Best Small Dhingy Cars

Thanks Mikeh for the clear explanation!  And I am delighted that Jeep fixed this issue with the 2019 models.  I believe the death wobble started with the 2016 model year and despite the dealer's sales manager telling me it was 'fixed' (even though he had never heard of it) it was an issue on my 2017 and I assume the 2018 model year. 

The dealer insisted I pay $1,700 to have it installed after the sale.  I complained loudly and my salesman backed me up because I had stated repeatedly the only reason I was buying the Jeep was to tow.  And the sales manager had insisted there was 'no problem'.  We settled on $200.  Two months later I got a notice form a collection agency asking for the remaining $1,500.  After several letters back and forth they let it go.  But I will not be buying anything from that dealer again.

Do you still have the in dash switch to turn on the power steering computer or is this now automatic?

John, on the 2019 Cherokee, there is no switch to apply power to the EPS.  I don't know for sure exactly HOW Jeep remedied the "death wobble" issue, but it doesn't seem to be an electrical solution.  The consensus from the Jeep enthusiast forums is that they evidently installed some type of dampening in the steering mechanism.  As a matter of fact, Jeep has not done a good job of communicating on this issue.  I understand that has been a hallmark of the issue ever since it first surfaced--it took Jeep some time to acknowledge it back in 2016, and then there was mixed messaging from various dealers and service personnel regarding whether it existed, was fixed, or how to address it.  Jeep finally published the Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) that defined the condition and the wiring harness solution, but even after that there were rumors that it had been corrected on 2017 models, then on 2018 models--neither which was accurate. 

Even with the 2019's, the printed "User Guide" that I got with my new vehicle still has the old Recreational Vehicle Towing Chart that specifies use of the "flat tow wiring kit" and also the Warning Box that states that you must "use the proper Mopar wiring kit to power the steering system", and the necessity of charging the battery while towing.  The more updated information, however--the online 2019 Owner's Manual, as well as the electronic manual you can access from the vehicle multi-media system has eliminated all references to those requirements.  There is also a Jeep communication that mentions that the TSB for the EPS wiring harness fix does NOT apply to 2019 models, but finding all this information takes some diligence and persistence online.  I have seen some complaints of customers buying new 2019's and the dealer installed the wiring harness, only to find that they don't need it.  Just as occurred with initial identification of this issue and mixed communication from various dealerships, it looks like communication of the fix is erratic within the dealership network, and it's going to take some time to percolate throughout.  Jeep is proud of their reputation as a "go-to" vehicle for towing, and even emphasize that in their advertising, but haven't really taken care of all details supporting that business.

MikeH Thanks for the update.  Sounds like the issue has been fixed on 2019 and that is a very good thing.  Outside of this issue I am very happy with my 2017 Cherokee.  And I agree 100% that communication has been very poor on this.

Anyway, you have a great vehicle and I hope you enjoy it. 

Have you got your tow gear installed yet?

Not yet--just took delivery of the Trailhawk early this week, and my PC delivery will probably be pushing end of year.  I plan to get on that pretty quickly, however, and have spent time researching that (bars, braking and lighting options, etc) as well.  Always open to advice based on experience though.

I went with the Roadmaster Sterling tow bar and Roadmaster Invisibrake. 
There are lots of good products out there and you will get different opinions depending on what people have used.  The decision was easy for me because the Roadmaster factory is 20 miles from my house.  We just dropped the Jeep and coach off one day and picked it up the next.  Factory install, factory guarantee, factory service.  Base plate, tow bar, lighting and wiring all done.  The install tech insisted I hook up myself and take a test drive while he watched and road shotgun.  Gave suggestions and made sure I understood the entire process before letting us leave.

So far all is good and I am very happy with it.

I went with the Roadmaster Sterling tow bar and Roadmaster Invisibrake. 
There are lots of good products out there and you will get different opinions depending on what people have used.  The decision was easy for me because the Roadmaster factory is 20 miles fro8m my house.  We just dropped the Jeep and coach off one day and picked it up the next.  Factory install, factory guarantee, factory service.  Base plate, tow bar, lighting and wiring all done.  The install tech insisted I hook up myself and take a test drive while he watched and road shotgun.  Gave suggestions and made sure I understood the entire process before letting us leave.

So far all is good and I am very happy with it.

VERY nice!

Blueblaze, did you buy your smart equipped with a base plate? If you did that’s an additional 1000-1200 saved. You can deduct that from the cost. The cost of a lazer cut key is high no matter what brand. For my Lexus it was 500 plus, for my beemer a bit more and I’m damn sure it’s not much diff for my ford. The engine in the smart is not Mercedes it’s made by Mitsubishi and I’ve seen a few now with over 150,0000 miles and running strong. So if you want the valves checked shop around, forget going to Mercedes.   
On the back roads in Minn I got 55 mpg scooting around at  50 mph. On open road I get 43 at  70 mph.  The reason they don’t sell well in North America s two fold. One, unlike in Europe we have a lot of open highways and a short wheel base rides rough.  Two, we have cheap gas, in Italy where they would kill for 4 dollar a gallon gas we don’t give it a second thought. Americans love big!

I talked to a salesesman who was on his second smart. He drove the first over 200,000 miles. He said I gat 200,000 miles on a car I bought new for 12 grand and never saw a day in the shop. What other car can I buy that gets over 40 mph and costs 12 grand?

We have 35,000 on ours. I bought it new for a little under 12 grand. It’s a great city car but it sucks for the rough ride on the open highway. But then we bought it for a toad. The downside for us is it can’t go on a lot of the rough roads we want to travel due to low clearance. I don’t need 4x4 but I need clearance. We’re looking at selling both our cars and going to one due to we simply don’t need two anymore. Of our present two cars being the Fusion and the smart , if we do get rid of them we will miss the smart the most and by far it’s the most trouble free and cheapest per mile of the two we have.  The Smart is perfect for city driving and it’s our go to for around town but in our case we should go to one vehicle and the smart isn’t big enough to cover all our needs.

Too be frank, I haven’t a clue what I’m going to do as it seems every vehicle I’d consider can’t be towed 4 down.

I went with the Roadmaster Sterling tow bar and Roadmaster Invisibrake. 
There are lots of good products out there and you will get different opinions depending on what people have used.  The decision was easy for me because the Roadmaster factory is 20 miles from my house.  We just dropped the Jeep and coach off one day and picked it up the next.  Factory install, factory guarantee, factory service.  Base plate, tow bar, lighting and wiring all done.  The install tech insisted I hook up myself and take a test drive while he watched and road shotgun.  Gave suggestions and made sure I understood the entire process before letting us leave.

So far all is good and I am very happy with it.

Thanks for the input, John.  I've heard really good things about the Sterling.  You are fortunate to be so close to quality components and service at Roadmaster.  Not many local options in southeast Oklahoma, but another forum member, Done Working, lives in Oklahoma City and was able to recommend a well-experienced RV service shop he used there to get his Trailhawk set up a couple of years ago.  I know some folks also just drive their tow unit out to Elkhart to pick up their PC, and make their first stop afterwards at Dan's Service Center which is evidently the best place in Elkhart to get a professional tow package installation.  As you say, lots of good products out there--and some good installation options if you research.

Thanks for the input, John.  I've heard really good things about the Sterling.  You are fortunate to be so close to quality components and service at Roadmaster.  Not many local options in southeast Oklahoma, but another forum member, Done Working, lives in Oklahoma City and was able to recommend a well-experienced RV service shop he used there to get his Trailhawk set up a couple of years ago.  I know some folks also just drive their tow unit out to Elkhart to pick up their PC, and make their first stop afterwards at Dan's Service Center which is evidently the best place in Elkhart to get a professional tow package installation.  As you say, lots of good products out there--and some good installation options if you research.
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Since you mentioned Dan's in Elkhart...I took my Terrain there yesterday (Friday) to have it rewired and replace the connection.  They are excellent.  Not cheap, but worth every penny.  The tech who did it actually came and got me out of the customer lounge, took me back to the shop and explained everything he did and why he did it.

Cheers...
Barry T

Mike, I believe Camping World can install Roadmaster tow bars.  That is where I saw it first but when I noticed the factory was in Vancouver we just went there.

Now whether you trust Camping World is whole 'nuther question.  The one here in Troutdale has done some work for me and I was satisfied with it.  It was warranty work on my air conditioner so little choice, but they did the job.  I have heard lots of unhappy reports about them though.  I suppose, like everything, its the people doing the work who matter.  Some are good, some not so much.

Another thing to keep in mind is that you are going to want to get your coach aligned once you have it and get some gear and weight inside.  Maybe that can be done at the same place as you get the tow gear installed.  Just a thought.

Barry T, thanks for your validation of Dan's--virtually everything I've read about them has been positive (and that has been a lot).  They appear to be genuine experts in the RV/off-road tow and accessories business.

John, your evaluation of Camping World duplicates exactly the general read-out I get from several different forums.  Looks like the individual sites may vary quite a bit in customer satisfaction, and of course it may depend on what you're having done, and how knowledgeable the staff of that particular site may be in that field.
Regarding the alignment.  I note that one of the things that Phoenix Cruiser includes in their "13 Upgraded Standards for 2019" is a "Front End Alignment for all models".  I assume that means that they previously didn't do routine alignments, but are now having one done on each unit before delivery.  Of course, as you note, that wouldn't be fully loaded with Customer gear, but maybe it's at least a better starting point.

I probably should add a word of contrition and apology to WillieontheRoad.  Our discussions have somewhat wandered astray from your initial topic of "Best Small Dingy Cars", but at least most of our comments relate to towing issues, so perhaps there remains some value for readers--I know there has been for me.

Agree on the topic straying, but lots of good info anyway.

Re alignment:  I specified that my rig was to be aligned before pickup.  I know they had it to the alignment shop that morning or at least they told me that is where it was.  However, either the job was poorly done or adding customer weight makes a big difference.  The trip home I fought it all the way.  White knuckles and DW could barely drive it.  Took it to our local Les Schwab tire shop who re-did the job.  Amazing difference.  Goes down the road with one hand on the wheel.

So after you pick up and load your gear take a test drive.  It should handle like a good pickup (just bigger) .  If you are fighting it, stop and get it aligned.

Thanks, John.  Great information based on experience.  Exceedingly valuable to we new (or soon to be) owners--especially to someone like myself with no previous RV experience.  We owe all the veterans on this forum a debt of gratitude for taking the time to pass on experience that they have gained at the expense of time, money and frustration.  We will just need to pay it forward when we can.

Blueblaze, did you buy your smart equipped with a base plate?

No, I just spent the weekend installing a Roadmaster baseplate myself.  What an ordeal!  You have to remove all the plastic body work from the front half of the car!  And to make matters worse, somebody had removed all that stuff before at some point and managed to lose half the hardware!  Even the cooling baffle was missing!  I had to spend an extra $50 on baffling and a pile of little plastic fastener gadgets to put to all back together.  You just never know what you're going to get with used car.  I hope this is the last of the issues, but something tells me that whoever didn't think a cooling baffle was important probably didn't worry too much about oil changes, either.  But it's comforting to hear that a little three-banger can go 200K.  I'm due for some luck on this thing.

By the way, who knew that a "Curt" round trailer connector was different from a "Hopkins" round trailer connector?  Could I just ask "why?"  Naturally, I didn't discover this until I attempted to connect my existing (Hopkins, apparently) umbilical.  I decided it would be easier to convert my umbilical AND the Ranger than to rip off the front of the Smart again to redo its connector, so it's back to Amazon.  I knew I'd put a Hopkins on the Ranger, but the Curt looked a little nicer.  Just goes to show...

Blueblaze... in the words of Rosanne Rossanadana .... it just goes to show you, it’s always something   



FYI, the smart requires oil changes every 10K however I had an oil analysis done at 5000 and found it’s time to change at 5 K when using Mobil one . It had a little life left but not enough for me to push longer intervals.

BlueBlaze, your ordeal is very common  across many tow vehicles with rare exception to many Jeep models.  A lot has to be removed.

Our first tow vehicle was a 2000 Toyota MR2 Spyder of which I installed a Roadmaster tow bar plate.  Like you, I had the front clip off the car, and it too had been tampered with by a previous owner.  I did get it all back in good order and it turned out to be a very sweet little tow vehicle.

After year #2 towing it, we sold it and got a Jeep Liberty 4x4 to be better equipped for primitive roads.  Our last adventure with the Spyder was in Escalante, driving to a canyon called the narrows or slots.  Determined as we were, going against recommendation, we drove on an unmaintained primitive road with grooves that could swallow up the car, crossing 3 deep but dry river beds and parking at the trail head next to a row of Jeep Wranglers, we knew we needed something more appropriate for our RV trips.