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Firestone Ride-rite air bag helper springs

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BlueBlaze

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Firestone Ride-rite air bag helper springs
« on: May 06, 2018, 07:20:29 pm »
There's been some discussion recently about raising the rear a couple of inches using the Firestone Ride-rite air bag kit.

I just completed the installation on my 2008 PC 2350.  (It's actually a 2007 E-350 chassis).  The kit is Firestone W217602061.  By the way, it's gone up $40 since last fall.  It's now $324.46 on Amazon.

Bottom line -- it didn't raise the rear one little bit.  My rear wheel wells are 33" off the ground with zero pressure in the air bags, and they are 33" off the ground with 80 lbs.  I only have half an inch of overhead clearance on my garage door, and I was able to back out normally, with full pressure.

However, my test was with an unloaded coach.  I think the rear sag that everybody complains about must be due to the 400 pounds of water weight sitting nearly on the bumper.  In fact, now that I think about it, the only times I've had trouble with the rear dragging something was when I was loaded with a full water tank.  So it's very possible that the air bags will keep the coach level when fully loaded.  But my coach has the HWH auto-leveling system, which hangs very low, and I was hoping to improve that situation.  No such luck.

The system is a LOT tougher to install than the manual would lead you to believe.  The manual has you assemble the bags to the mounts before installation.  There simply isn't enough room to do that.  The shocks are too close to the axle.  I had to remove the top mount from the bag and install it loosely.  Then, while squeezing the air out of the bag, I just barely had room to get the rest of the unit in place, and it was still a real bear to fit the bag to the top mount.  Once you finally get the studs through the holes on the top mount, be sure to torque the nuts down holding the bag to the top mount before you tighten down the top mount to the frame.  There is not enough room to get the bag mounting nuts started if you do it the other way.  But on the bright side, I did not have to drill any holes to install the top mounts, as some have mentioned.

The exhaust pipe loops over the axle less than 4" from the bag on the right side.  They give you one heat shield, which is only enough to shield one side of the loop.  I guess I'll have to fabricate another and attach it to the exhaust pipe itself.  I haven't solved that problem yet.

You don't have to remove the wheels.  It would probably be an easier job if you did, but from what I could tell, it didn't look like the assembly would fit in that way either, so I didn't remove mine.  I never feel safe working under a vehicle when the wheels are off.  But you still have to jack the frame up a couple of inches to make room to fit the bags in.  I used my autoleveler to jack up the rear a little, with a couple of jack stands on the frame for safety.

There is not enough pressure line to run the lines all the way to the bumper.  I brought mine out to the sides just in front of the wheel wells, at the top of the bottom skirt.  You can avoid the 1/4" section where the body panels overlap on the left side, but not on the right side, because next to the battery compartment it's all 1/4" thick.  The valve stems are just barely long enough to work with a 1/4" panel.  I had to remove the inner washer to make it work on the right side because my air pump wouldn't depress the pin in the valve stem enough to open the valve.

Short version -- if someone had written this before me, I probably would have saved the $325 and just carried less water.  I'm not sure it was worth the money or the aggravation.  But we rarely boondock, so we don't really need to carry much water.  If you like boondocking, maybe it would be worth it.


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Joseph

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Re: Firestone Ride-rite air bag helper springs
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2018, 10:06:34 pm »
Great info and insight, Thank you!  I wasn’t aware of PC having any rear sag, is that a model specific issue?

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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Firestone Ride-rite air bag helper springs
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2018, 11:56:51 pm »
Thank You BlueBlaze from me too.

Like you, our model 2350 is built on a 2007 E350 chassis.
Like you, we don't have the added weight of a slide out.
Like you, we have that typical slight rear end sag.
Unlike you, we don't have hydraulic levelers.

Some years ago I had considered Firestone airbags to lift the rear a couple of inches, but like many ideas in my head, it lost momentum.  Thank you for your report.  I will be interested in reading later when you are on a trip with a full load, if the rear drops or stays in it's current position.  I would also be interested to know how the air bags filled with the proper amount of air, affects your ride and handling.

Thanks again,
Ron Dittmer

For the others, this is the sag.  Study the picture close and you will see it.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 11:59:27 pm by ron.dittmer »
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CalCruiser

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Re: Firestone Ride-rite air bag helper springs
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2018, 03:39:49 am »
If the '07  E350’s came from Ford with a  rear sway bar maybe that helped prevent the springs from sagging??

My 2350-S has  Firestone Ride-Rites courtesy of the original owner. 40 psi raises the bumper about 2”.  It didn’t have an oem rear sway bar so I added one from Hellwig .

We travel light and don’t tow,  but with 40 psi it rides and handles so nice it’s very easy to forget that it’s a 5 ton truck not a van.
Goin' where the wind goes...

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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Firestone Ride-rite air bag helper springs
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2018, 08:36:30 am »
If the '07  E350’s came from Ford with a  rear sway bar maybe that helped prevent the springs from sagging??

My 2350-S has  Firestone Ride-Rites courtesy of the original owner. 40 psi raises the bumper about 2”.  It didn’t have an oem rear sway bar so I added one from Hellwig.

We travel light and don’t tow,  but with 40 psi it rides and handles so nice it’s very easy to forget that it’s a 5 ton truck not a van.
Adding a rear stabilizer bar, heavy duty or otherwise, does not raise the rear.  It only stabilizes the rear.

Thank you Cal Cruiser for your input on the effect of the Firestone air bags.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 08:38:32 am by ron.dittmer »
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CalCruiser

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Re: Firestone Ride-rite air bag helper springs
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2018, 10:58:43 am »
That is correct, but it also stiffens up the suspension.
Because the Hellwig bar is non-adjustable I was apprehensive that  it might  mess up the ride, but  it did not.  I run aftermarket large diameter adjustable bars on my cars and use the soft setting / outer endlink holes so it’s not too stiff for the streets.

Anyway because of  your Ron.D suspension thread on the other forum the Hellwig rear bar was the first mod that I did to the 2350  2o2  Now all we need is a big brake kit for the E350 then it’s off to the racetrack haha. I will measure  the ride height at the center of the  fender flair and post the results.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 11:56:47 am by CalCruiser »
Goin' where the wind goes...

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BlueBlaze

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Re: Firestone Ride-rite air bag helper springs
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2018, 12:55:07 pm »
If the '07  E350’s came from Ford with a  rear sway bar maybe that helped prevent the springs from sagging??

My 2350-S has  Firestone Ride-Rites courtesy of the original owner. 40 psi raises the bumper about 2”.  It didn’t have an oem rear sway bar so I added one from Hellwig .

We travel light and don’t tow,  but with 40 psi it rides and handles so nice it’s very easy to forget that it’s a 5 ton truck not a van.

Well, maybe it'll loosen up on the road and I'll see that 2".  So far I haven't been out of the driveway with it.  In any case, I'll be sure to hang something from the garage door to remind me to check again that it still clears after our next trip.

While I was under there, I noticed that somebody had installed an aftermarket big blue sway bar, which probably explains why we've never noticed any tail wagging.  But I don't think a sway bar has any effect on the sag,

By the way, would you mind checking how or if your previous owner solved the heat shield problem on the right side?  Maybe its not worth messing with?


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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Firestone Ride-rite air bag helper springs
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2018, 09:44:42 pm »
I am not aware of a blue rear sway bar.  But I have a blue rear trac bar along with a silver sway bar as shown.  Maybe you have both too.
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RheaNL

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Re: Firestone Ride-rite air bag helper springs
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2018, 09:58:01 am »
WE have the 2100 which  has the worst tail sage of all the PCs.   We added airbags, but don't know the brand. Was done at an RV shop. The made a significant difference for us.  Almost 6" when seriously inflated but it does make the ride a little rougher. When on a lot of rough roads (which we were on in Alaska last summer), air needs to be added. When on highways, we let some out to make for a smoother ride.

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Re: Firestone Ride-rite air bag helper springs
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2018, 10:40:55 am »
Rheanl ... I’m confused, the lightest PC has the worst tail sag? Is this due to wheel base or the suspension ?

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rdalton

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Re: Firestone Ride-rite air bag helper springs
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2018, 11:48:09 am »
Thanks BlueBlaze.

I have a 2008 29100 on the E450 and added the Firestone kit last year, with the Airlift remote control and compressor.  It makes a HUGE difference on my rig, lift height and ride.  I do enjoying the pressure adjustment on the fly as well.  I don't know if I could go without it now. ;)

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BlueBlaze

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Re: Firestone Ride-rite air bag helper springs
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2018, 05:01:26 pm »
I am not aware of a blue rear sway bar.  But I have a blue rear trac bar along with a silver sway bar as shown.  Maybe you have both too.


That's my setup exactly, but I couldn't have told you which was which or how they work.  I've been wrenching on my various projects and vehicles for 50 years, but automotive suspension has always struck me as more black art than engineering.   If you say the blue one is the "trac bar" that's good enough for me!

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RheaNL

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Re: Firestone Ride-rite air bag helper springs
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2018, 11:07:01 pm »
Yes, the shortest PC has the worst tail sag.Maybe Ron D., the resident car guy, can explain, but I cannot give a technical explanation.I think it has to do with ratio of wheel base (which is very short and makes for a great turning radius) to overall length. Also, a lot of weight is in the back behind the rear tires...kitchen, bathroom, fresh water tank, hot water tank, best portion of both holding tanks, fridge, rear storage compartment, and spare tire. We humans can easily compound the problem by storing stuff in the shower (a lot of which I have left by the roadside) and setting things just inside the rear door such as power cord and folding chairs.

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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Firestone Ride-rite air bag helper springs
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2018, 10:55:23 am »
Yes, the shortest PC has the worst tail sag.  Maybe Ron D., the resident car guy, can explain, but I cannot give a technical explanation.I think it has to do with ratio of wheel base (which is very short and makes for a great turning radius) to overall length. Also, a lot of weight is in the back behind the rear tires...kitchen, bathroom, fresh water tank, hot water tank, best portion of both holding tanks, fridge, rear storage compartment, and spare tire. We humans can easily compound the problem by storing stuff in the shower (a lot of which I have left by the roadside) and setting things just inside the rear door such as power cord and folding chairs.
RheaNL,

I could not have said it any better.   2o2
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RheaNL

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Re: Firestone Ride-rite air bag helper springs
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2018, 04:46:39 pm »
Thank you Ron.  High praise from a car/RV expert like you.