remove the fresh water tank, then shack the debris to the biggest opening. But pending the access to your drain, just maybe you could remove part of the drain valve, get a finger or instrument in there, and remove the blockage.

« Last Edit: November 04, 2019, 07:25:18 am by Ron Dittmer »

Logged

Ron (& Irene) Dittmer

Tarnold

247
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: Used
PurchDate: Dec 2019
Model: 2552
ModelYear: 2014
Slide: Yes
Location: N ga

Re: Fresh water drain.

« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2019, 07:44:50 am »

Do you have a few faucets valves open to vent the tank while draining?

Logged

mikeh

437
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: New
PurchDate: 02/2019
Model: 2552
ModelYear: 2019
Slide: Yes
IntColor: Toast
ExtColor: Toast
Location: Oklahoma

Re: Fresh water drain.

« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2019, 08:26:03 am »

Quote from: Ron Dittmer on November 04, 2019, 07:20:25 am

Your "slow drain" situation sounds like there is tank-plastic debris that has accumulated at the drain and is restricting the flow of water. The debris is introduced when Phoenix drills holes into the new tank for the water fill, the vent, the water pump, and the gravity drain. From what I gather, RV manufactures in-general leave the tank plastic debris inside. I think Phoenix makes an effort to remove the debris, but is not anal in removing every little remnant. That debris finds it's way to where water exits and limits the flow of water.

How to remove the debris is another story. I never had to so I have no personal experience doing so. I assume the worst case scenario is to remove the fresh water tank, then shack the debris to the biggest opening. But pending the access to your drain, just maybe you could remove part of the drain valve, get a finger or instrument in there, and remove the blockage.

Thanks Ron. I considered that, since I've seen the references to "tank debris" in previous forum posts. I note that, in his initial post, Jim Godfrey employed low-pressure air back up through the tank drain to try to deal with that possibility--to no avail. Of course, the type of debris you reference could easily enter and then lodge in the drain outlet, and it would probably take a pretty good blast of air to move it. The drain piping is ample size to support a healthy flow, so the most likely causes of low flow are either a restriction or venting issue. I didn't examine things to determine how the tank is vented, but the system works great for even long-term water flows in actual usage--so all evidence is that the tank venting is fine. Tarnold, I did have some faucets open to see if that affected things, but with the pump in line and water still in that portion of the system wouldn't expect to get much venting through that source. Next time I have water in the tank, I will open the direct-fill connection with drain going to allow air directly to the tank to double-check venting issues--but I don't think venting is the issue. I suspect Ron is correct about a restriction in the drain. Fortunately, this isn't any type of show-stopper, and only surfaces on the infrequent occasion when you want to drain the tank. As Jim noted in his initial post, it probably falls more into the category of an irritation rather than a significant problem.

Thanks, Mike

Logged

fandj

345
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: New
Model: 2552
ModelYear: 2016
Slide: Yes
IntColor: Graystone
ExtColor: Nightscape - full body
Location: Virginia

Re: Fresh water drain.

« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2019, 09:04:36 am »

Don’t know if you want to go to something like the deck plate shown in the Amazon link below but I installed and used it on a previous camper fresh water tank. I found it very useful in providing access for cleaning and disinfecting the FW tank. At least once a year when draining for winterizing it allowed for completely cleaning and drying the tank. It also allowed wiping the interior with a bleach solution prior to closing it back up for winter. On the previous camper the plate when screwed back in was water tight with no leak issues.

I have not done this deck plate installation yet on our PC but see no real difference in the camping trailer vs. the PC other than the PC tank is somewhat larger and provides for easier access. Both tanks were similarly constructed from white PE plastic.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000AZ577/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Logged

dogyard

Re: Fresh water drain.

« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2019, 12:14:14 pm »

Hi Jim, I had a thread a while back about the difficulty I have with draining my 2014, 2350. I don't have the 1/4 turn valve others have, simply 3 low point drains next to each other in storage with one of them directly connected to outlet at bottom of tank so this must be their idea of a drain. Water would only trickle out and I couldn't drain the tank even when left open and all faucets, etc left open overnight. Different animal but perhaps you'll benefit from my discovery that if I turn the pump on with drain open I can empty the tank in less than 15 minutes.

Logged

Ron Dittmer

5647
Ron and Irene
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: New
PurchDate: June 2007
Model: 2350 Ford
ModelYear: 2007
Slide: No
IntColor: Cherry Green&Gray
ExtColor: Full Body Gray
Location: N/E Illinois

Re: Fresh water drain.

« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2019, 04:57:28 pm »

Quote from: mikeh on November 04, 2019, 08:26:03 am

.....I didn't examine things to determine how the tank is vented.....

I don't know if Phoenix uses the same ventilation method as back in 2007, but our tank vent is maybe 1/2" round and screen-covered, located behind the locked door with the filler pipe. Water initially ejects from it when filling up our tank to over-flowing. If you have that screen but suspect it is not venting, check the vent tube for a kink.

« Last Edit: November 04, 2019, 05:00:53 pm by Ron Dittmer »

Logged

Ron (& Irene) Dittmer

jim.godfrey

293
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: New
PurchDate: October 2019
Model: 2552
ModelYear: 2020
Slide: Yes
IntColor: Desert Sand
ExtColor: Nightscape w/ Burgundy
Location: South of Boston MA

Re: Fresh water drain.

« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2019, 07:18:04 pm »

Appreciate the replies on this issue.
It is pretty much just a minor annoyance and curiosity for me as I usually only drain the tank once a year.
It does seem there is some debris in there as the piping is certainly sized to empty more quickly.
I'll try blowing it out again with more pressure next time it gets filled.
Pretty sure the vent is working because even with a little over half a tank I still get splashes of water coming out the vent all over the side of my rig.

Also the slow drain was from the start so no chance to build vacuum.

Hmmm, wonder if the fact that water comes out the vent even with only a 1/2 tank indicates that the pickup tube for the vent in the tank is below the water line.
And if so would that make it a less efficient vent? Maybe next time there is water in the tank I'll try blowing air into the vent to see if I hear bubbles.
If this is the case maybe the tank was in a slight negative pressure before I started.

Probably not the cause of the slow drain because it was a very consistent slow drain and when I blew air up into the tank it should have relieved at least some of the vacuum.

Oh well fun to think about.

Logged

Ron Dittmer

5647
Ron and Irene
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: New
PurchDate: June 2007
Model: 2350 Ford
ModelYear: 2007
Slide: No
IntColor: Cherry Green&Gray
ExtColor: Full Body Gray
Location: N/E Illinois

Re: Fresh water drain.

« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2019, 11:06:04 pm »

Jim,

Are you able to lift up the bed platform and examine the tank? I wonder if many of your questions would be answered through an inspection.

BTW: I like fandj's idea of having a well-sealed removal top cap to get inside the fresh water tank. If we had trouble with debris or other contamination, I would consider installing one.

Logged

Ron (& Irene) Dittmer

Volkemon

1061
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: Used
PurchDate: October 31, 2017
Model: 2350 Ford
ModelYear: 2006
Slide: Yes
IntColor: Light Maple
ExtColor: White
Location: Space Coast Florida

Re: Fresh water drain.

« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2019, 04:36:09 am »

Quote from: jim.godfrey on November 04, 2019, 07:18:04 pm

Pretty sure the vent is working because even with a little over half a tank I still get splashes of water coming out the vent all over the side of my rig.
Also the slow drain was from the start so no chance to build vacuum.

Hmmm, wonder if the fact that water comes out the vent even with only a 1/2 tank indicates that the pickup tube for the vent in the tank is below the water line.

If the vent is below the waterline, it should be venting water when filling above that point. So if it vents air until the tank is full, thats not the issue.

FWIW... I worked on a pest control rig that had a 500 gallon tank with a vent on the top right. Full or empty, you would get a bit of water puffing out around turns. But WOW... 1/2 full, that thing would spurt water like a whale in heat.

Got called in by other motorists. We ended up putting an 'L' inside to stop the ram effect.

Logged

""You want to save money on travel, drive a Prius and stay at motel 6"" Forum Member Joseph

WORD.

Free2RV

223
Gary and Susie
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: New
PurchDate: P.U. 6/11/18
Model: 3100
ModelYear: 2018
Slide: Yes
IntColor: Nightscape (Cherry)
ExtColor: Graystone (FBP)
Location: Northern Michigan

Re: Fresh water drain.

« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2019, 06:24:54 am »

Our 2018 also drains slowly, but based on the size of the line, it is draining as fast as it can. A way to drain the tank quicker is to open the two low point drains and turn on the water pump. When the pump starts sucking air, then let the tank drain do the rest.
Gary

Logged

Engineerlt

Re: Fresh water drain.

« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2019, 10:38:23 am »

Hello It is slow for me as well, but I know on my 2552 if I open the low point drains on the freshwater system below the drawers in the galley and turn the water pump on I can have the tank pumped down in about 5 minutes. I then turn off the pump and open the tank drain valve and allow what water is left to run out. I have however had to replace the low water drain valves as they leaked. I tried changing out the o-rings but no joy, so I just went to HomeDepot and bought some shakbite 1/2 brass ball valves, then made up two rigid copper 90 degree elbows to run through the floor for the drain. I have always had good luck with the sharkbite valves and they are so easy to install. Just cut the pex pipe and slide on the new valves. Works better than new, and makes the process quick, so I flush my freshwater tank on a regular interval.

Logged