LED lights (factory installed)

The LED lights in our 2017 2552, the ones mounted along the hallway, have a design weakness in that they have LED pucks that mount into sockets. These pucks come loose with all of the bouncing from travel. Some I have just reset and they work for a while, one has remained an ongoing problem (even after trying to tape it into the socket). Because of the design, I believe these to be a poor choice for use in RVs.

Questions:

Has anyone found a solution to keeping these pucks in place?

Has the factory since switch to a different light fixture? If so, is the mfr and P/N known?

Has anyone replaced these with another fixture? (There a plenty of choices where the LED board is wired in which would eliminate this as an issue)

Thanks!

Hi Mike,
Do you mean the centerline lights in the ceiling?  The ones with the sliding cover?  No problem with mine except they still seem to fill up with styrofoam pieces.  We should have the same fixtures I would think. 

I suspect that the preference for replaceable bulbs is just a hold over from the old days.  These days one piece fixtures are the new norm.  When it dies toss the whole fixture and replace.  I am working on light fixtures for my new house and specifying fixtures with replaceable bulbs just makes no sense.  Top quality 6" round LED fixtures that are sealed and rated for wet locations as less than $35 each.  With a rated life of 50,000 hours.  So almost 6 years continous on time.

I do have one of the capacitive touch fixtures over the bed in the 2552 that has gone dark.  No amount of tinkering has revived it so far.

Yes, those are the ones I mean. I have two that have had one side fall out (one of which prefers to stay out) and one unit that is completely dark and is probably a wiring issue, not a loose puck issue (haven't checked it as yet).

The capacitive touch fixtures are still all working so far.

I thought I would just check the collective wisdom on these before I start replacing the fixtures, which I am inclined to do.

If mine were falling out I think I would be tempted to epoxy the pucks back into the socket.  If they ever fail I would just swap out the whole fixture.  I believe when PC started using those they were "cutting edge" but there are dozens perhaps hundreds of LED fixtures on the market these days.  No reason to suffer with something that isn't working when there are so many other choices.

Ever since LED's came out, I've wondered why new houses don't have a separate 12v circuit for real LED fixtures.  Instead, even if the bulb isn't replaceable, we still get a transformer in every fixture that barely lasts as long as an incandescent bulb.  The second time I had to replace the LED fixture in my bathroom, I switched to a standard fixture, just because a bulb is easier and cheaper to replace than a fixture.

Man, what a dumb situation!  If there was just one transformer in the home, it could be high enough quality to last a lifetime, and we'd probably double the efficiency of the LED fixtures themselves.  And we'd get the bonus of reducing the voltage and associated fire risk in half the circuits in our homes!

At least we don't have that problem with our RV's.  LED fixtures in an RV have real 12v circuits feeding them.  No reason for bulbs.

  LED fixtures in an RV have real 12v circuits feeding them.  No reason for bulbs.

Well... the drop down resistors inside the LED bulbs that drop it from 12V to  ~3V for the LED's are the 'Achilles heel' of the 12v automotive crowd. I would suspect that the fixtures also use a resistor, as a transformer would be MUCH mo money and space. You can see them (resistors) failing in many larger (school bus, truck, etc) on the road. Many elements in the taillight will be unlit.
 
I have a few of the LED traffic light inserts that were replaced, and the burned out LED's turned out to ALL have bad resistors. Probe them directly with voltage and they light right up. There were no transformers, just a diode bridge and resistors. (down here they are replaced when 30% or more of the elements in the unit fail ti light up.)

The LED replacement bayonet-base bulbs that replace the 'common' incandescent have the same issue. A '12V' vehicle can often go from 12-15V during operation, and the resistors burn out. I have dissected a few to find this.  The tech has gotten WAY better in the aftermarket replacement world, but still...cheaper generally is worse.

So, 12V nominal is not the 'natural' environment for LED either. 

12V nominal is not the 'natural' environment for LED either.

So True!
Like you say, the operating voltage of LEDs is real low, roughly 1V-4V pending the one selected.  And like you say, resistors are added to step down from 12V to the required operating voltage.

So LED lighting circuits could operate using a 1V-4V transformer for example, as long as the fixtures have zero ohm jumpers in-place of resistors.  What a power savings that would be.

One example of a true LED circuit are those real cheap $2.00 solar LED light fixtures that you stick in the ground to light up your sidewalk.  There is no resistor in them.  They operate directly off a 1.5V rechargable battery.

Quote from: BlueBlaze on July 18, 2019, 01:41:00 pm

  LED fixtures in an RV have real 12v circuits feeding them.  No reason for bulbs.

Well... the drop down resistors inside the LED bulbs that drop it from 12V to  ~3V for the LED's are the 'Achilles heel' of the 12v automotive crowd. I would suspect that the fixtures also use a resistor, as a transformer would be MUCH mo money and space. You can see them (resistors) failing in many larger (school bus, truck, etc) on the road. Many elements in the taillight will be unlit.
 
I have a few of the LED traffic light inserts that were replaced, and the burned out LED's turned out to ALL have bad resistors. Probe them directly with voltage and they light right up. There were no transformers, just a diode bridge and resistors. (down here they are replaced when 30% or more of the elements in the unit fail ti light up.)

The LED replacement bayonet-base bulbs that replace the 'common' incandescent have the same issue. A '12V' vehicle can often go from 12-15V during operation, and the resistors burn out. I have dissected a few to find this.  The tech has gotten WAY better in the aftermarket replacement world, but still...cheaper generally is worse.

So, 12V nominal is not the 'natural' environment for LED either.

OK, 3 volts, then.

But in either case, dropping from 120 to 12 with a transformer is a ridiculous thing to do at every single fixture, and much more prone to failure than dropping from 12 to 3 with a resistor.  A resistor that can handle 12v can easily handle 15.  It's not the voltage that wears on a circuit, its the amperage.  I made my living as a computer and avionics tech for about ten years and in all that time, I can't think of a single time I actually saw a resistor fail unless there was a short circuit elsewhere. They're simply so huge compared to the the circuit amperage that they rarely fail.

Transformers only work on AC voltage.  Automotive lights are DC.   

SIMPLE Example... The inverter to power the AC circuits for the TVs and so forth.     They take 12v DC, convert it to AC via a switching circuit run it into a 12v to 120v transformer and into the AC lines.

You do the reverse to lower voltage for Led lights.  Run 120v AC thru a transformer to get 3v AC out, run that thru a diode bridge to get DC.

So.. To convert 12v DC to 3v DC would go like this,

12v DC in thru switching circuit to 12v AC to transformer 12v AC in and 3v AC out to bridge to convert back to DC.

A lot of parts and inefficient.

Whereas a resistor to lower 12v DC to 3V DC is much easier.    There are other parts such as voltage regulators but you'd need them in either case to do the job correctly.

I made my living as a computer and avionics tech for about ten years and in all that time, I can't think of a single time I actually saw a resistor fail unless there was a short circuit elsewhere. They're simply so huge compared to the the circuit amperage that they rarely fail.

I worked for Motorola my entire adult life until retired and a TOTALLY AGREE with you.  Those tiny little black and white ceramic resistors can handle so much more than they are rated for.

Before my circuit board design days there, I was a thick film circuit designer prior to the industry adopting them.  I designed so many values of tiny chip resistors on 3" x 3" sheets of thin white ceramic.  We learned then how bullet proof they were.  Some could get so hot that the solder melted before the resistor fried.

Ever since LED's came out, I've wondered why new houses don't have a separate 12v circuit for real LED fixtures. 

We are not there yet but I suspect that might eventually happen.  In my current new build home the fixtures will all be LED with transformers built in.  But in several areas we were offered the choice of all in one fixtures or a larger central transformer to feed a low voltage lighting circuit.  All in one fixtures were about $25 each.  Low voltage fixtures were about $25 each plus over $400 for the big transformer.  And then we needed an accessible area or closet to put the transformer in and it needed air movement because it generates heat.  Not really a tough choice for us.  There was also concern over the wire run length from the transformer but I did not pay much attention after I saw the pricing.

So right now, you can do it either way.  And I have been at open houses for new homes that did have low voltage lighting and central transformers.  So it is being done.