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Newbie - First Trip

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bobkbusch

79
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: Used
PurchDate: FEB 2022
Model: 2552
Slide: Yes
Location: CO

Newbie - First Trip

« on: April 30, 2015, 08:17:50 pm »

Hi all! Finally got to take our first real trip in our 2014 2350!

We bought a used 2014 2350 last fall and had a chance for a quick overnighter in the mountains just to check things out, then we put the coach in storage until last week. We intended to buy new and even met Earl and Kyle at the Hershey RV Show last fall, but this deal fell in our lap and we couldn't pass on it.

We live in Colorado Springs and decided to go to Moab for our maiden voyage. We recently purchased a Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk, and had the baseplates installed just in time for our trip. So, it was baptism by fire as we hooked up our 4500lb vehicle for the very first time and headed west. Drove up to Denver just in time for the Colorado DOT to completely close I-70 for rock slide mitigation. Lesson number 1: always check road conditions!

This required us to backtrack southwest out of Denver on U.S. 285 (a beautiful drive) by South Park and up over Hoosier pass - 11,539'! The V-10 pulled the Trailhawk with no problem up and down. Going up the south side of Hoosier is fairly straight and we never slowed below 45mph. The north side is very curvy and no problems at all on the descent.

Moab was great and we learned a lot of lessons while camping, but enjoyed our trip immensely!

I would like to ask one question... We camped with full hookups and were surprised by how quickly we filled the 23 gallon gray tank. I've seen Earl's video on the Sanicon system and he mentions that you can "balance" the black and gray tanks by opening both valves and this will allow you to boondock longer. I've seen mention of this in a few posts on this forum as well.

My question is... If I am boondocking and unable to dump the black tank, but want to transfer some of the gray water into the larger black tank, won't there be a chance of black tank water entering the gray tank? For example, if the black tank (35 gallons) indicates half full (or approximately 17 gallons) and the gray tank (23 gallons) is indicating 2/3 full (or approximately 15 gallons), wouldn't some of the black flow into the gray?

Lastly, I'll say a BIG THANK YOU to everyone that posts here. We are newbies at RVing and there is no way we would have been able to enjoy our trip without first learning as much as we could by reading all the great information posted on the forum!

Bob

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Ron Dittmer

5647
Ron and Irene
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: New
PurchDate: June 2007
Model: 2350 Ford
ModelYear: 2007
Slide: No
IntColor: Cherry Green&Gray
ExtColor: Full Body Gray
Location: N/E Illinois

Re: Newbie - First Trip

« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2015, 08:49:59 pm »

Hi Bob,

Congratulations on your first trip well done.

We own a 2007 2350 so with regards to tanks and plumbing, we are real close to being the same.

You are correct in that it is possible to get black tank sewage into the gray tank if conditions are right and procedure is not followed correctly. You want to be sure your gray tank is near or at full when mixing. We seem to find out the gray is full when one of us is taking a shower and the water isn't getting down the drain. You also want to open the gray tank first to flood the pipes between the two tanks, then open the black so when the tanks balance out, the water flows from gray to black. You really want to avoid getting that backwards because that means some really nasty stuff could get into the gray tank and so if it backs up into the shower, human waste in one form or another will be on your shower floor.

For a multitude of reasons, at the end of our season, I fill both gray and black tanks to tippy top with warm water with some bleach. This to control odor and to sanitize whatever it can do. After an hour or so, I drain, refill, and drain again. It seems to be very effective in odor control.

One other thing my wife and I practice which is not popular at all is that we only do number one in the toilet. It's who we are, and it helps with odors while our PC is in our garage under our bedroom. If you disagree, just don't try to make a point about it.

Happy Travels!

« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 10:49:26 pm by ron.dittmer »

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Ron (& Irene) Dittmer

David J. Rotelle

Re: Newbie - First Trip

« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2015, 10:09:25 pm »

Hello Bob,

I'm glad to hear things are going well and that you are enjoying your Cruiser, the picture you posted is beautiful.

If you decide to travel east in the future make sure you look us up. Although there are several nice campgrounds here in Lancaster Pa we would welcome any Phoenix cruiser owners to hook up and spend the night........ or several here on our Dairy Farm.

Dave Rotelle
September Farm.

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Carol

303
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: New
PurchDate: July 2014
Model: 2351
ModelYear: 2014
Slide: No
IntColor: Greystone with Sterling Leather
ExtColor: Sterling simplified
Location: What day is it?

Re: Newbie - First Trip

« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2015, 07:08:26 am »

Hi Bob and congratulations on your maiden voyage. I'm happy to hear things went great.
Re the balance between the gray and black tanks, I have a 2351 with the same sized tanks. I keep a dishpan in my sink and after doing dishes I put that water into the black tank via the toilet. Same thing with the shower water. I have a dishpan in one corner of the shower and put the water in there as it heats up for the shower. It also captures some of the water if I hold my head over it when washing my hair. I figure the extra dish soap and shampoo in the black tank is probably a good thing, too.
Happy camping!
PS. I suppose if you are in a place where it makes sense, you can also dump your dishwater onto a dry tree or something. I never do that though, since there are invariably food particles and smells in there and I don't want to attract any bears! hahaha

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blog: www.agingonwheels.com

Ron Dittmer

5647
Ron and Irene
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: New
PurchDate: June 2007
Model: 2350 Ford
ModelYear: 2007
Slide: No
IntColor: Cherry Green&Gray
ExtColor: Full Body Gray
Location: N/E Illinois

Re: Newbie - First Trip

« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2015, 08:09:20 am »

Quote from: Carol on May 01, 2015, 07:08:26 am

I suppose if you are in a place where it makes sense, you can also dump your dishwater onto a dry tree or something. I never do that though, since there are invariably food particles and smells in there and I don't want to attract any bears!

With our old rig we used to do that all the time. But park rules in recent years have strongly frowned upon that. Primarily because of food fragments, but also because it was inundating the ground with detergents. They want campers to dump their dish water into the bear toilet.

Having the two waste tank sizes switched around would have been ideal. But it just could not physically fit under the frame that way. I believe the black tank must be under the toilet, so the floor plan (placement of the toilet) determines the size of the black tank.

Though not ideal, it sure is a whole lot better than other comparable brands. I think my brother's Starflyte has a 7 gallon waste tank and 10 gallon gray tank. He dumps daily, sometimes twice a day. That makes our tanks look like a water truck.

« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 10:34:47 am by ron.dittmer »

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Ron (& Irene) Dittmer

Doneworking

450
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: Used
PurchDate: September 2013
Model: 2350 Ford
ModelYear: 2013
Slide: Yes
Location: Oklahoma City

Re: Newbie - First Trip

« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2015, 08:57:41 am »

Bob, enjoy your 2350!

Our experiences are similar. We were going to Elkhart and trick out a 2350. We had spent a year researching to determine just what brand and layout would work best for us. In the fall of 2013, a (2013) 2350 with a little over 7000 miles popped up for sale four miles from our house....with many more goodies than we would have ordered. We made a deal in about thirty minutes with the owner! It had lived in a HVAC controlled garage and been on two trips. They had never taken the plastic wrap off the floor mats and tags were still hanging from the genset!!

To go with it, we got.....get ready.....a Trailhawk! Seems we share an almost identical experience and tastes. Last summer we spent a month in our rig in NM and CO. We boondock mostly in NF campgrounds with no hookups and have done that for thirty years. The tipping point for the 2350 decision for us was the black tank. It is very large for this size unit and great for boondocking.

You will love your Trailhawk. I have driven Jeeps for 25 years and it is the best one in most respects we have owned. It is my wife's daily driver and I drive a Grand Cherokee....two Jeep family.

Last week was spent in the Ozark National Forest in Arkansas for an early spring shake down before we head out to NM in a few weeks. For the first time, I equalized the tanks. I had forgotten what I had read about how to do it, but found the information in the Sanicom manual that came with the unit.

Since we love to boondock, I installed 200 watts of solar I ordered from Amazon. Now, we can be in the same spot without moving for days at a time and use the genset only for the microwave/convection oven.

Like you, we found the 2350 with Trailhawk in tow went over significant passes with relative ease. We have had 450 Fords in rigs in the past and I think the 350 seems a little less trucky, but the difference in the rear end ratio does make a difference on some of those passes.

Enjoy that new baby!! It has a brother rig down the road in Oklahoma City!

Paul

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bobkbusch

79
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: Used
PurchDate: FEB 2022
Model: 2552
Slide: Yes
Location: CO

Re: Newbie - First Trip

« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2015, 11:12:12 am »

Thanks everyone for the great responses!

Ron, your detailed explanation was exactly what I needed - thanks! Makes sense and now I know how to "balance" the tanks if I need to while boondocking.

Dave, great to hear from you! Looks like you've been using your Cruiser quite a bit. We are going to try to do a little more cold weather camping next winter. I still love the look of your interior and plan on using it as a model if we ever decide to switch to a different floor plan. Please look us up if you bring your boys back to Colorado!

Carol, the dish pan tip is perfect - thanks!

Paul, it looks like we even have more in common. The Trailhawk is my wife's daily driver and I drive a Grand Cherokee as well - we've had numerous Jeeps in the last 25 years! I also have a solar panel, but it is only 130 watts. Do you experience any drifting while pulling the Trailhawk? As I said, no problem up and down numerous high passes in Colorado, but we did have some periods of crosswinds, maybe 20-25mph and I had to pay more attention than I expected. Also, even without crosswinds, if the pavement wasn't flat , meaning slight rut depressions where the pavement has sunk a bit from tire tracks, we also had to fight drift more than I expected. I figured it might be because of the short 158" wheel base on the 2350. I've also read a post on another forum that implored anyone with a 350/450 chassis to get it to an alignment shop and have it adjusted with more + Caster. He states that will greatly improve stability. I need to get out on the highway without the Trailhawk in tow and see if I notice the same drifting.

Bob

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Doneworking

450
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: Used
PurchDate: September 2013
Model: 2350 Ford
ModelYear: 2013
Slide: Yes
Location: Oklahoma City

Re: Newbie - First Trip

« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2015, 11:54:50 am »

Bob, I have no problems with sway or wind with my setup. You might read the post down the list on this General Discussions part of the forum from several days ago. We talked about tire pressures and a 2350. I have been doing it wrong and you can read about my recent "experiment". As to alignment and camber, you are right on target. A lot of posts over the years over in rv.net/forum about this and many guys swear by a higher camber. I took mine to a great local tire shop that is family owned. They have two or three bays large enough for 350 and 450 Fords and do work on commercial trucks in this end of town. I have been using them for thirty years so I have a lot of confidence in them. They put that puppy right in the middle of Ford specs, which are very wide. Apparently, the first thing that an owner should do when a 350/450 is completed by the builder is for it to be aligned. My first owner guy didn't do that and I assumed it had been done....not good and really dumb on my part to make such an assumption. I made it because it drove fine. After all, these are trucks.

Last week, I drove it about six hundred miles and the difference with the corrected tire pressure and alignment was significant. That being said, last year we have made several trips down Interstate 40 from OKC out to Amarillo, about 250 miles and the road runs due east and west. Cross winds of 25-35 mph directly out of the south are common in far western Oklahoma and the Texas Panhandle on that roadway. Even so, I never had a significant problem from wondering or blow by from semis. I suspect on our upcoming trip to NM I will think I am driving my Grand Cherokee on cruise control it will be so smooth with the corrections being made to the 350.

Take a look at the posts in OUR TOAD just below on this forum and you will find a post by me in which I list my hitch and braking equipment. That may be the reason, even with the alignment off and pressures out of kilter that I have had great experiences pulling the Trailhawk.

Paul

« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 12:01:13 pm by Doneworking »

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bobkbusch

79
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: Used
PurchDate: FEB 2022
Model: 2552
Slide: Yes
Location: CO

Re: Newbie - First Trip

« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2015, 02:20:37 pm »

Thanks Paul! I read the 2350 Tire Pressure thread before we left so I had my tires set at 75psi front and 65psi rear IAW the sticker. I might try 65-70 in the front. I had no complaints about the roughness, just occasional sway/drift. I forgot to mention I had airbags installed on the rear axle, along with a compressor and tank. I did that to prevent sag in the rear when I haul my ATV trailer as it has a very heavy tongue weight. I think the ride, at least as far as "roughness" is concerned, is improved when I adjust my airbags depending on my load, but that wasn't the reason I had them installed.

I have the Blue Ox Aventa tow bar, it came with my motorhome purchase. So, I stayed with Blue Ox and used their base plate system. I don't think that is the issue since it tows well at 65-70, even around curves, as long as their is no wind and decent pavement. I suspect it is an alignment issue, so I will put more effort into learning about that and find a good local shop.

edit: I just thought of something... We travelled with our fresh water tank at 1/3 full to save weight while going over the mountains. Perhaps the partially full tank allowed the water to slosh side to side after a gust of wind resulting in the "tail wagging the dog" effect. I will try with empty/full fresh water next to see if it makes a difference.

Bob

« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 02:32:25 pm by bobkbusch »

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TomHanlon

Re: Newbie - First Trip

« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2015, 03:37:32 pm »

Is your tow bar level or within two inches of level? I had to add a four inch risher on the back of the PC to get level. We also tow a Trailhawk, my wifes daily driver. I drive the Grand Cherokee. Have had mostly Jeeps since 1993. Most of the time I don't know it is back there but sometimes it does cause tail wag on bad roads. I use a Blue Ox tow bar and base plates with locking pins. A invisable brake system with radio signal to the PC dash. Also use the Blue Ox light kit for the tail lights. Had a charging wire run to the Jeep battery so it stays charge. We have run from Colorado Springs back to Maryland with out having to unhook.

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Doneworking

450
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: Used
PurchDate: September 2013
Model: 2350 Ford
ModelYear: 2013
Slide: Yes
Location: Oklahoma City

Re: Newbie - First Trip

« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2015, 05:38:25 pm »

Tom brings up a great point: I had to use a six inch riser to get mine properly aligned. The 2350 on the F350 is really pretty low in the back. So low, in fact, I am mindful of the gasoline tank when backing into a camp site with a concrete barrier at the end of the pad. Six inches is really big, but that is what it takes to get it level.

Paul

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bobkbusch

79
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: Used
PurchDate: FEB 2022
Model: 2552
Slide: Yes
Location: CO

Re: Newbie - First Trip

« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2015, 11:28:03 pm »

Thanks Tom for checking on the tow bar height! Yes, I measured my Cruiser's receiver at 16" and the Trailhawk's tow points at 20" so I use a 4" riser and it looks pretty level. I think I might have overstated the amount of sway/drift/tail wag that I get. Like you mentioned, the Trailhawk is unnoticeable most of the time. Just had a few issues when wind gusts kicked us and on uneven pavement. Most of the time it towed really well. Never had any issues with the bow wave off a semi. I just want to investigate all options to help control the sway when it happens.

Pretty amazing...three of us on this thread have Phoenix Cruisers, wife drives a Trailhawk, and we drive a Grand Cherokee! Maybe we should start our own club!

I wanted to mention another lesson we learned. We had a soap dish attached to the shower wall above the hot water handle. One morning, we left for our day's adventure and realized we had forgotten something so we returned to the Cruiser. My wife went inside and discovered the soap dish had fallen off the wall and hit the hot water handle and we had water streaming into the shower! Fortunately we weren't gone long so we didn't flood the camper. The soap dish was attached using 3M Command Tape. We are now looking for the high humidity tape or another option and plan on mounting elsewhere in the shower. Lesson #2: We now turn off the water at the campground spigot each time we depart the campground!

Bob

« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 11:49:57 pm by bobkbusch »

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TomHanlon

Re: Newbie - First Trip

« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2015, 07:22:08 am »

I put in two soap dishes in our shower and they are still there three and half years later. They are the 3M Command product using the "bath" tape that came with them. Last month I added a plastic holder (4l x 2w x 2h) for holding small bottles of shampoo, etc. I used the "bath" tape again and have not had any problems yet. We even left the bottles in there for the trip home from Myrtle Beach to Maryland. I used rubbing alcohol to clean the wall first.

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bobkbusch

79
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: Used
PurchDate: FEB 2022
Model: 2552
Slide: Yes
Location: CO

Re: Newbie - First Trip

« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2015, 09:53:34 am »

I think we had a shower caddy that was too big, and my wife hung it with standard 3M Command tape. We have their smaller soap dish now and I don't anticipate any more problems. Thanks for the tip about cleaning with rubbing alcohol.

After the first couple of days, I was beginning to feel like I was channeling Robin Williams from his movie "RV."

I was leaning toward a permanently installed brake system in our TOAD, like you have Tom. However, we decided to go portable since we might also tow our son's Wrangler on occasion. After a stop for pictures, I reset the system, but missed one step. I drug the Trailhawk for 3-4 miles before I realized it wasn't the uphill grade causing me problems, my brakes were dragging. Won't happen again! BTW, we use the RVI Brake2 system, and like it a lot. I read the Brake Buddy may have issues with seating properly in a Trailhawk, but RVI provides a modified clevis and a backing board to seat the system properly.

We also had issues with propane. I filled the tank before storing for the winter and didn't check the level before departing. We used the cooktop and tested the propane function on the water heater the first night. We had to move RV Parks after two days, so I put the fridge on gas and left the PC in a lot until we could check in later that day.

When we returned, I noticed an "F" in the fridge display so I checked the LP tank gauge and it was empty...uh, oh! Talked with a maintenance guy at the RV park and decided to get the tank filled, after which he did a leak check for me. The fellow filling my tank mentioned the relief valve knob was somewhat loose so we guessed maybe the LP had gradually leaked.

When I attempted to restart the fridge on gas, we got another "F" along with a strong propane smell, followed by the gas leak detector beeping! I shut things off, and read the refrigerator manual and the discussion about bleeding air after a long storage or LP tank refill. I also spoke with Kermit the next day and he gave me a great explanation about LP gas, along with things to check. I'm very appreciative of the fact that he, and others at Phoenix Cruiser, are willing to take their time to talk with me, even though I did not buy new!!!

Long story short, I tried the refrigerator again, after the air had bled from the lines, and it worked fine. We've had no more issues with the propane, so I'll chalk it up to a couple of coincidences, and some ignorance on my part.

After the first few days, things settled in and just like the movie "RV" we had a wonderful vacation!

Bob

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TomHanlon

Re: Newbie - First Trip

« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2015, 01:15:20 pm »

Bob once you buy a PC, new or used, you are part of the family. Look on here and see how many of us are second, third and some fourth time buyers. Kermit goes to the club reuions becasuse he knows how much the current owner bring in new bussines. He even makes small repairs to the rigs at the reunion for free. You can't find a better owner than Kermit.

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