K&N performance air intake

I have a 77-2570KTK on order.  Looking to gain a little climbing power at 3600-3800 rpm and maybe one mpg on the highway. Not too concerned about increased noise.

Have any of you tried this on a Ford 6.8 ?
305 HP from a 6.8 is underwhelming. The Banks system with headers is too involved, but a chambered Magnaflow muffler may be next.

The engine computer compensates for more or less air flow by kerping the mixture optimum.  No more overly rich mixture as used to be the case as the air filter got dirty.

You just get less power.  A higher flow muffler won't help if you don't also add a higher flow catalytic converter and, don't increase the amount of air coming in the engine.

In other words, you need an completely involved system like Banks to get any increased power/mpg all the time.

K&N dyno chart shows 17 hp gain @ 4100 rpm.

My experience is limited to GM LS and LT series  engines. Lower IAT  tells the ecm pull less timing , and increased MAF tells it to add fuel.  Chambered mufflers absolutely reduce  back pressure  compared to baffled designs. A 6.8  V10 with single exhaust and a 5.4  V8 airbox is  restricted on both sides.

My experience with K&N is not very praising.  You may get a very slight increase in horse power under certain conditions, but the filter needs a special dirt-catching oil sprayed on it to capture fine particles.  As a result, it clogs much more easily & quickly compared to a standard pleated paper filter.  The end result is that you have to maintain it much more frequently or it will do more harm than good.  If the oil is sprayed too heavily on the filter, then is placed inside the air housing, the air chamber itself will get oily making a bigger mess with a layer of dirty sludge clinging all over the place.  It was just too much fuss for what little it might offer under driving certain conditions.  I learned this off a different vehicle, not our E350 PC.

I suppose a K&N would serve me well under competition driving where the entire vehicle is inspected and tweaked just before a competition.  But I never had such a hobby.

On our PC, I check the standard pleated paper air filter annually and typically change it every other year regardless how clean it looks.  We average roughly 4000 miles per year.

There are extreme cases calling for immediate changing of the air filter.  For example, driving our old Toyota motor home down inside Monument Valley when it was very windy.  I opened the filter housing after our visit and the entire pleated paper air filter was covered with a layer of red dust.  Changing your air filter by miles driven works to a point, but pay attention to unique circumstances.

Since we are discussing air filters and intake, everyone with a Ford chassis should read through THIS post I wrote on how anyone working on your Ford could make a simple mistake during assembly, causing a very significant air flow blockage.

When I bought my 2014 Sprinter 2350 used last year it came with a K&N air filter which was rather dirty. After doing some research I found that some owners advised against the K&N stating that applying too much of the special oil to the filter after washing it can cause the Mercedes Blutek engine to throw a “check engine” code. I replaced the filter with a OEM Mann filter and actually noticed a slight improvement in mpg. However, I must add that at the same time I  had the exhaust extension on the tailpipe that was added at the time the motorhome conversion removed and replaced by one that fit over the original pipe instead of inside of it. Although a minor change it did remove some restriction that had been added to the exhaust.

K&N dyno chart shows 17 hp gain @ 4100 rpm.

My experience is limited to GM LS and LT series  engines. Lower IAT  tells the ecm pull less timing , and increased MAF tells it to add fuel.  Chambered mufflers absolutely reduce  back pressure  compared to baffled designs. A 6.8  V10 with single exhaust and a 5.4  V8 airbox is  restricted on both sides.

But on the highway, where the majority of most RV mileage is run, you're running around 2,600 rpm where the increase in horsepower is minimal.  In Colorado, where I live, the only place I pull 4,100rpm is over the high passes on the continental divide.  And yes, I use a K&N filter and have for years, mainly because I do live in the mountains.  They last a lot longer too.

But the end result is *maybe* 1 or 2 miles per hour faster over those passes.   Certainly nothing significant or really even noticeable.

Don

My experience with K&N is not very praising.  You may get a very slight increase in horse power under certain conditions, but the filter needs a special dirt-catching oil sprayed on it to capture fine particles.  As a result, it clogs much more easily & quickly compared to a standard pleated paper filter.  The end result is that you have to maintain it much more frequently or it will do more harm than good.  If the oil is sprayed too heavily on the filter, then is placed inside the air housing, the air chamber itself will get oily making a bigger mess with a layer of dirty sludge clinging all over the place.  It was just too much fuss for what little it might offer under driving certain conditions.  I learned this off a different vehicle, not our E350 PC.

I suppose a K&N would serve me well under competition driving where the entire vehicle is inspected and tweaked just before a competition.  But I never had such a hobby.

On our PC, I check the standard pleated paper air filter annually and typically change it every other year regardless how clean it looks.  We average roughly 4000 miles per year.

There are extreme cases calling for immediate changing of the air filter.  For example, driving our old Toyota motor home down inside Monument Valley when it was very windy.  I opened the filter housing after our visit and the entire pleated paper air filter was covered with a layer of red dust.  Changing your air filter by miles driven works to a point, but pay attention to unique circumstances.

Since we are discussing air filters and intake, everyone with a Ford chassis should read through THIS post I wrote on how anyone working on your Ford could make a simple mistake during assembly, causing a very significant air flow blockage.

Independent testing has shown that a K&N filter when ready for cleaning (typically 30,000 to 50,000 miles) has better airflow than a brand new standard air filter.

Just sayin

Independent testing has shown that a K&N filter when ready for cleaning (typically 30,000 to 50,000 miles) has better airflow than a brand new standard air filter.

Just sayin

Tests also show airflow increases even more when you leave the filter out...   

What about filtration?

I did find this, and the methodology is impeccable.. IMO..  https://nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html

Quote from: donc13 on December 04, 2018, 09:22:46 am

Independent testing has shown that a K&N filter when ready for cleaning (typically 30,000 to 50,000 miles) has better airflow than a brand new standard air filter.

Just sayin

Tests also show airflow increases even more when you leave the filter out...   

What about filtration?

I did find this, and the methodology is impeccable.. IMO..  https://nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html

Volkemon....

Those test results speak so loudly.  Just use a pleated paper filter, OEM is best, but any brand changed regularly does the job well.

Quote from: CalCruiser on December 03, 2018, 04:58:54 pm

K&N dyno chart shows 17 hp gain @ 4100 rpm.

My experience is limited to GM LS and LT series  engines. Lower IAT  tells the ecm pull less timing , and increased MAF tells it to add fuel.  Chambered mufflers absolutely reduce  back pressure  compared to baffled designs. A 6.8  V10 with single exhaust and a 5.4  V8 airbox is  restricted on both sides.

But on the highway, where the majority of most RV mileage is run, you're running around 2,600 rpm where the increase in horsepower is minimal.  In Colorado, where I live, the only place I pull 4,100rpm is over the high passes on the continental divide.  And yes, I use a K&N filter and have for years, mainly because I do live in the mountains.  They last a lot longer too.

But the end result is *maybe* 1 or 2 miles per hour faster over those passes.   Certainly nothing significant or really even noticeable.

Don

We  live at sea level, but the  Sierras Nevadas are only 500 miles north. I am envious of the 6.7 Powerstroke diesel F250 guys. I don't exceed 3850rpm because that's where  peak hp and torque cross, at  56mph in 2nd gear (E350). On all but the steepest stretches of I-80 between Sacramento and Truckee 3rd gear at 2750  rpm keeps pace with anyone,  and motors on  past the slow tractor trailer rigs. But when it has to drop down to 2nd it's a strain to  keep up with an F250 Powerstroke pulling a trailer. So hopefully increasing peak hp from 305 @ 3850 to 322@4100 will make a difference of a few mph as you said.

Cruise control in the flatlands at 65 mph @ 2300 rpm (E350 gearing) is pleasant enough in stock form because the V10  is already making 400 ft/lbs torque.   Perhaps increased throttle response and a few more hp will yield shorter downshifts on minor grades  and a slight improvement in mpg , although that's not the main objective.

I ordered the complete intake kit, not just a filter.

I have been holding off on installing the chip tune I got while searching for a dyno that can accommodate a motor home. Found a couple that handle the weight and duallies, but are lacking in ceiling height.  Oh well. I am about SICK of waiting to do it ""right"". Have to use ye olde 'seat of the pants' dyno. Maybe choose a couple spots for timed runs.

Or just do the 'I paid for this, it must feel better! ' route. 

But it gives me that same 17hp increase as the K&N, but at 2800 RPM. (42HP extra at 3200 RPM). I have yet to find a dyno chart to demonstrate the K&N filter HP increase/engine RPM.  Might be out there, I just cant find it. 

The 'power band' (torque peak to HP peak) is 3900-5000+ RPM stock. 3300-4600 modified with the chip tune.

Useful torque? Over 60 ft/lbs increase (25%!) over stock 3100-3600RPM

Unfortunately the kit is not legal or shipped to CA.     But I would be a REALLY hard sell on a $400 air intake that might increase power %6, regardless of how limited my other options were.

I might even be tempted to use shenanigans with an out of state friend to get the chip tune. Easily reversible should smog check be needed. 

My PC needs to be exercised, been parked for a few weeks. Maybe I will install the tune and drive it in to work the next few days and see if it is a 'ride changing' event.

Wont have the cool intake roar though. That does seem to be a common feature of aftermarket air intakes. Turn up the radio.

I have been holding off on installing the chip tune I got while searching for a dyno that can accommodate a motor home. Found a couple that handle the weight and duallies, but are lacking in ceiling height.  Oh well. I am about SICK of waiting to do it ""right"". Have to use ye olde 'seat of the pants' dyno. Maybe choose a couple spots for timed runs.

Or just do the 'I paid for this, it must feel better! ' route. 

But it gives me that same 17hp increase as the K&N, but at 2800 RPM. (42HP extra at 3200 RPM). I have yet to find a dyno chart to demonstrate the K&N filter HP increase/engine RPM.  Might be out there, I just cant find it. 

The 'power band' (torque peak to HP peak) is 3900-5000+ RPM stock. 3300-4600 modified with the chip tune.

Useful torque? Over 60 ft/lbs increase (25%!) over stock 3100-3600RPM

Unfortunately the kit is not legal or shipped to CA.     But I would be a REALLY hard sell on a $400 air intake that might increase power %6, regardless of how limited my other options were.

I might even be tempted to use shenanigans with an out of state friend to get the chip tune. Easily reversible should smog check be needed. 

My PC needs to be exercised, been parked for a few weeks. Maybe I will install the tune and drive it in to work the next few days and see if it is a 'ride changing' event.

Wont have the cool intake roar though. That does seem to be a common feature of aftermarket air intakes. Turn up the radio.

Just get a Scangauge, no dyno needed

Before you reflash the ecm make sure your battery voltage is good, and turn off all dome lights and anything else that could cause a voltage drop while programming.  The ecm in my car had a checksum error failure at 50k miles that may have been caused by a  Diablosport Predator, resulting in an expensive flatbed tow to the GM dealership.

Well now... A scanguage can tell HP/torque output?!?  I was under the impression that it was an OBDII data reader.

A bit of reading does state it can determine 'Instantaneous Horespower'. Maybe not accurate as compared to a dyno, but it would be good for comparing before and after!  The 5 star devise does give me the data, but doesnt 'do the math' and give horsepower numbers... and only $130.

https://www.campingworld.com/scangaugekr-kevin-rutherford-edition?CAWELAID=120030630000004418&gclid=Cj0KCQiAi57gBRDqARIsABhDSMoP1hdKJ0Ob_J56JMW_s155XOKdORnQkATiaeoM5PO_406n7LAnIJ8aAjTiEALw_wcB

Might check at camping world on the way home. Drove the PC in to work today to get a baseline feel before I flash the ECM tonight. Will have the battery topped off. Good advice!

Now I have to see who Kevin Rutherford is, and why a scangage is named after him... 

I have yet to find a dyno chart to demonstrate the K&N filter HP increase/engine RPM.  Might be out there, I just cant find it. 

The 'power band' (torque peak to HP peak) is 3900-5000+ RPM stock.

Dynojet rwhp and torque stock vs K&N intake. Click on the graph in this link to download the entire chart.
https://www.knfilters.com/mobile/blog/kn-releases-ford-motorhome-super-duty-van-air-intake-with-more-power-guarantee

Don't forget, horsepower is torque x rpm (divided by a constant) so torque is the ONLY measurement you need.

At any rpm, the higher the torque, the higher the hp.