Length and Width Restrictions

Length restrictions for single or towed combination rigs have come up before but here's a few more examples.  Pity there's not a uniform standard for regulations and signage across different jurisdictions to reduce confusion when conditions warrant something non-standard.  The various combinations of individual vehicle length, combination length (tow vehicle and vehicle or trailer being towed), basic width of either, or total width incuding mirrors all combine to determine what sort of RV you want to buy or where you can go after you have one. 

The week before Thanksgiving, we again joined a group of friends at Furnace Creek campground in Death Valley National Park who either tow SUVs (mostly Jeeps) behind motorhomes or still drive them and tent camp like we still do with our '03 Jeep Rubicon.  Access to this and all major campgrounds in the park is pretty much unrestricted, though flatlanders will be alarmed by the steep mountain grades if approaching from the west.  Just downshift when needed and, anywhere in park, watch for bicyclists or stopped vehicles.  But, if you want to see Dante's View (well worth it), a sign states, "LENGTH RESTRICTION, 25 ft. Maximum Length, No Buses / RV's / Vehicle Combinations", as the parking lot at the view is small.  I would imagine a true Class B would be OK despite the "No RV's" wording but might depend upon the level of literalism of someone with a citation booklet, and a short Class B+ (Class C) like a PC would probably not be acceptable due to width.  So, use your toad (towed?) or get a ride.  Another restriction is on the road to Wildrose Campground on the western side of park.  Due to sharp curves combined with narrow width pavement and no shoulder, signs state that the 25 foot length limit is for the total length of your combination, meaning a trailer is OK but it would have to be a short trailer behind a Jeep or small car, or a PC no longer than a 2351 or 2400 and not towing anything.  I did call once and ask whether a 26 ft. motorhome would be cited and while it sounded as though no one is regularly patrolling with a tape measure there, should a collision occur, I'm sure there'd be legal repercussions.  Up the steep, rough gravel road east of the charcoal kilns (east of Wildrose) and towards Mahogany Flats campground, no towing is allowed due to the road being too narrow in places to risk two vehicles towing meeting each other and one having to back up (uphill has right-of-way).  Sportsmobiles, Provan Tigers, and a few campers are all you'd find up there, with all of them having contents shaken about.

A trip to Kings Canyon and Sequoia National Parks will show you various length restrictions (I think 22 and 24 feet), and some side roads also set rather narrow limits based upon width including mirrors.  Some maximum lengths are recommendations, others are prohibitions, and some vary seasonally, based on traffic projections.  "Going to the Sun" highway in Glacier National Park must also be studied before a trip.  Some tunnels in Yosemite would be a worry for certain RVs.  Zion NP tunnels are now tightly controlled.

So, before we buy and before we go, a bit of online review of National Park Service maps and guidance is always a must.

If anyone has specific questions about Death Valley, ask, and I'll start another thread in the "Adventure Anywhere" part of the forum.

 "Going to the Sun" highway in Glacier National Park must also be studied before a trip.

We were in Glacier in 2013.  Our PC-2350 was officially too long for the Going To The Sun road.  I think the limit is officially 22 feet, so model 2100 would be fine.  Given there are large shuttle buses running to the top of the pass from the east, I believe the limit is related to parking at the top, not the actual road itself from the east.  From the west to the top of the pass, the shuttle buses are smaller so just maybe the hair-pin turns in the road on that side are an issue with a vehicle over 22 feet.  As I recall, the width of the entire 2 lane road on either side of the pass seemed just fine for a PC.  It must be all about the hairpin turns.

I have learned over the years that lenght, width and height restrictions are there for a reason.   I obey them, and darn if I have never had a problem myself, but sure have seen folks who thought those signs didn't apply to them.   Darn if many of them weren't trying to back up, turn around or just plain run off the road.

Living and traveling in the Rocky Mountains there are lots of length restrictions. One of the reasons we wanted to stay small with our PC 2100. We did do the Going to the Sun road in Glacier and had no problem...except the driver couldn't enjoy the views.  Independence Pass just east of Aspen is another interesting road we have done in the 2100 and many more times in a car. It goes down to one lane with hairpin turns. Have seen many a stuck RV and that is when the citation happens. Many of our national forest and BLM campgrounds have length restrictions for good reason as well. I most often see the RV America rentals driven by foreign drivers wedge somewhere they do not belong. Those signs are there for a reason and we abide by them. At times when the only notation is "No RVs" we inquire and frequently are told it would not be a problem for the 2100 and proceed without a hitch. I think some of those signs just paint with a broad brush.

RheaNL, I have had a lot of afternoons of entertainment in the Rockies watching the European tourists with the rental Class Cs.  I admire their sense of adventure.  I wouldn't think of flying to an unknown land and renting something probably twice as long as anything I have ever driven!!  The Germans have a long, historical love for the American West that comes from the publication of "dime novels" concerning western heroes that were first published in Germany in the 1870s.   They come over to check out the beauty.  Many fly in to Canada or the northern midwest US cities, pick up a RV and head down into the Wild West.

I laughed when I read your post.  Last year we watched a group of four couples in about a 30 foot C trying to back into a NF campground campsite that would be barely OK with my PC 2350 but not anything much longer.  I cannot imagine them on Independence Pass.  Of course, this flatlander ain't gonna take his 2350 across there either

I sometimes get a little tight on a road or campsite and my wife reminds me of the benefits of our 1996 Dodge Roadtrek 190 we had from 1996 to 2002!

Paul

This topic is bringing back wonderful memories of driving the Road to the Sun,  through all the arches on Needles Hwy. in Custer SP, driving The Million Dollar Hwy.,  our trip through Death Valley, and spending 2 1/2 months in Alaska. Those trips and many more were all in our LTV Class B.   We planned ahead checking all restrictions and we were within the limits everywhere we traveled.   We too, have seen folks trying to go where they shouldn't and paying the consequences.

Even though we have the smallest PC 2100 there are some places we probably wouldn't want to take it.   The length would not be a problem, just not sure about the height and width. 

Paul, you have mentioned your experiences in your Bs and thinking of owning one, again.   I am right there with you.

Gail

Paul's wife and Gail remind me of my wife Irene.  

Every time we run into a situation where our 2350 with Jeep in-tow is too long and limiting, Irene says that she wished we never sold our little Toyota Mirage of which my typical response is...

Irene always remembers what was good about that little RV, forgetting everything that it lacked which was just about everything.
- no full time bed that was big enough to actually use
- no usable dinette (ended up being our full time bed)
- bed was rediculously small and uncomfortable (the 2350 bed is wonderful by comparison)
- no stove
- no fridge
- no furnace
- no air conditioning (no roof and no chassis)
- no toilet
- no practical sink
- no shower
- no hot water
- no TV
- no screen door
- no awning

Ron,  

We had all of the things you mentioned not having.  However, we did have to push a button, as we do now, to make our couch into a very comfortable 60"x80" bed.  

Like you, I would not be comfortable without having all the things you mentioned.

Michelle,

I will continue to follow your posts as to what type of vehicle best suits your travel style.   You always bring interesting and helpful information to this forum.

Gail

At this time in our lives, the 2350 is perfect.  We tend to spend a lot of time in one place and use our Jeep Trailhawk to run around.  With the back seat down we back that baby full of camping gear, food, all kinds of stuff and are good for two weeks in one spot in our 2350 as long as we manage our black tank very carefully.  This is normally in the NF in the summer and you are welcome to drip your gray water and return it to the earth.   We pump water up into the PC tank from an 8 gallon wheeled container we use to bring it from some source to the RV.  Like I said, the 2350 is fine for most tight spots camping.

We had everything on Ron's list in our Roadtrek 210P and we had more storage space than in our 2350, believe it or not.  On a rainy two or three days, a B can get pretty small. And a wet bath can get pretty tiresome!  So, the 2350 is great for us now. 

In a year or two, I suspect we will sell the 2350 and buy a new B and spend more time touring and less camping.  We had a little Intervec Horizon B that was 17 plus feet long and it was super to just get anywhere and tour.  Intervec was the predecessor to Phoenix Cruiser, some of the same folks.  I almost bought one to restore earlier this year but it was just more project than I have time to take on right now. 

I think rving (which we have been doing for almost 35 years) is a lot of fun when you stay flexible and know your needs and types of travel change over the year. 

Paul   

We've only really had an issue once and it was because of the placement of that road restriction sign and not our willingness to follow them. We drove the Blue Ridge parkway just after the government closed a bit back. Since the Federal campgrounds on the parkway were closed, we had to find our way off to a private campground. We used AllStays, found a campground, verified space and headed off the exit... only to find a road restriction sign AT THE END OF THE EXIT RAMP... We couldn't back back onto the parkway and we couldn't take the road to the left (can't remember why). There was no ramp back on to the parkway so we went down the restricted road. There were a few seriously tight switchbacks and our 2552 with Subaru trailing behind was definitely stretching from the drop off, over the yellow line and nearly brushing the inside wall of the road. I leaned out the window to tell John when the tire was getting close to going over the edge. As we angled down toward one particularly tight turn, we stopped and waited and watched a semi truck come close to jackknifing on the turn. Once he cleared, we gave it a go and mentally noted we would never take that exit again (no, I don't remember which one, which makes it hard to hold true to that promise) AND we both blew out a few choice words for the guy that decided that restriction sign should be a couple hundred feet past the point of no return. I suspect the guy in the semi had done the same.

Any other close calls were due to creative directions from the GPS. Ghost roads... on the maps, on the GPS, invisible to us. 

Holly,

I think we all can identify with the "creative directions"  from that voice on the GPS and find ourselves puzzled at where we've been led.   I hope you all talk back to her or him like Hal and I do.

Gail, thanks, and the same back to you and many others.  Who knows?  For where we like to go, if we felt we could continue to climb into the cabover bed of a Provan Tiger Bengal or certain popup slide-in campers, or the overhead bed of a Sportsmobile for another decade, anything's possible.  And those all meet any vehicle length limits.

I forgot to mention that we did consider the length of the 2552 and some of the road restrictions out west. While we know we can't go on ALL the roads, it is our intent to drop the tow vehicle and drive separately on a some of them that don't allow trailers or that have 30' restrictions. Some of those restrictions only apply to a short section of road so we'll unhook, drive separate, and hook back up.