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2551 or 2552...Thoughts?

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gandalf42

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Re: 2551 or 2552...Thoughts?
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2017, 10:13:26 am »
I was really on the fence about jacks..liked the convenience, didn't like the weight, chance for mechanical issues, crawling under the rig to lube them, not hot on the cost. We didn't have jacks on our previous rig for the last 10 years and while we wished we had them a few times did fine most of the time.

I mentioned my continued uncertainty to Earl, and as Ron said, was told they were added after the PC is completely built so could always be added later. That made my decision easy. I left them off, and good chance we'll never add them.

Many folks use leveling out of concern for the propane refrigerator, but the 3 degree spec allows a lot of tilt without an issue..more tilt than we are comfortable with.

The one thing with a tilted RV is the head of the bed needs to be level or higher or it feels really odd.

Mike & Pat Astley,

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Wayne7

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Re: 2551 or 2552...Thoughts?
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2017, 11:16:05 am »
More excellent comments and recommendations from Jatrax, Thomas4854, and renotse...so appreciated!   One idea we had already picked up on the forum was to extend the driver side twin to 74 inches when not doing a slide (or nix the pantry if going with a slide) so it was interesting to hear that was important to others as well.

Another thought I perhaps should have mentioned earlier is that we are planning to NOT tow a vehicle.  Is the 2551/2552 nimble enough to allow us to park most places and get around without a TOAD?  I was impressed with the responsive handling of the 2552 I drove in Minneapolis given it's length and weight...but again just my first experience driving a large RV.  Our plan is to  meander across the southern U.S. spending a night here and there as we go - probably not in campgrounds or a single location for long stretches (if that caveat factors into the equation).

Looks like a slide and leveling jacks need to be strongly considered.  Please continue to add your opinions and recommendations as I'm keeping a running building list of our "ideal build" and many of your suggestions are on it.

Thanks again,

Wayne

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fandj

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Re: 2551 or 2552...Thoughts?
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2017, 11:19:15 am »
Never having a motorhome prior to the PC without leveling jacks I am probably biased.  While the cost and weight are certainly considerations but having weighed our 2552 with slide and jacks we have ample weight capacity even when fully loaded for a trip.  We camp a lot in National Forest and National Park campgrounds and always have been able to select a site that allows us to level though at times we have used almost all of the jack travel.  The times we have pulled into a site when it is raining and being able to level from the cabin is what sold me on their benefit.  Having come from a travel trailer I know all too well what it is like to level in the rain.  We travel a good bit without a toad and find it more convenient to use the Phoenix for excursions from and back to the campground than if we had to retrieve leveling blocks when leaving and level again when returning.  Also having travelled to the west coast on a two month road trip right after we picked up our PC we found most of our stops were one to three days requiring more frequent leveling than long term stays.

We have been in some campgrounds that did not require leveling and have not put the jacks down and quickly notice the difference in stability in moving through the motorhome.  I suppose if we did not have or use the jacks this change in stability would not be as noticeable.

Cost is one consideration we all face.  When we bought our Phoenix we intended to use it for the long haul and wanted it equipped for maximum useability and convenience from the "get go" so I pushed our budget realizing this could be our last camping unit.  
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 11:21:01 am by fandj »

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Wayne7

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Re: 2551 or 2552...Thoughts?
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2017, 11:25:34 am »
Ron and Mike...you both make great points on the leveling jacks.  I do like the reasoning of adding them later if they are determined to be a definate need.

Also curious what mileage folks are getting on the 2551/2552.  Seems like most are averaging 9 mpg or so.

Thanks,
Wayne

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Wayne7

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Re: 2551 or 2552...Thoughts?
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2017, 11:47:29 am »
Thanks for the comments on the leveling jacks, fandj.  Your rationale and personal experience make good sense.  I theorized that without having a tow car that the levelers would make "picking up" just that much easier - and you confirmed it.  I only wish, as Rod Dittmer quipped, that they occasionally gave them away FREE!

All of the comments are greatly appreciated and speak volumes to the helpfulness of PC owners...what a blessing!

Wayne

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gandalf42

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Re: 2551 or 2552...Thoughts?
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2017, 12:27:25 pm »
We camp a lot in National Forest and National Park campgrounds and always have been able to select a site that allows us to level though at times we have used almost all of the jack travel.  The times we have pulled into a site when it is raining and being able to level from the cabin is what sold me on their benefit.  Having come from a travel trailer I know all too well what it is like to level in the rain.  We travel a good bit without a toad and find it more convenient to use the Phoenix for excursions from and back to the campground than if we had to retrieve leveling blocks when leaving and level again when returning.  Also having travelled to the west coast on a two month road trip right after we picked up our PC we found most of our stops were one to three days requiring more frequent leveling than long term stays.

Great points! Ugh! I hate doing stuff in the rain!  >( I am big on convenience myself. When we first got the Born Free, which didn't have jacks, I leveled with blocks at each stop. Not fun to me! I soon stopped leveling and found we did just fine as long as we could tolerate some tilt.

I would totally agree, if you want or need to level at each stop..get jacks! You be happy you did. I would do the same.

It's only because we found (or adapted) that we didn't need to be totally level all the time that it was a question for us.
Mike & Pat Astley,

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jatrax

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Re: 2551 or 2552...Thoughts?
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2017, 12:43:15 pm »
Just an additional comment on the jacks:  the ones installed by PC are perhaps better called 'levelers' not jacks like are used on big diesel class A's.  They are designed to level the coach but NOT lift the wheels off the ground.  In fact lifting the rear wheels off the ground is dangerous as that removes the parking braking / transmission from holding the coach.  The jacks will rotate for storage so worse case it might fall off the jacks and then stop but I suspect that would be an experience I would not want.  I'll reiterate that I would not want a coach without them, both for the ease of setup and breakdown and also for the added stability when walking around in the coach when parked.  YMMV.  

Wayne asked about not traveling with a tow car and with my limited experience I will say it is certainly possible.  At first driving the 2552 seems awkward but with a little experience you can easily park it most places.  It takes up two full parking spots end to end.  So Walmart, grocery store, mall whatever I just pull in a spot and drive through to the second, the coach fits nicely.  I've parked along the road and on city streets and I'm not very experienced so it can be done.

The compressor refrigerator is working very well for us.  Power draw is about 30 amp Hours per day, so we can easily boondock for 48 hours without the generator.  The solar adds enough that we could probably extend that some but I'll need more experience before I can give a definitive answer on that.  

Absorption refrigerators have been around for a very long time and are 'tried and true', except for the issues the last few years.  As I understand this when they were made in the US things were fine, but when sourced overseas they had some serious problems including fires.  It appears those issues have been resolved but it was enough to make me want to try something else.  As to why they are still the standard in RV's I suspect it is mostly inertia.  They work, people know what to expect and the factory knows how to install them.  So why take a risk on something new?  That is changing as more and more larger units are coming with residential style units.  The Norcold DE 0061 I have is a marine unit so designed to be very efficient and used when in motion.  So far I like it and would recommend it.  Note however, that there needs to be a change in the installation if you go that route.  

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Two Hams in a Can

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Re: 2551 or 2552...Thoughts?
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2017, 02:27:37 pm »
We loved our HWH air leveling system on our former RV home, a 40 ft Foretravel Class A.  However, when we downsized to our 2012 2400 Sprinter, the added weight of levelers on this little guy would severely limit the necessary things we needed to carry (like my 100lb "cripple cart"). So, besides having a bag of double wide leveling blocks for extreme leveling correction, we also carry three of these-two for the duallys and one for the front for the average leveling needs. https://www.amazon.com/Andersen-Hitches-3604-Camper-Leveler/dp/B001GC2LVM  Ease of use doesn't even begin to describe the situation. . .roll on, roll off.  Works for us.    ;)
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 02:32:41 pm by Two Hams in a Can »
Jeff and Suzanne traveling with the Cocker Spaniel sisters, Scout & Sydney in Fawkes the Phoenix 
"What happens in vagueness stays in vagueness"

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Ron Dittmer

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Re: 2551 or 2552...Thoughts?
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2017, 04:13:42 pm »
THIAC,

Those Andersen Roll-on/off things....is there enough clearance?  Our tail pipe is right behind our right-rear wheel.  Then add the mudflaps and metal supports for them and I can't see how these will work without getting tangled up in something.  Please share how they clear your PC-related obstacles.

They sure seem extremely easy to use.  I would buy a set but fear I will damage our PC with them.
Ron (& Irene) Dittmer

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ron-n-toni

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Re: 2551 or 2552...Thoughts?
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2017, 06:54:51 pm »
Yep. We are picking up our 2552X (extended) August 2nd. Will return to Pennsylvania for several weeks and then head toward Oregon for the rally. We intend to use Ron Dittmars 2-2-2 method of travel. Our days of 4-5 hundred miles a day are gone for good.

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Two Hams in a Can

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Re: 2551 or 2552...Thoughts?
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2017, 08:42:08 am »
THIAC,

Those Andersen Roll-on/off things....is there enough clearance?  Our tail pipe is right behind our right-rear wheel.  Then add the mudflaps and metal supports for them and I can't see how these will work without getting tangled up in something.  Please share how they clear your PC-related obstacles.

They sure seem extremely easy to use.  I would buy a set but fear I will damage our PC with them.
There is no clearance issues at all.  As you approach the Andersons either backing or going forward, as the tire rolls on the small tapered end, the PC begins to lift.  The taller end never extends any higher than the lower third of the tire.  There is no way to damage the PC except if you don't put one under each of the rear duallys. For rougher sites where the Andersons aren't as effective, we have both a set of Lynx Levelers as well as these https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00T36J7ZQ/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=IITUGIIGZ9VJR&colid=2W819KA67UKPN  We carry the Lynx and Andersons in a tote bag that sits near the PC door while traveling.  When we arrive, of course all the levelers are first things off.    :)(:
Jeff and Suzanne traveling with the Cocker Spaniel sisters, Scout & Sydney in Fawkes the Phoenix 
"What happens in vagueness stays in vagueness"

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Ron Dittmer

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Re: 2551 or 2552...Thoughts?
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2017, 11:10:37 am »
THIAC,

Those Andersen Roll-on/off things....is there enough clearance?  Our tail pipe is right behind our right-rear wheel.  Then add the mudflaps and metal supports for them and I can't see how these will work without getting tangled up in something.  Please share how they clear your PC-related obstacles.

They sure seem extremely easy to use.  I would buy a set but fear I will damage our PC with them.
There is no clearance issues at all.  As you approach the Andersons either backing or going forward, as the tire rolls on the small tapered end, the PC begins to lift.  The taller end never extends any higher than the lower third of the tire.  There is no way to damage the PC except if you don't put one under each of the rear duallys. For rougher sites where the Andersons aren't as effective, we have both a set of Lynx Levelers as well as these https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00T36J7ZQ/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=IITUGIIGZ9VJR&colid=2W819KA67UKPN  We carry the Lynx and Andersons in a tote bag that sits near the PC door while traveling.  When we arrive, of course all the levelers are first things off.    :)(:
Thanks for your report.  Maybe I will buy a pair and give them a try.  They sure seam easy to work.
Ron (& Irene) Dittmer

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ron-n-toni

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Re: 2551 or 2552...Thoughts?
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2017, 07:19:03 pm »
OK, just to keep the jacks/no jacks debate going. As I mentioned previously, We were starting a trip to Florida on Dec 26th and it was 6 below zero. Woke up in the morning with a flat tire. Coach net contacted a service guy, waited and waited.  :help Several hours of waiting, I broke the lug nuts, used to HWH jacks (or levelers) raised the tire off the ground, changed the tire and drove off. No laying under the Rv in the snow placing the jack, pumping it up, and then back under to let it down. Just push the button.  :-D

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Wayne7

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Re: 2551 or 2552...Thoughts?
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2017, 09:23:03 pm »
Thanks Ron-n-Toni.  You have clearly identified another benefit - at least in a pinch - in favor of the levelers.  Glad it worked out safely for you!

Since I last posted, I thought a call was in order to Stuart's Service who installs the levelers for Phoenix Cruiser.  I spoke with Chuck Stuart and he said the levelers have a strong track record and the company (or levelers?) have been in existence for 50 years.  They have a one year warranty, weigh between 125 and 150 pounds for all components (not bad), and the only maintenance needed is to cycle them up and down at least once a month to lubricate the seals.  He was great to talk with - no sales pitch just common sense factors on the build quality and usefulness of the levelers.  He also said how much he enjoys dealing with PC owners as they love their coaches.  He, too, is impressed with the build quality of Phoenix Cruisers.  Oh, and by the way, it is a bit less expensive to have the levelers installed during your original purchase rather than waiting until later...in case that makes a difference.

Thanks again for all the ideas and opinions...so helpful.

Wayne

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TomHanlon

Re: 2551 or 2552...Thoughts?
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2017, 06:12:28 am »
Did you ask him about changing to automatic leveler over the standard PC has installed? Have you asked the same question of Earl?