Parallax Power Center

Considering replacing the house batts with AGM.  Is the converter a 3 stage?  Always understand this was pretty much a necessity for AGM, but finding conflicting info on Internet, surprise!  Any advice or experience appreciaated.

Mike

I purchased a 2019 2552 that was built for the PA RV Convention. It has 2 6v AGM batteries and a Progressive Dynamics Inc Model PD4500 "Power Control Center" that I think is PC standard.  The control center is an all in one box with breakers, fuses, and converter built in. When I checked to see if the converter was properly programmed for the AGM batteries I was surprised to find that it is not programable. The converter specified output voltages (Boost Mode, Normal Mode, and Storage Mode) are not the same as the battery manufacture (Trojan) recommends.

I called Progressive Dynamics and they told me this converter is good for either lead acid or AGM batteries. Trojan was not familiar with the Progressive Dynamics converter and would not comment on its use. I have not talked to PC about this.

Any one have any info on this?

When I ordered my PC (pick up date was 5/17) their standard converter used was a Parallax. The Parallax converter on my previous RV was a simple charger not a 3 stage and I boiled my batteries on my first outing. 
I changed to a Progressive Industries 3 stage and Lifeline AGM batteries and did fine for the next 10 years.

I checked all of the online data for Parallax at the time of ordering and there was scant info and nothing saying they were now 3 stage so I had PC put in a Progressive Industries PD4060 power station instead.

So, from experience, the Progressive Industries converter works great with Lifeline AGM. No experience using it with other batteries. Surprised you say Trojan is "unfamiliar" with Progressive Industries since they are a major manufacturer of RV converters.

I remain suspicious of Parallax and suspect they may still be a simple (not 3 stage) converter.

Spoke with Parallax it is indeed a single stage converter  They indicate I could add a TempAssure and this would help with AGM's.  In searching archives found others have done this.  Experience?  I also have contacted Best Converter about a Boondocker 4 which is said to be a 3 stage converter that can be retrofitted to the Parallax Power Center.  I am awaiting feedback from them.  Given my past experience on sailboats I tend to lean toward the 3 stage converter, but maybe I am overthinking it.

Spoke with Parallax it is indeed a single stage converter  They indicate I could add a TempAssure and this would help with AGM's.  In searching archives found others have done this.  Experience?  I also have contacted Best Converter about a Boondocker 4 which is said to be a 3 stage converter that can be retrofitted to the Parallax Power Center.  I am awaiting feedback from them.  Given my past experience on sailboats I tend to lean toward the 3 stage converter, but maybe I am overthinking it.

I am agreeing with your overthinking. NO way a single stage charger can efficiently charge batteries.   

A single stage charger is just not good for the batteries. I was surprised that PC was installing them.

I had a Parallax converter in a previous camping trailer.  When I ordered our PC I had them install a Progressive Dynamics 3 stage Converter (13.2, 13.6, and 14.4 volt) unit.  The converter is in a separate enclosure from the breaker box. I have standard wet cell golf cart batteries.


They now offer a 14.8 volt in lieu of the 14.4 volt option which I would have preferred as it minimizes generator run time if the battery requires significant recharge.


The converter selects the appropriate voltage automatically or can be set manually with the charge Wizard.

I have two AGM's.  They are not as good as the people who try and sell them to you.   Stick to Walmart 12 volt $99 deep cycle.  I spent $250 per battery and they do not have the power/amps as a Walmart deep cycle. Wasted money.  Yes there is new battery technology out there.   But it is not AGM's.   AGM,s only means they will outlast a conventunaly battery.  Yes, as an engineer, what they are saying, it will outlast your conventional  battery, but as a cost of power you need to run your coach. You can google Lithium but open your wallets. I live off the grid...... 24/7

I have two AGM's.  They are not as good as the people who try and sell them to you.   Stick to Walmart 12 volt $99 deep cycle.  I spent $250 per battery and they do not have the power/amps as a Walmart deep cycle. Wasted money.  Yes there is new battery technology out there.   But it is not AGM's.   AGM,s only means they will outlast a conventunaly battery.  Yes, as an engineer, what they are saying, it will outlast your conventional  battery, but as a cost of power you need to run your coach. You can google Lithium but open your wallets. I live off the grid...... 24/7

Dont know about AGM's 'lasting longer'...  But thats not 'only' what you get...

-no checking water, or more important the procedure to do so.

-no corrosion on the battery posts, giving more power through the connection longer

- VRLA batteries will self-discharge less than 3% per month at 77º F (25º C). Flooded batteries will self-discharge up to 15% per month at 77º F (25º C). (Per Trojan) For those of us who might be grid suckers, and neglect our batteries for ...lets say 3 months  .. it means the batteries are at ~90%, not ~55% after this time passes. More power for the coach, longer battery life.

Yes, the power/amps are a little less.  My 12V group 31's are rated 105AH.  I found this FLA group 31 (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Nautilus-31-Deep-Cycle-Marine-Battery-31MDC/205309650) and its 115AH. 10% less capacity in the AGM. I consider that a good tradeoff for the benefits listed above!
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A bit of empirical data.. I have (4) gel cell batteries dated 6/16, (2) trojan AGM group 31's dated 5/18 and 3 group 75 FLA gas cart batteries dated 12/17-5/18 on my spares shelf now. For a few months. I check them weekly with a voltmeter, and supply a charge as necessary. The FLA's need charge monthly, they fall to ~12.2- 12.0 volts sitting for a month. The AGM's get charged every 2 months so far, they tend to go down to 12.6-12.7 after this period.

The gel cells are impressive. Fully charged at new years 2019, they are STILL at 13.03-13.08 (!) rest voltage. 98AH, so not a big capacity penalty. I salvaged them from a Gem Cart, there was a receipt for $2200 for (4) of them dated 8/16. Whoa! The owner didnt know there were 2 more up front..    and never asked before selling the cart to me as broken. Cheap!  Ripped the batteries out and sold the rest for what I paid. 

Swapping out my old Parallax converter for a Progressive Dynamics PD9245CV Inteli-Power 9200 was one of the cheapest and easiest upgrades I've done.  I paid $186 from Amazon and it works fine with my Costco $150 12V AGM batteries. 

The hardest thing about the whole deal was locating the old converter.  In my 2008 2350, it was behind the cabinet door with the metal grill -- the one with the weird hinges on BOTH sides of the door, so that you have to unscrew one set of hinges to open it.  Once I found it, the new converter screwed into place in the same location, plugged into the same 110v outlet, and had the same 12V connections.  Just be sure to disconnect the batteries before the swap.

Thanks Blueblaze!

I was gonna ask FandJ which model they used.. but that 45A charger will work fine! 

Link - https://www.amazon.com/Progressive-Dynamics-PD9245CV-Inteli-Power-Converter/dp/B000GANZZ6   

Good price too. Hope my 2006 swaps out as easy.

There is a lot of discussion on this subject.  To be honest it overwhelms me.

Phoenix installed 110V to 12V converter/chargers in their rigs through most of model year 2006.  These came with a single house battery.

Late in the 2006 model year, Phoenix changed from a single house battery to 2 batteries to support 12V to 110V inverted power.  The inverter/converter of choice at the time was the Tripp-Lite RV2012UL.  Tripp-Lite has since replaced it with model MRV2012UL.

I don't know the year Phoenix changed inverters, but the Tripp-Lite unit was installed at least through model year 2008.

I wonder how the Tripp-Lite MRV2012UL compares to all the talk of converters and inverters today.  If our Tripp-Lite fails one day, my plan would be to replace it with the MRV2012UL, or possibly Tripp-Lite APS2012.  But I wonder if doing so, I would miss out on benefits of significance that are a complete mysterious to me.  I wonder why everyone avoids the Tripp-Lite option.

If you have not explored Battery University,  its a great place to learn about things such as this.

Regarding charging, and why the single stage charger in my 2006 is not the best for my battery..   one really wants 14-14.5 volts for best charging. Mine tops out at 13.67 on my meter.

This is a '400' level course, so a tad technical. Knowing your background, you should be fine.

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_the_lead_acid_battery

and another reason AGM is popular.. I check every month on all batteries in storage.

Lead acid batteries must always be stored in a charged state. A topping charge should be applied every 6 months to prevent the voltage from dropping below 2.05V/cell and causing the battery to sulfate. With AGM, these requirements can be relaxed.

Ron, I just did a very quick look at the specs of the units you mentioned. As an inverter/charger they pack a lot into a small space. A few dislikes for me..looks like no external readout to provide info/error codes of what's going on.

The specs never list the charging profile..a strong dislike for me as different battery types and manufacturers have a recommended charging profile..no profile leaves you running blind if it is within optimize limits. (Also why I dislike the Parallax converter)

The MRV2012 is a PWM inverter not a pure sine wave. Many recommend a pure sine wave for electronics...but as with many things in the RV world there is plenty of discussion if needed. I prefer the pure sine just to be safe.

If you switched to separate chargers and inverters or other brand inverter/chargers it could mean significant wire changes for you.

Just a few quick thoughts for you.

..Mike

Thanks Mike  for "lifting the fog" a bit.