Phoenix's 2019 Brochure, What Were They Thinking?

Volkemon,

Looking at Pleasure Way, you can cover a lot more with a 65 page brochure. 

Certainly!  Especially when *every* page has product and/or info in it.  No full page mood pictures.

And in the day of digital... no too many excuses to limit your media. Not like a 64 page PDF costs more to download and store than a 20 page PDF.  Sure, you cant let ""anybody"" do marketing, and layout takes time and money... but that is a 'constant' in the market that was true in 1988.  If anything, the lack of need for paper brochure, and the HUGE exposure from the internet.. its easier now to advertise. (I can still remember laying out boards for a small 16-24 page newspaper by hand. 1991. Now the entire print run can be sent as a PDF. Changes done instantly, and MUCH cheaper)

No hate for PC here, not being a fanboy for anyone else.  LOVE my PC.    About the only other RV I have lusted after since owning my PC was ANOTHER  PC.    

I am still trying to find another example of AC and generator being 'add on' and not standard.  Even with my VERY limited experience in RV ownership, and total lack of experience buying a new one, it seems ridiculous. But using 'common sense' these days doesnt work all that well.... But I am willing to believe, just in the learning phase.

Consider this quote from the current PC brochure -

"We go the extra mile by providing standard equipment not found on competitive units."    Um...like...  I am wanting to verify that. Maybe their claim is there are no truly competitive units to them, so in a group of one they are the best? That would be factually correct... I guess...

Wordplay and verbal tricks in advertising are as old as advertising. Would you consider all the horizontal surface on the top of your Rv to be  "roof"? Like on your house? So...its a three piece roof with two seams. (Thats common sense leading you astray, however.)  But if you only call one piece 'roof', and do not consider the horizontal part of the front cap and rear cap "roof" ....then you now have a one piece roof! 

If you call a dogs tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have?

Before Mrs V and I pay more for a new RV than our first house..... I am gonna read all the small print. And research.  I want to be proud of what we have, and be able to back it up with facts.  So far, PC is the best I have seen. Just want to keep it that way until we sign the check.

Before Mrs V and I pay more for a new RV than our first house

Ha, ha.

We paid $59,000 for our first house in 1978.
We paid $67,200 for our PC in 2007, 29 years later.

We got you beat 12 years ago.

Quote from: Volkemon on March 05, 2019, 02:28:07 pm

Before Mrs V and I pay more for a new RV than our first house

Ha, ha.

We paid $59,000 for our first house in 1978.
We paid $67,200 for our PC in 2007, 29 years later.

We got you beat 12 years ago.

 

Ron, call and get one of the new brochures. Those are probably real pics that come out funky on the download. After you see the actual brochure, give them your feedback. If the brochure is good but the online file is not, they should be able to fix it.

There is no way pictures comes out funky in download. These are almost fake picture as far as I'm concerned. I've seen resorts and new home developments use these kinds of pictures that show everything like they would like it to be, but not really reality. They show pristine beaches with no people instead of real pictures. You can take a picture, then photoshop it to eliminate reality. See Real vs NotReal below.
 I liked Stewart and Earl's real pictures over the past 15 years but I don't care for these.
Just my opinion and has nothing to do with PC's quality and ability to custom make to your needs.
A/C and Generators have always been optional but 99% of PC owners seem to choose the optional package that included them.
I have both, but seldom use either but for resale it's the only way to go.

 Real

 Not Real

Second photo is still real. Just a lot of Photoshop enhancements added to what appears to be a HDR photo. Nice job pasting in the outdoor shots in the windows!

I know one thing they say was finally corrected in the 2019 brochure and that is the holding tank sizes for several models including mine , a 3100. My 2018 brochure and the 2017 brochure and maybe one or two before it state that the gray tank size is 50 gal. and the black is 35 gal.. Wrong. The black is actually 35 gal. and the gray is 23 gal. Now as far as I am concerned that is absolutely ridiculous when you have over 40 gal. capacity of fresh water. When I was at the plant recently there comment was "well it really isn't a big deal as you can dump grey water on the ground most anywhere". I raised holy H about this and told them those poorly designed models should never have been built if that was the best they could do. I know about there disclaimer statement but I wonder if a jury would agree with them or me. Someone is responsible for this misleading information in the brochure whether by design or mistake. Now, my question for those with models affected, is has anyone had their gray tank switched out to a larger size?

Even on a 3100 the gray is only 23 gallons?  It is 23 in my 2350 but I thought the larger models had larger tanks. I always thought PC should have reversed the tank sizes to 23 black and 35 gray. It’s really difficult to stretch the gray tank out for several days at only 23 gallons. I’m not about to just dump my gray tank on the ground!

Regarding the 23 and 35 gallon waste water tanks.....

I believe those tanks fit into specific positions on the E350 and E450 chassis frame extensions.  I examined my 2007 2350 and observed a specific hanger system of good quality that clip up nicely to the rear frame extensions.  From my recollection, the 23 gallon tank could be a teenie-tiny bit bigger at the sacrifice to the compartment that contains the Sanicon system.  But the narrow 93" PC body is by far the biggest factor.

Now with regard to which tank is gray and which is black....the location of the toilet in the floor plan designates which tank becomes the black tank.  Our 2007 2350 has the larger 35 gallon tank doing black duty.  I wish it was the smaller 23 gallon to avoid the fuss of flooding the black tank with gray water all the time.

Here is a picture of our 2350 underside.  The silver-insulated gray tank is on the left, the silver insulated black tank is in the middle.  You can see the gray tank is right up against the Sanicon compartment.  If the PC body was wider, the tank could be made wider by that much.  With consideration to everything, I don't see Phoenix doing any better.

Well hey! 

Here I am thinking the tank on the drivers side was the black tank, due to the location under the commode. Thanks Ron!

Great picture of the holding tanks. My 2018 3100, looks exactly the same. With that in mind was there ever a real 50 gallon tank on the 3100 or just an advertising gimmick? I ask Dave why they couldn"t at least. add a 35 gallon tank (same size as their black tank) forward of the black tank. That would keep the wastewater centered on the coach and add much needed capacity. He said they would look at it. Engineering should be able to figure out the changes to the drain lines. I plan to follow up with them every few weeks to see if something is really going to happen. Hopefully something positive will happen!

With that in mind was there ever a real 50 gallon tank on the 3100 or just an advertising gimmick?

I have been an active PC owner since 2007 and I have never seen anything installed but the 23 and 35 gallon waste tanks since 2007.  The floor plan determines which is used for gray and black waste water.

I ask Dave why they couldn"t at least. add a 35 gallon tank (same size as their black tank) forward of the black tank. That would keep the wastewater centered on the coach and add much needed capacity. He said they would look at it. Engineering should be able to figure out the changes to the drain lines. I plan to follow up with them every few weeks to see if something is really going to happen. Hopefully something positive will happen!

I would be surprised if Phoenix could sneak in a second waste tank between the current 35 gallon tank and the fuel tank.  They are very close to each other (with consideration to frame material) on my rig as shown.

The pictures were taken to show my back-up stinky slinky storage tube mounted, article with pictures HERE



I can't say for certain, but I think Phoenix treats the frame extension with waste tanks as a modular design to some degree, that applies to many different models regardless of length.

When you add up 35 + 23, that equals 57 gallons of waste water.  The fresh water system holds just over 40 gallons.  Having bigger waste tanks wouldn't get utilized unless you add more fresh water without dumping.  If you fill up your waste tanks and then fill up your fresh water tank without dumping, you are surely carrying a lot of extra weight in the worst possible location.

Preparing our PC for winter storage, for odor control, I fill both waste and the fresh water tank to capacity with fresh water and some bleach, soak them for a while, then drain, refill with fresh water, soak a while, then drain again, done to store everything empty but clean & fresh.  When all tanks are filled to capacity, the rear of our PC has a very serious sag to it.  I would not want to drive our PC that way.  So with that consideration, I think the 23/35 waste tank configuration is best to be left alone.

A practical method of utilizing the 57 gallons of combined waste water capacity, is flooding gray water into the black waste tank as needed.  With our 23 gallon gray water tank, I do that once or twice between dumps, usually during shower-time.  One of my to-do projects is adding redundant waste tank valve electric control switches inside our PC so I can flood our black tank with gray water from inside when needed.  Otherwise I am running outside half dressed after my shower and Irene in the shower saying the water won't drain out the shower pan.  Since we boondock all the time, I do that all the time.

Regarding comments about dumping gray water on the ground...I'm not saying "yea" or "nay", but, quite frankly, I don't see the problem in areas such as Corps of Engineers parks and other parks were no sewer is available.   IMHO, the thoughts of gray water are a little antiquated.  Soaps of today are not what they were several years ago.  Basically, the only thing that goes into gray water tank is water from showers and washing dishes.  Most all these soaps are environmentally friendly.

I have talked with some who would never dream of dumping gray water on the ground, YET, to avoid filling the tank, they wash their dishes in a pan and, guess what....dump the pan outside.

I am not trying to stir a pot...I dont like licking the spoon!

Cheers
Barry T

We wash dishes in a pan and dump the dishwater down the toilet.