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A couple of hot water heater questions

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JJCruiser

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A couple of hot water heater questions
« on: April 08, 2016, 08:04:02 pm »
While I have had my 2007 2350 for a few years now, I still have a couple of questions related to my hot water heater that I know members of this forum would know the answers. 

The first, is there any way to adjust the temperature on the hot water heater?  Our hot water is very hot by the time the burner turns off. 

The second, when my hot water heater runs I hear the repeated clicking of the piezo ignitor.  I would have thought the ignitor would have stopped once the burner was lit.  Or is the consistent clicking of the ignitor a safety feature to help ensure the burner stays lit?

Thanks,

JJ
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: A couple of hot water heater questions
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2016, 08:52:03 pm »
We own the same model year as you.  My quick answer is...

1) I don't know if there is a way to adjust the temperature.....I wonder too.  Something tells me we might be able to control it behind the wooden panel inside the rig, but it's been too long since I was behind it.

2) Once I hear the flame, the igniter stops clicking.

This is a dumb comment but I need to say it anyway because I was the dummy.  It is easy to forget the tank was drained during preparation for storage.  It is especially concerning when plugged in during storage.  Be certain the HW switch under the kitchen counter is turned off when plugged in during storage, and the tank is filled with water before firing it up using either electric or gas.  There is 1/2 gallon of water in the tank after being drained as a safeguard, but it's not fail-safe.

I know all this because around 2009, I believe I burned up my 110V heating element this way.  When replacing the 110V element, with the tank drained, I removed the element and out came about 1/2 gallon of more water.  I asked the maker of the HW heater and they explained it to me, the 1/2 gallon is to protect the element when one forgets.  They also said it was okay to freeze which was another surprise.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 09:04:12 pm by ron.dittmer »
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JJCruiser

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Re: A couple of hot water heater questions
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2016, 09:32:08 pm »
Thanks Ron.  Do I understand you correctly?  You can operate your hot water heater on propane or electric???  Either we have different hot water heaters or I don't know how to operate ours on electric.  I am curious how you select between propane or 110V electric?  We have a simple toggle switch just below the countertop that we flip on when we want hot water.  The toggle switch lights up red for maybe a second or two and the light turns off once the burner ignites.  Even though our RVs are the same model and model year, maybe the factory offered two different hot water heater options.  It would be great to have the option to run off electric. 

Thanks again,

JJ
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: A couple of hot water heater questions
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2016, 09:38:40 pm »
JJ,

Here is a picture of our hot water control panel on our 2007 2350.  Does yours look the same?  If not, maybe you have a propane-only model.  I think a third model was offered where the tank water gets heated up from the main Ford V10 engine, I assume hot anti-freeze piping meanders around inside, heating the water that way, though I am not certain of it.

The left side lightening bolt symbol is the switch for 110V electric.  The right side flame symbol is for propane operation.  It is conceivable that we could run off both electric and propane at the same time for a faster heat-up.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 09:50:00 pm by ron.dittmer »
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Re: A couple of hot water heater questions
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2016, 10:08:52 pm »
Ron
Your picture and description helps a lot.  Based on that we must have a propane-only model. We just have one simple lighted rocker switch to turn on or off.  Definitely something I will add to the list of wants for our next PC. 

Based on your earlier answer, I do wonder why my piezo igniter does not stop clicking once the burner has ignited.  I just thought it might be a safety feature if the burner happened to blow out for a brief second, it would quickly re-ignite before any gases built up.  With this, however, I would expect the piezo ignitor life would be limited with it clicking all the time.  We do only run our hot water heater when we really need it, typically just a couple times a day.  The water heats up real fast and stays hot for quite a while.  Our limited use should help on the life of the ignitor. 

Thanks again,

JJ
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: A couple of hot water heater questions
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2016, 10:44:49 pm »
There might be an easy fix for that.  Hopefully someone with experience knows what to do.  Something inside me feels maybe a thermal couple needs cleaning.  Open the main panel outside and inspect everything.  Look for loose or corroded connections and spiderwebs.  Clean anything questionable..... with the RV kill switch activated.
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Doneworking

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Re: A couple of hot water heater questions
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2016, 10:49:25 pm »
JJ, I had a hot water tank a few years ago (propane only) that made water simply to hot to be comfortable or safe.   I seem to recall it was a Suburban brand.  I called them and they sent me another thermostat....free!   This was on our 2007 Roadtrek we owned prior to the PC.  The thermostat screwed into the tank on the exposed front side and had a couple of wires plugged into it as I recall.  In any event, it lowered the temp 25 degrees or so, which was perfect.  It must have been a common problem back then because they immediately knew and were sympathetic to my problem.    So, your problem may be about the same and if so I would explore getting a new thermostat with a lower set point. 

Paul 
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Joe R

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Re: A couple of hot water heater questions
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2016, 12:55:49 pm »
I have the Atwood service manual and wish I knew how to upload here. As for the water temp. nowadays most home water heaters are set at 120 degrees or lower for energy conservancy. The Atwood heater has a fixed thermostat set at 140 degrees. And a over temp safety, set at 180.  What you should do is get a cooking thermometer and check the water temp. If it checks out between 115 to 140 the water heater is maintaining the water within the operating range. You may just be used to a lower temperature that your house has. Atwood does have a adjustable thermo. that can be set from 110 to 150. When you measure the temperature of the water, and if it is above 140. The first thing to look for is that the thermostats are in contact with the water tank. They need to be touching the metal to get a accurate temperature. So if the thermostat is in the right place and the water temp is above 140, you need a new thermo.
As for the sparker system there are some that are continuous spark. And nowadays to achieve more energy efficiency some modules will shut off the spark after sensing a flame. I am not sure if the spark stops after the burner lights. Once I hear the burning flame I don't give it much thought because its working.
Sorry for the long drawn out explanation I hope this helps you.
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JJCruiser

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Re: A couple of hot water heater questions
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2016, 08:14:36 pm »
Thanks to everyone for the helpful advice!   I checked our water heater and it is an Atwood G6A-8E.  After doing some checking I have confirmed that this is a propane only 6 Gallon Electronic ignite water heater.  I really like your idea Joe of checking the temperature of the water with a cooking thermometer.  I will do that the next time we have the unit on.  We did check the temperature of the hot water in our house, and sure enough it is around 125 degrees.  I think you are correct, we are used to a lower temperature.  So maybe our RV's water heater is just fine.  We will know for sure once we check it with the thermometer.  I was able to find the adjustable thermostat on the web.  Found one for $28 that is compatable with our water heater.  I think I am going to give that a try.

I really appreciate all the great help from this forum!

JJ

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2 Frazzled

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Re: A couple of hot water heater questions
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2016, 08:18:13 pm »
Having the water heater temp set higher in the RV gives you more bang for your buck. I could probably shower at close to your 125 degree home water temperature. If the water is hotter, you mix in more cold and use less hot; which works best with a smaller water tank.
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Joe R

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Re: A couple of hot water heater questions
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2016, 09:51:10 pm »
2 frazzeled is correct since we only have a 6 gallon tank to work with. Compared to the average 40 gallon tank you would mix more cold water with the hot. which would make the 6 gallons last longer.
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: A couple of hot water heater questions
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2016, 12:39:20 am »
I also agree that hotter water will go farther when diluting with cold water.  It also stays hot longer after you turn off the heat.  Our hot water is available for nearly an entire day after turning off the heater to it.

The hot water discussion brings up a related topic......consistent water pressure for consistent water temperature, which is nice when showering.  I installed on an accumulator tank a year after we bought our PC and it serves us real well.  You might consider installing one, assuming you don't already have one.

I think THIS ONE is the best out there as long as you have the room for it.  The one I installed is the same size and works great, but that stainless steel one has nice feet and offers a place to mount the pump, ideal in our 2350.

Here is my make-shift installation.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2016, 12:44:57 am by ron.dittmer »
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Re: A couple of hot water heater questions
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2016, 06:51:23 am »

Yes, I fully agree having the temperature hotter will make the 6 gallons last longer.  Just trying to make sure the temperature is safe for our daughter.  At home, all of our faucets have a single lever which makes it easy to get a good mix of hot and cold right from the start.  Its a bit more tricky with the shower faucet in our RV.   I also try at home to have the water heater as low as possible to conserve energy cost, but high enough to not run out of hot water.  Since we have a natural gas hot water heater, this is easily adjusted.  Adding the adjustable thermostat to the RV would allow me to dial the temperature to what works for us.  But my main objective is making sure the water is not too hot.  This discussion made me curious of what is recommended for hot water temperature.  I copied below what I learned . . . thought you might be interested. 

As always, thank you for your help!

JJ
 

TIME/TEMPERATURE RELATIONSHIPS IN SCALDS*
Temperature   Time to Produce Serious Burns
120°F   More than 5 minutes
125°F   1- 1/2 to 2 Minutes
130°F   About 30 Seconds
135°F   About 10 Seconds
140°F   Less than 5 Seconds
145°F   Less than 3 Seconds
150°F   About 1-1/2 Seconds
155°F   About 1 Second
160°F+   Instantaneously
*Table Courtesy of Shiners Burn Institute


Temperature Guidelines
The following are guidelines for common activities using hot water.
Hand Washing: 110°F - 115°F
Showers: 110°F - 115°F
Dishwasher rinse: 130°F – 140°F
Some models have build-in booster heaters that allow the water heater to be set at 110°F - 115°F.
New liquid soaps for automatic dishwashers are designed to work well at lower temperatures.
Experiment with the water temperature at the dishwasher and choose the most economical setting.
Laundry: 110°F - 120°F
With today’s detergents, most clothes can be effectively cleaned in either warm or cold water. Washing clothes in warm or cold-water will not only save energy, but will also prevent premature wear and fading of fabrics.
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TomHanlon

Re: A couple of hot water heater questions
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2016, 07:35:05 am »
JJ that is a very interesting and useful post. Thank you. tymote
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Re: A couple of hot water heater questions
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2016, 08:38:09 pm »
Water too hot is a serious safety issue but I am also concerned about the constant cycling of the igniter. That should not be happening. However, maybe the two problems are related; a bad thermostat causing the overheating and the igniter cycling. Please tell us what the solution was when you get it all fixed.

Thanks.
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