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Leveling Jacks & Aluminum Wheels

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garmp

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Leveling Jacks & Aluminum Wheels
« on: July 22, 2019, 04:56:17 pm »
What's the popular opinion on leveling jacks, specifically for a 2351D? We're thinking of upgrading to a 2351D and trying to figure out if jacks are worth the price in dollars and/or in weight.
Rarely, knock wood, have we had leveling issues, but once we do this we aren't going to do it again. At least so I said before.
And possible other than cosmetic, is there any real advantage/disadvantage to the optional aluminum wheels?
Thanks
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BlueBlaze

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Re: Leveling Jacks & Aluminum Wheels
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2019, 06:27:48 pm »
My 2350 came with factory automatic levelers, and I'd give them to you if I could.  I think I've actually used them once since we owned the vehicle (in Yellowstone), and even then it wasn't really necessary.  I guess they'd be helpful when changing a tire, but even then I wouldn't bother.  I'd just call AAA.  The only time you really need them is for back country camping, but then I think you'd want the ground clearance you lose more. I wish for that 4" every time I pull into a gas station.

But there is one situation I can think of where they're helpful -- they keep "the truck from a-rockin'", if you know what I mean. So I guess the answer to your question kind of depends on your love life! <grin>
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dogyard

Re: Leveling Jacks & Aluminum Wheels
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2019, 10:53:26 pm »
Can't comment on levelers but I will give a HUGE recommendation for the Alcoa wheels. I have a 2014 2350 on E450 and on our 2 week maiden voyage we were flagged down by a driver who stopped us to let us know one of the  "wheel simulators" (hub caps) was wobbling madly, who knows for how long?. We found that it had badly damaged the valve-stem extenders resulting in a (thankfully) slow leak to inner dual tire AND caused a soft spot on the sidewall from rubbing against the hub cap - had to be replaced with  less than 2500 miles on it.  The truck tire dealer we found told us he refused to sell the simulator/covers due to previous catastrophic events like ours, some resulting in instant deflation and significant damage.   When we got home I ordered up the Alcoa's and have been pleased not only with their appearance but also the improved ride they provide.  I was able to get 4 wheels (inner duallies are still stock steel) with caps, nuts, etc installed for under  $1,500 - very cheap peace of mind.
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Leveling Jacks & Aluminum Wheels
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2019, 12:54:54 am »
Quote from: BlueBlaze on July 22, 2019, 06:27:48 pm
But there is one situation I can think of where they're helpful -- they keep "the truck from a-rockin'", if you know what I mean. So I guess the answer to your question kind of depends on your love life! <grin>
If you need levelers for that reason, you'd be better off investing less money in heavy duty front and rear stabilizer bars and shocks.  They offer stability while driving, stability when parked walking around inside, and stability during.......well......you know.  ;)

BTW:  I understand you cannot or should not use the class C levelers to raise a tire off the ground.  Others with them should be able to provide specifics.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 12:57:33 am by Ron Dittmer »
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Leveling Jacks & Aluminum Wheels
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2019, 01:02:14 am »
Quote from: dogyard on July 22, 2019, 10:53:26 pm
Can't comment on levelers but I will give a HUGE recommendation for the Alcoa wheels. I have a 2014 2350 on E450 and on our 2 week maiden voyage we were flagged down by a driver who stopped us to let us know one of the  "wheel simulators" (hub caps) was wobbling madly, who knows for how long?. We found that it had badly damaged the valve-stem extenders resulting in a (thankfully) slow leak to inner dual tire AND caused a soft spot on the sidewall from rubbing against the hub cap - had to be replaced with  less than 2500 miles on it.  The truck tire dealer we found told us he refused to sell the simulator/covers due to previous catastrophic events like ours, some resulting in instant deflation and significant damage.   When we got home I ordered up the Alcoa's and have been pleased not only with their appearance but also the improved ride they provide.  I was able to get 4 wheels (inner duallies are still stock steel) with caps, nuts, etc installed for under  $1,500 - very cheap peace of mind.
Though we have not had issues with valve stems or simulators, I do plan on getting Alcoa wheels when replacing our tires.  It makes sense they should offer some benefit in the quality of the ride and handling, as well as general appearance.  All our other vehicles have alloy wheels.  Why not our most expensive one that would benefit most from them?

I plan to recover some money through resale-ing the take-offs on Craigslist.

What does Phoenix charge for Alcoa wheels?  Do they include quality one-piece extended valves, or those cheap add-on extenders that I hear are problematic?
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 01:14:32 am by Ron Dittmer »
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donc13

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Re: Leveling Jacks & Aluminum Wheels
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2019, 09:28:26 am »
I can certainly understand how aluminum wheels will spiff up the appearance.   But I don't understand how they can benefit the "ride" comfort.  They aren't so much lighter that they'd lower the unsprung weight enough to matter are they?

How much lighter are they per wheel?
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dogyard

Re: Leveling Jacks & Aluminum Wheels
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2019, 02:48:57 pm »
The shop that moved my tires from steel wheels to Alcoa's weighed them and the aluminum were (average) 5# lighter per wheel - not much but that is unsprung weight. They recommended the metal valve stems without any extensions. They also sold me the (real German made) flow-through caps that make pressure checks and inflation a breeze.
It's probably subjective about ride quality but was noticed by my wife as well without any prodding - seems like they just ride more stable and true, feels like I put on new tires even though they were the same ones.
BTW - they sold me the more expensive "coated" Alcoa's and I wasn't sure about the value but after seeing someone in a campground scrubbing their "uncoated" Alcoa's I think it was money well spent.....
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RheaNL

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Re: Leveling Jacks & Aluminum Wheels
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2019, 07:08:36 pm »
There are a couple other threads about leveling jacks you might look up.  We have them on our 2100 and do use them a lot. As to leveling, Ron is right, you cannot lift the tires off the pavement--so not even helpful when changing a tire. They only tweak the level of the PC. We mostly like and use them for stability.  Because of the wheel base on the 2100 it is more susceptible to movement from wind--and there is lots of wind in the Rockies, and even stepping on the rear entrance step causes motion.
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jim.godfrey

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Re: Leveling Jacks & Aluminum Wheels
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2019, 09:15:56 pm »
When I was placing my order at PC recently, I asked Barry how much the Alcoas were.
He said about $3K.
I passed as I knew I could get them later for a lot less if I missed them.
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Joseph

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Re: Leveling Jacks & Aluminum Wheels
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2019, 10:13:04 pm »
Not so sure you’re supposed to but my levelers will lift the front wheels off the ground. 


I have trouble keeping the wheel covers on as well. Zip ties help but mostly just for the front.

The Alcoa wheels sound nice but I think I might try painting one of my wheels first to see how that comes out. Maybe add some chrome outer rings that would not cost much.  I’d rather buy gas, just me.
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BlueBlaze

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Re: Leveling Jacks & Aluminum Wheels
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2019, 08:00:07 am »
Quote from: RheaNL on July 23, 2019, 07:08:36 pm
There are a couple other threads about leveling jacks you might look up.  We have them on our 2100 and do use them a lot. As to leveling, Ron is right, you cannot lift the tires off the pavement--so not even helpful when changing a tire. They only tweak the level of the PC. We mostly like and use them for stability.  Because of the wheel base on the 2100 it is more susceptible to movement from wind--and there is lots of wind in the Rockies, and even stepping on the rear entrance step causes motion.

It might not be safe to change a tire with the levelers, but mine are certainly capable of raising a tire completely off the ground.  In fact, I used them to put my rear end on jack stands when I installed my Firestone air bags.  I didn't realize they all weren't capable of lifting a tire off the ground, since this is the only rig I've ever owned.  Maybe that's why mine hang down so far.  So I guess my comments should be disregarded.  If they didn't reduce my ground clearance, I wouldn't mind having them.
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Leveling Jacks & Aluminum Wheels
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2019, 09:11:41 am »
Quote from: jim.godfrey on July 23, 2019, 09:15:56 pm
When I was placing my order at PC recently, I asked Barry how much the Alcoas were.
He said about $3K.
I passed as I knew I could get them later for a lot less if I missed them.
I am not surprised of the mark-up.

The best deal I found to-date for the Alcoa "Dura-Bright" wheel package not including those special valve stems is HERE for $1,399.  If anyone has found them cheaper, please let me know.  The non-Dura-Bright wheel package is $100 less but I want the Dura-Bright finish.

If your PC currently has steel wheels with wheel covers and you want to upgrade to the Alcoa wheels, the right time for the change is when buying new tires.  Do it all at once for a lower installation price.  Buy the wheels on-line, have them shipped to your house, place them on the floor in your PC, and then go to the tire store of your choice.  Be sure to include those special valve stems, also available on the internet.  I found these HERE but not yet certain they are the best available.  When making the change, "Be Sure" to specify stick-on wheel weights for both inside and outside positions.  The clip-on weights tire shops hammer-on will damage the finish on the wheels.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2019, 09:24:26 am by Ron Dittmer »
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dogyard

Re: Leveling Jacks & Aluminum Wheels
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2019, 03:54:31 pm »
Ron, that's the exact source/lowest price I found for the Alcoa Durabrights and I was very pleasantly surprised when I showed it to my local (Minneapolis) dealer and they price matched with in stock wheels. Turned out that buying local helped as I had to exchange lug nut covers twice to get the correct ones. My truck service station dismounted from old wheels, mounted on new ones with new metal stems, flow-through caps and balance tape for only $100 since I've become a steady customer with upgrades to my PC.
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RheaNL

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Re: Leveling Jacks & Aluminum Wheels
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2019, 06:28:10 pm »
I miss stated when I said in my previous post, "... you cannot lift the tires off the pavement"  The levelers certainly will lift either end or both at the same time off the pavement. We have done so--only once-- which is how we learned it is not a safe thing to do...even just one end or the other, let alone all four tires. The wheels will not have chocks to stabilize the coach. Think of the manual jacks you see people with travel trailers using.  They are shaped like a teepee or traffic cone...multiple points of contact with the pavement so the trailer cannot roll off.  The HWH levelers have just one point of contact so any movement of the coach (people inside, heavy wind, etc.), will make the coach roll off the levelers. With no chocks, the results are dangerous and can be disastrous. We still continue to occasionally lifted the coach tires off the ground because in some situations (like not a lot of room to back up/pull forward)  it facilitates putting leveling pads under the tires.
Some type A coaches have different type levelers (come straight down and have big round pads on the bottom) and those can lift the coach off the ground.
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biglegmax

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Re: Leveling Jacks & Aluminum Wheels
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2019, 08:27:14 pm »
I hate the way the jacks hang down, but if you do a lot of camping away from level sites like we do they are worth the money. I always hated pulling into a rough site after dark and start  digging holes or leveling with boards, so I would say evaluate where you camp most of the time.

As far as the wheels, I think the factory caps are junk and create problems, we pulled ours immediately and painted the steel wheels and haven't looked back. Thats a ton of gas or scotch money...

Doug
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