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Sound proofing/Undercoating

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ron-n-toni

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Sound proofing/Undercoating
« on: October 26, 2015, 03:39:37 pm »
Has anyone had their new unit sound proofed. Kyle stated it was like a bed liner spray and does a lot to quiet road noise. Also acts like an undercoater. $1000. for a 2351 on a E450 chassis. Think its worth it ?????

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RichardP

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Re: Sound proofing/Undercoating
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2015, 04:57:20 pm »
We got that "ad" too, and I chose not to do it.  No real reason other than I have not seen a pressing need for it on our vehicles of the past.  I do think the Safe-T-Plus steering control will be helpful and we are having that installed.  We didn't do that on our 3100, and if we had kept it we probably would have gotten around to that.  While we track pretty good, I do feel it when the 18 wheelers pass us on the freeway.  Others may have different opinions on the undercoating, and I would respect their views.  Glad to hear delivery has been moved up.

Richard

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JimInVA

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Re: Sound proofing/Undercoating
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2015, 05:09:28 pm »
I'm leaning towards a very similar setup to you, ron-n-toni.  Because I would anticipate time on the beach (in the salt and sand), I would probably consider this as a worthwhile add-on... particularly for the additional protection against corrosion that I think it could bring.  As far as road noise, I haven't a clue as to whether or not that is a problem.  For myself, I'd probably have some David Gilmour or Joe Bonamassa playing loud enough to drown out any other sounds.

Jim

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palmettorose

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Re: Sound proofing/Undercoating
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2015, 06:45:36 pm »
we considered having it done on our 2910D but decided not to as we do not live in an area that salts the roads and we do not camp near the beach. i did not see how the process could reduce noise that much. no regrets so far.

Mike

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Bob Mahon

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Re: Sound proofing/Undercoating
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2015, 09:20:39 pm »
I would definitely NOT do it.
There will be a space between the coating and metal chassis that will trap water, leading to corrosion (just like it did in the 'old days' when the dealership sold 'undercoating' on new vehicles).
This is not advice, just an observation.

Besides, after owning numerous motorhomes other than our 3 PC units, I've not really noticed road noise.
Carry on, regardless..................
"In God we trust" to save our country and bring our troops safely home.

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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Sound proofing/Undercoating
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2015, 09:35:00 pm »
I totally agree with Bob Mahon.  I would NEVER have it done.  We had Z-Bart done on our first motor home when new in 1983 and that did more harm than good.  After 4 years of warranty visits I gave up.  The product dries & cracks and turns into potato chips, then the contaminants and moisture gets trapped in the pockets.  Adding all the holes they drilled into the body of the chassis made things worse yet.  I won't get into the mess of it all.  I hated touching anything on the underside of the rig.

On PCs, the underside of the motorhome is a corrugated "fluted" plastic material.  Undercoating on that material could get heavy and cause that protective plastic barrier to sag.

I feel the best thing you can do for your undercarriage after the salty conditions are past you, is to rinse it with fresh water from a garden hose with a common spray nozzle.  The salt rinses off immediately.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2015, 09:37:42 pm by ron.dittmer »
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TomHanlon

Re: Sound proofing/Undercoating
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2015, 06:47:20 am »
I agree with both Bob and Ron, save the money for better things. Ron's point about the under side of the coach being plastic is 100% on.  2o2

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ragoodsp

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Re: Sound proofing/Undercoating
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2015, 08:34:11 am »
Folks:

Like others have said I would skip the spray on aftermarket for I do not think there would be significant sound proofing results to warrant the cost.  I will say I think PC could do more to silence cab noise, and that would begin with placing sound proofing mat under the cab carpet.  One of these days I do think I will take everything out of the cab area and put some sound mat down that would also take care of the heat coming thru the floor.  The door panels could stand to have some sound mat as well.   That is what I would spend the $1000 bucks on!   As far as the undercarriage goes I spray every possible metal surface twice per year with Fluid Film a lanolin based corrosion inhibitor (there are many similar products out there).   I can honestly say I do not have one bit of rust and I have had other coaches that I have not used FF on and after three years they have extensive rust.  I was turned on to the Fluid Film product by  individuals at the NH Dept of Public Works who use the product a lot on their salt trucks and they swear by the product.  Thanks, Ron
Ron Goodspeed

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ron-n-toni

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Re: Sound proofing/Undercoating
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2015, 04:11:01 pm »
OK, OK. So what? A thousand dollar party somewhere???

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JimInVA

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Re: Sound proofing/Undercoating
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2015, 06:51:28 pm »
It would seem that your question and the lessons learned were of value to many of us.  Sometimes, the sharing of knowledge can have consequences that are priceless.  That having been said, the idea of a party is a great one.  Personally, I'm looking forward to you getting your PC and all of the pictures and stories that will accompany its delivery and beyond...

Jim

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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Sound proofing/Undercoating
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2015, 08:08:26 am »
OK, OK. So what? A thousand dollar party somewhere???
I love it.  Let's do it!  Where do I show up?  :)

I like Ron's (ragoodsp) spray product idea.

On our first motor home, I used to spray down the engine compartment with a can of WD-40 in the late fall for the first 5 years to keep things from rusting.  Back then at our first house, the rig was parked outside on the street.  That did so much better than the Z-Bart sprayed elsewhere.  But I do recommend using what Ron suggested, not WD-40.

For fun, here is the engine bay of our first motor home.  I took the picture when putting it up for sale.  The rig was 24 yeas old at the time.

Now don't get any ideas here.  I don't recommend spraying your PC engine bay with anything.  I had a different situation, simple mechanics, easy access and good air circulation, no heat by comparison.  You don't want to burn up your PC.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 08:19:38 am by ron.dittmer »
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Kyle_Phoenix_Cruiser

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Re: Sound proofing/Undercoating
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2015, 10:11:24 am »
Hi everybody!  I really hesitate to chime in at all, I choose not to be on the forum leading discussions because *YOU GUYS* really do a wonderful job promoting the Phoenix Cruiser product for us.   tymote 

I'm here to clarify:  The underbody spray will not cause/promote rusting by trapping in water and it cannot cause the underbelly to sag.  If you do not want them, no problem  2o2  However, if you do want them, rest-easy knowing they will work as advertised without causing a problem for your coach.  I'm not upset (these are common questions), but I need to set the record straight!  Ron & Tom know they're welcome at my campfire anytime!!  kumbaya

1.  The sound deadening spray is similar to a truck bed liner (it's made by Rhino-liners) - it's a thick spray-on (non-porous) undercoating with rubber elements in it.  The spray does not cause rust by trapping in water, in fact the product must be applied to a clean and dry surface as it is water soluble until it sets.  (Much like a latex paint that can be cleaned up with water until/unless it has cured).  As a secondary measure, it does help prevent rust by keeping the elements off the chassis frame.  At the bottom of this post I will include a statement from Ziebart on their frequently asked questions page.  There is also a rust-preventing spray that can be installed, it's a different product that neutralizes oxidation.  Ron posted that in 1983 he had a Ziebart application that did more harm that good.  In more recent years I have had a lot of folks who have been very happy with the Ziebart products heartshower

2.  There is no risk of a sagging underbelly with a Phoenix Cruiser motor home (whether you choose the undercoating, or whether you skip it).  Every square inch of the corrugated plastic is glued directly to the subfloor structure in a process called lamination.  Our floor is laminated in the following order (from bottom to top): corrugated plastic underbelly / layer of glue / steel frame with foam insulation / layer of glue / exterior grade plywood.  The entire package is vacuum bonded together so that the glue is spread evenly over the entire surface.  The great news is nothing can make the underbelly sag - Ever!  !:)!    (Sagging underbellies are common on travel trailers and fifth wheels where the same corrugated plastic material is not laminated, but instead screwed into the bottom of the frame)

Statement from Ziebart:
  • DOES UNDERCOATING TRAP MOISTURE INSIDE ?
    Absolutely not. Undercoating cannot trap moisture between itself and the metal
    any more than the paint on the outside of the vehicle can trap moisture under itself. It
    simply can't happen. What we have seen sometimes is that a vehicle will start to rust,
    someone will then spray undercoating over the rust, then sometime later the
    undercoating falls off, and someone who sees that may interpret it as a failure of the 
    undercoating. Body shops see this very often when they're doing rust repair and they
    incorrectly interpret this as the undercoating caused the rust. The fact is,
    undercoating should not have been applied to existing rust as a way of covering up
    the rust damage. 
Kyle Herschberger
Business Manager - Phoenix USA
kyle@phoenixcruiser.com

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TomHanlon

Re: Sound proofing/Undercoating
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2015, 12:44:51 pm »
Thanks for jumping in here Kyle. You are welcome to set me straight anytime. My wife does it all the time. >(

I still don't understand the benefit of spraying under the plastic floor. I can't see where that light spray would make any difference in sound and the floor can't rust anyway. Please help me understand.

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Kyle_Phoenix_Cruiser

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Re: Sound proofing/Undercoating
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2015, 12:54:54 pm »
 tymote I appreciate the good vibes Tom - you know I've got nothing but love for you man  heartshower okay, maybe not like that haha

The sound deadening spray is applied primarily to the metal chassis - it greatly reduces the pinging and other noises caused by rocks and/or road debris hitting the metal chassis.  It is not specifically applied to the plastic portion of the underbelly, though some spray certainly will be on there as well.

If I were "choosing between" the anti-rust undercoating and the noise deadening spray I'd choose the noise spray because you get a two-fer (noise deadening and some rust aversion as well).

Hope that helps!
Kyle Herschberger
Business Manager - Phoenix USA
kyle@phoenixcruiser.com