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6.2 V-8 vs. 6.8 V-10

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Michelle Dungan

6.2 V-8 vs. 6.8 V-10
« on: October 15, 2017, 06:55:21 pm »
Now that the 6.2 V-8 has been available for a while and a few of you have purchased PCs with it, what are your impressions re. horsepower, feelings of bottom-end torque, and miles per gallon compared to equivalent PCs with the 6.8 V-10, now that you're beginning to get it broken-in?  I realize it may be difficult to compare, as few would have driven both, and most V-10s had a 5-speed automatic (really a 6-speed but operating as a 5-speed and skipping one lower gear when cold and a different lower gear when at operating temperature, all for emissions purposes), with only a few recent ones having the 6-speed that uses all 6 gears all the time, vs. the 6.2 V-8s that all use that 6-speed automatic that uses 6-gears all the time.  And, there's the issue of different standard rear differential gear ratios between E-350s vs. E-450s.  But, still, what do any of you have to report, towing and not towing?
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jfcaramagno

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Re: 6.2 V-8 vs. 6.8 V-10
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2017, 04:54:00 pm »
Really, my V10 skips a gear? I have never felt that. How can I tell when it happens?
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Michelle Dungan

Re: 6.2 V-8 vs. 6.8 V-10
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2017, 01:14:40 am »
Some time ago I found a Ford Media Relations pdf that described it but can't find it now.  However, do a search on the transmission with variations of "6-speed" or "6 gears" and you'll find info.  

Here's some from Wikipedia's page on the Super Duty: "The TorqShift design in fact has six forward ratios, but only five are advertised, with the 'hidden' gear only used in extreme cold weather. The TorqShift 1st to 5th gear ratios are 3.11, 2.22, 1.55, 1.00, and 0.71:1. It also utilizes an alternate 4th gear, overdrive on 2nd gear of the 3-speed automatic component (0.72 x 1.55), that is 1.10:1 that is used under cold start conditions to aid engine and transmission warm up."

Here's some other info from Powerstroke Nation:  
Mark Kovalsky 01:15 PM 02-23-2015
First, you need to understand how the TorqShift was built. It is a two speed transmission in front of a three speed transmission.

You can get six ratios by combining the two times three ratios. The problem is that two of the ratios are nearly identical.

The two speed has ratios of 1:1 and 0.71:1.
The three speed has ratios of 3.1:1, 1.54:1, and 1:1.

By combining them you get:
3.1:1
2.2:1
1.54:1
1.09:1
1:1
0.71:1

The 1:1 and 1.09:1 ratios are nearly the same." He also stated this was a more economical design than one with 6 actual gears, but I'm sure part of that also had to do with compatability with other components, with assembly plant components, etc.  Everything's a compromise, of course.

The close ratios of 1.0:1 and about 1.10:1 would allow either to be used depending on temperature and it'd never feel like a gear had been skipped above or below it when upshifting.  One may also feel torque converter lockup to add to the things one would feel while driving.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 01:54:22 am by Michelle Dungan »
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jfcaramagno

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Re: 6.2 V-8 vs. 6.8 V-10
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2017, 04:15:23 pm »
Thanks, Michelle.
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jatrax

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Re: 6.2 V-8 vs. 6.8 V-10
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2017, 07:48:24 pm »
Did not even know there was a v-8 available so I cannot comment on that.

However, I do have the V-10 with the 6-speed.  After reading all of the horror stories about the V-10 with 5-speed "It looks at a hill and downshifts" and so on, I was a little concerned.

However, I can report I am quite happy with the V-10 with 6-speed.  It shifts about when I think it should, handles hills in a reasonable manner, works well with the speed control and with Tow/Haul on is nice to drive even in city traffic.  Generally I have Tow/Haul on anywhere except the freeway.

You do have to get used to it making noise and running at 4,000rpm but so far I'm happy.
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Michelle Dungan

Re: 6.2 V-8 vs. 6.8 V-10
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2017, 03:26:32 am »
I think I recall reading the 6.2 V-8 became available in the E-Series Cutaway in about Spring 2017.  Here's some specs.  All things being approximately equal, the weight difference between V-8 and V-10 models is about 50-100 pounds, depending on model, more than a 2nd battery and less than a hitch receiver and motorcycle carrier or snowplow.  So, ride might be affected by this decrease in weight on front end if rear axle was heavily loaded.  Here's one link with lots of specs incl turning diameter, even:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/topics/2017/2017_E-Series_Cutaway_Stripped_Chassis-Specs.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiE2eHW04PXAhUmsVQKHYiHAs8QFgh5MA4&usg=AOvVaw2es5Dbr2jq1H_N_9SQI8Gq
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: 6.2 V-8 vs. 6.8 V-10
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2017, 10:44:04 am »
Quote from: jatrax on October 21, 2017, 07:48:24 pm
Did not even know there was a v-8 available so I cannot comment on that.

However, I do have the V-10 with the 6-speed.  After reading all of the horror stories about the V-10 with 5-speed "It looks at a hill and downshifts" and so on, I was a little concerned.

However, I can report I am quite happy with the V-10 with 6-speed.  It shifts about when I think it should, handles hills in a reasonable manner, works well with the speed control and with Tow/Haul on is nice to drive even in city traffic.  Generally I have Tow/Haul on anywhere except the freeway.

You do have to get used to it making noise and running at 4,000rpm but so far I'm happy.
I also did not know of the larger V8 until this thread.  I agree 100% with jatrax about the V10 and TorqShift transmission.  Both are in our 2007 E350 chassis, though I am not sure if it is a 5 speed plus, or a true 6 speed.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 10:48:05 am by ron.dittmer »
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jatrax

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Re: 6.2 V-8 vs. 6.8 V-10
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2017, 12:06:56 pm »
Ron as best I can tell there was a change with the 2016 model year.  2015 and prior had the 5 speed and 2016 and later has the new 6 speed.  The performance curves indicate the 2016 combo provides very slightly higher power than the 2015 combo but does so at a lower rpm.  This might be why some report the 2016 / 2017 as running quieter than earlier years.

2015: Torque: 457 @ 3,250 RPM
2016: Torque: 460 @ 3,000 RPM

Whether there is a 'plus' hidden gear in the 5 speed I've no idea.  There is however some mention of a torque converter unlock mode that changes the RPM by 300-400 in each gear.  That effectively doubles the number of gears when it is in use, but there is some indication it only works when the speed control is on.  That might be what the extra gear is.  Way beyond my expertise though so don't take any of that as fact, its just what I read on the Ford brochure and elsewhere.
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: 6.2 V-8 vs. 6.8 V-10
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2017, 01:30:16 pm »
Our 2007 E350 has that "other" differential gear ratio that runs everything up front at a slower rpm.  It's hard to say if it's better or not.  At times I wished it all spun a bit faster.  Other times I am glad it spins slower.  I used to think more about it, but as the years go by, I am better at letting it all go and just accepting it's behavior under particular driving conditions.  I tend to think too much on certain things and "Gear Ratios" used to be one of them. :)
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 01:31:58 pm by ron.dittmer »
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jatrax

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Re: 6.2 V-8 vs. 6.8 V-10
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2017, 02:20:32 pm »
I try not to over think things, you can go down rabbit holes chasing things that make sense on paper but have no perceptible effect on things in the real world. :)  Think gear ratios are an argument?  Try talking to camera buffs about megapixels, and lens coatings and micro-contrast and sensor filters and on and on.  If it looks like a nice picture, I figure it's a nice picture and we shouldn't worry so much about the details.

As far as cars and engines are concerned: if it starts and drives mostly the way I think it should, I'm all good.
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: 6.2 V-8 vs. 6.8 V-10
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2017, 02:44:36 pm »
Quote from: jatrax on October 25, 2017, 02:20:32 pm
I try not to over think things, you can go down rabbit holes chasing things that make sense on paper but have no perceptible effect on things in the real world. :)  Think gear ratios are an argument?  Try talking to camera buffs about megapixels, and lens coatings and micro-contrast and sensor filters and on and on.  If it looks like a nice picture, I figure it's a nice picture and we shouldn't worry so much about the details.

As far as cars and engines are concerned: if it starts and drives mostly the way I think it should, I'm all good.
Amen brother jatrax!  But it's fun to chat over :)
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Joseph

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Re: 6.2 V-8 vs. 6.8 V-10
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2017, 08:12:32 pm »
Quote from: jatrax on October 21, 2017, 07:48:24 pm
Did not even know there was a v-8 available so I cannot comment on that.

However, I do have the V-10 with the 6-speed.  After reading all of the horror stories about the V-10 with 5-speed "It looks at a hill and downshifts" and so on, I was a little concerned.

However, I can report I am quite happy with the V-10 with 6-speed.  It shifts about when I think it should, handles hills in a reasonable manner, works well with the speed control and with Tow/Haul on is nice to drive even in city traffic.  Generally I have Tow/Haul on anywhere except the freeway.

You do have to get used to it making noise and running at 4,000rpm but so far I'm happy.


Mine is a 2011 and reference to the downshifts at the sight of a hill etc I have never experienced it. The only place I ever see it mentioned seems to be places that sell tune program kits for several hundred dollars and by those who bought them and swear to how great they are.  Could be they are all that but in real life I sure haven’t met anyone with any issue.  I really like the V 10 and to date have no complaints what so ever.
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