Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Woodchuck on June 20, 2021, 06:23:30 pm
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We have been use to 60 gal gray tank capacity with our class a. Our 2552 only has 18 1/2 gal gray tank capacity. While watching one of the factory videos, it was mentioned that you could dump the gray water tank into the black water tank if you had extra capacity to do so. The procedure to do this was not clear to me. Can someone please share how this is done? Any other ideas on how to extend a dry camp stay. No funnies here :lol, I like to bathe everyday. This post might only be for 2552 owners? Many more questions about our PC to follow. Thanks, Chuck
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Oxygenics Body Spa showerhead. It sretches the fresh water tank too.
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Hi Woodchuck,
Your question comes up now and then. The process works well when your gray tank is full and your black tank is near empty. The process transfers roughly 2/3 of the gray waste water into the black tank.
1) Open the gray tank valve and wait 5 seconds for the waste water to fill the pipe to the black tank valve.
2) Open the black tank valve and wait 10 more seconds for the waste water to level itself between the two tanks.
3) Close both tank valves.
All Done
It is good practice to do this so that the black tank gets wash water for improved self-cleaning action. Don't be concerned that the flooding of the shared pipe makes it's way to the macerator....No harm done.
I have been practicing "tank blending" on our PC since we bought it new in 2007.
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Hi Woodchuck,
Your question comes up now and then.
Well said.
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Woodchuck,
When PC went from the original macerator to the newer Turbocon, the ability to easily transfer from the gray tank to the black tank went away. The old video no longer applies.
Don
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Woodchuck,
When PC went from the original macerator to the newer Turbocon, the ability to easily transfer from the gray tank to the black tank went away. The old video no longer applies.
Don
(WH) ??? (WH)
I did not know of a design change that prevents the blending of the waste tanks. I would like to know when the change was made and also the differences.
I hate providing instruction that does not apply. Sorry Woodchuck for misleading you.
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Thanks for your replies. Our unit was put into service Sept 2019. So manufactured middle of 2019. I will call PC to see if we have the old or new turbocon. Thanks again, Chuck
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My 2552 was manufactured during the period October 2018 to February 2019. It has the Thetford Sanicon Turbo 700 system, which I believe is the current one.
I can and do balance black/gray tanks using basically the steps that Ron describes. As he says, it works most effectively when there is a high imbalance between the tanks, but even when I have something like a 90% grey/40% black, I can still move some water (maybe 5-10% of gray)--did it yesterday, actually.
I have the Garnet SeeLevel II tank monitoring system, so I get 1% change readouts on all my tanks which makes it easy to see. I don't think you could tell what is happening using the standard 1/4 level light sensors.
Mike
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My 2020 2552 also can transfer between tanks.
The feature that does seem to have been designed out and that I would love to have is the grey water bypass.
So when parked somewhere with hookups you can let the grey drain continuously albeit slowly without running the macerator.
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The feature that does seem to have been designed out and that I would love to have is the grey water bypass.
So when parked somewhere with hookups you can let the grey drain continuously albeit slowly without running the macerator.
Jim,
I'm sure you've checked that carefully, but as you know my unit is only about a year in front of yours. My gray water will drain naturally just by opening the valve--no macerator pump. I routinely just put the hose in the dump and leave the gray valve open; gray tank stays almost empty (retains a few percent on my gauge). I have to try to remember to shut the gray valve for a while before I dump black and leave if I want to use it to flush the system after black dump.
Might be worth a double-check.
Mike
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Looking at the 2012 brochure, model 2552 has a 23 gallon gray waste tank. I wonder when and why Phoenix made that tank smaller. I did not realize it went down to 18.5 gallons until this thread was initiated. I also didn't know the process for blending the tanks has been changed. My PC knowledge is becoming "dated".
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Ron, looking at the specification sheet matrix under the PC website, only the model 3100 has the reduced gray water tank capacity. Now the issue seems to be - what to believe? Also, with my 2021 2552, I am able to transfer gray water into the black tank using the procedure you have described.
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Woodchuck,
When PC went from the original macerator to the newer Turbocon, the ability to easily transfer from the gray tank to the black tank went away. The old video no longer applies.
Don
(WH) ??? (WH)
I did not know of a design change that prevents the blending of the waste tanks. I would like to know when the change was made and also the differences.
I hate providing instruction that does not apply. Sorry Woodchuck for misleading you.
Ron,
My 2015 was one of the first to have the turbo macerator. In fact, the turbo macerator on mine is an engineering test unit. In any event, there's no crossover other than inside the macerator itself. Right after we got it, I tried to move Grey water into the black tank. Didn't work. I used what you described, open gray valve, what, open black valve. I waited about 30 seconds, closed black, closed Grey.
I saw no difference in the levels, the next morning, same on the levels. I got to the dumpsite, dumped black, dumped Grey, looked at the levels on the panel. The Grey water level showed only 1 led lit. The black took a while to show empty... which is typical for black tanks.
Never tried it again. When I stopped at the factory for some warranty work, I asked Bob about that, he told me nope... Can't do it with the turbo.
Also, for JSanford, my 2015 2551 has a "19" gallon Grey water tank and a 26 (?) gallon black water tank. No idea on newer models
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Ron, looking at the specification sheet matrix under the PC website, only the model 3100 has the reduced gray water tank capacity.
Hi JSandford,
CLICK HERE (https://www.phoenixusarv.com/read-more-about--cruiser-2552) to see the current specs on model 2552. It states 18.5 gallons for the gray tank.
CLICK HERE (https://www.phoenixusarv.com/read-more-about--cruiser-3100) for model 3100.....23 gallons.
Did you mis-type?
It is interesting that you can blend the tanks on your 2021-2552 but other people cannot. Maybe they are successful, but don't realize it. The 2552 tank is very small. If it is shaped as a low profile pan, not much blending action would happen.
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There was a discussion on the forum a while ago about the tank size in the brochure vs reality. Someone measured how much water they could pour into the shower until the shower drain filled. But the amount was only about 17 gallons (my memory) vs the 23 gallon rated capacity. So they suggested that Phoenix redo their tank sizes. Maybe Phoenix took that to heart. I did that test on my Grey tank... 19 gallons.
At that time (maybe 2017?) there were only 2 waste tank sizes. The larger tank always went on the passenger side and the smaller size went on the driver's side. So, depending on where the toilet was, if on the driver's side, you had a smaller black tank than the grey tank. If the toilet was on the passenger side (like my 2551) the black tank was bigger than the grey tank.
At the time, Phoenix had to make room for the macerator, the compartment for the hose, valve controls, etc which is why the smaller tank was always on the driver's side.
That may have changed since then.
Don
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Looking at the 2012 brochure, model 2552 has a 23 gallon gray waste tank. I wonder when and why Phoenix made that tank smaller. I did not realize it went down to 18.5 gallons until this thread was initiated. I also didn't know the process for blending the tanks has been changed. My PC knowledge is becoming "dated".
I've never attempted to measure capacity, but my 2019 2552 is supposed to be 23 gallons (gray). Just grabbed my 2018 and 2019 brochures, and everything for both years is listed as 23 gallons (even the Mercedes chassis) except the two 2910 models--the "D" and the "T", which have the larger 35 gallon gray.
It's possible that there is an error on the website. If you drop down to the "Specifications" listing on the "Product" page--which lists specifications for all models, they show 23 gallon gray water capacity for the 2552. In fact, all gray water listings are essentially the same as in the '18 and '19 brochures. It's only when you click on the 2552 model specifically, and look at specifications for that model, that the gray tank lists as 18.5. One of those two spec numbers is wrong.
Mike
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Ron D, I have never seen the spec link that you provided. I have always looked at the spec links here https://www.phoenixusarv.com/learn-more-about-the-phoenix--cruiser#specs-row
I will agree that it doesn't take much to fill the gray tank and, yes, it will drain into the black tank, but it will not empty it and in reality it is probably only a few gallons.
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Again, what to believe in gray water tank capacity? This shouldn't be even an issue.
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I found that old thread..
https://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php?topic=3013.msg24971#msg24971
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Update: Just returned from New River SP, Fries, Va. While there tried to equalize the black & gray tanks using the instructions posted. The morning of day three water was backing up in the shower (after 6 showers). The black tank showed 2 lights & of course the gray was full. I was able to transfer, guessing, about a gallon of water. Not enough to make a difference. Have ordered a new shower head with a cut off switch. Thanks for the discussion, lots to learn. :) Chuck
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While there tried to equalize the black & gray tanks using the instructions posted. The morning of day three water was backing up in the shower (after 6 showers). The black tank showed 2 lights & of course the gray was full. I was able to transfer, guessing, about a gallon of water....
Hi Chuck,
I wonder if something is not working properly or a foreign object is in your waste system.
At home with empty tanks, try this.
- Close both tank valves.
- Fill your gray tank with fresh warm water until the shower pan backs up.
- Keep your black tank empty.
- Check the tank sensor readout.
- Blend the tanks.
- Check your sensor readout again.
How much gray water got into the black tank under this ideal condition?
THEN.......
Before draining your experiment on your driveway,
- Add a quart of bleach into your large black tank and a pint into your small gray tank.
- Fill both tanks to near over-flowing with warm water.
- Open/close, open/close, and then open your waste tank valves and leave them open.
- Run the macerator a little to get the bleach solution into the slinky and cap it off.
- Let everything soak for 2 hours in the bleach solution to neutralize residual waste that you will discharge on your driveway.
After the 2 hour soak, do the following to discharge anything that might be the cause for poor tank blending.
- Close the black tank valve.
- Open the 3" gravity drain and let the wild rush out from the gray tank.
- Repeat with the black tank.
- Check for anything unusual that was discharged on your driveway. Maybe you will dislodge a tank plug or other production debris.
After everything is drained, repeat with fresh warm water (no bleach), flush out the macerator and let soak for an hour. Then repeat the same draining process. You want to remove any bleach residue because it will otherwise cause harm. The wild rush draining process done twice might also remove anything getting in the way of proper tank blending.
I do what I just described annually at the end of every RV season with no ill effect after 15 years. We cannot tolerate sewer gas from our PC at home when all closed up tight for the winter because it is parked under our bedroom.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50878550996_7841ddb795_z.jpg)
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Ron, thanks for the recommendation & instruction. I will try this in the next few days. :)Chuck
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It is illegal to drain waste systems with or without bleach in them (even if the tanks were mostly clean to start) into/onto a driveway, street, storm sewer, waterway, pond, etc. in MANY places.
Check you local, county and state rules first please!
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Good advice. I have full hook ups at my home------so no problem.
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It is illegal to drain waste systems with or without bleach in them (even if the tanks were mostly clean to start) into/onto a driveway, street, storm sewer, waterway, pond, etc. in MANY places.
Check you local, county and state rules first please!
Very good input!
We live in the boonies and never considered that.
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Jim,
I'm sure you've checked that carefully, but as you know my unit is only about a year in front of yours. My gray water will drain naturally just by opening the valve--no macerator pump. I routinely just put the hose in the dump and leave the gray valve open; gray tank stays almost empty (retains a few percent on my gauge). I have to try to remember to shut the gray valve for a while before I dump black and leave if I want to use it to flush the system after black dump.
Might be worth a double-check.
Mike
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Thanks Mike: I will double check. Honestly only tried it one night but didn't seem to drain.
Hope all is well with you and you are enjoying your PC.
We are temporarily grounded due to mother in law health issues.
Hope to be out in the PC soon.
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Jim,
I'm sure you've checked that carefully, but as you know my unit is only about a year in front of yours. My gray water will drain naturally just by opening the valve--no macerator pump. I routinely just put the hose in the dump and leave the gray valve open; gray tank stays almost empty (retains a few percent on my gauge). I have to try to remember to shut the gray valve for a while before I dump black and leave if I want to use it to flush the system after black dump.
Might be worth a double-check.
Mike
Thanks Mike: I will double check. Honestly only tried it one night but didn't seem to drain.
Hope all is well with you and you are enjoying your PC.
We are temporarily grounded due to mother in law health issues.
Hope to be out in the PC soon.
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Jim-----in the interest of total accuracy:
I'm just home today from 3 weeks in Colorado and New Mexico, and paid particular attention to my tank drainage while on full hookups. To be totally accurate, there were times when the gray tank registered more than a "few percent" on my SeeLevel gauge (as much as >60% on occasion), but it does drain, and has never overfilled or backed up into the shower pan when I just leave the valve open. I think you'll find that with more extended use, yours will as well.
All the best, Mike
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If you have a mascerator pump, of any brand or design, and back flush valves to both grey and black tanks, there is no reason, with proper screens, that you can't pump any tank to any other tank or the dump station. Unless I'm missing something, its a better controlled situation, gravity mixing with fluids can turn into a guessing game.
With our toilet moved to the outside wall on our 2350, we have approx 20 black, 30 grey, by bucket tests, the only thing you really need to know.
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If you have a mascerator pump, of any brand or design, and back flush valves to both grey and black tanks, there is no reason, with proper screens, that you can't pump any tank to any other tank or the dump station. Unless I'm missing something, its a better controlled situation, gravity mixing with fluids can turn into a guessing game.
With our toilet moved to the outside wall on our 2350, we have approx 20 black, 30 grey, by bucket tests, the only thing you really need to know.
You can't pump the tanks one to the other, it's all done by gravity flow. Also, there are no screens in the tanks or lines... Wouldn't make sense, especially with any solids in the black tank.
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I agree, you do not want to mix black into the grey tank, ever.
The problem that most have is not enough grey capacity. Gravity mixing, is a process that has too many unknown variables,
I don't ever want to experience toilet paper, sewer smells, or anything else in my shower pan!
For the price of a cheap hose you can connect to your mascerator and pump directly into your toilet, or get creative and make up a small hose, with screens, and pump directly into the black flush valve on your black tank.
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I have always found a dump site every 3 or 4 days and only once, found the shower pan quit draining. Within an hour or two of that, all dumped and flushed.
For what it's worth, I put close to 12,000 miles a year so have used its facilities rather often.
2o2 hithere
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Sounds like you are all dialed in!
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For the price of a cheap hose you can connect to your mascerator and pump directly into your toilet, or get creative and make up a small hose, with screens, and pump directly into the black flush valve on your black tank.
The idea to " a small hose, with screens, and pump directly into the black flush valve on your black tank" would be a nightmare. Even if nothing blew up from the macerator pressure. roflol
The first time I read your advice, ""For the price of a cheap hose you can connect to your mascerator and pump directly into your toilet,"" I misunderstood, and thought you were instructing people to pump directly into their HOME toilet! :-[
(For the curious.....DONT!!! It comes out very fast, and not at all neat. Your flush rate/volume may not keep up. :beg Go into your sewer/septic tank cleanout. (nod) If on the road, or at a festival, maybe look for a 'port-o-let' somewhere.. (WH) )
But should the need arise, I would definitely use the Macerator>hose( extension if needed)>RV commode method. Should not even need the extension hose on my 2350. 2o2
When I dump my tanks I run the 'fresh water' flush hose inside, and fill the black tank 1-2 times more as a flush. Running grey water down the commode to transfer seems like a great idea!! Thanks!
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Volke: In a pinch I have dumped into a toilet in my cellar.
I don't have an accessible cleanout so....
My rig is about 40' away from a cellar window and the toilet is just inside the window.
I connect a commercial garden hose I had laying around that is too heavy for actual gardening use and added a 6' piece of smaller more flexible hose to the end of that with no fitting on the far end. I just fish the flexible hose into the toilet well beyond the trap that is built into the toilet. pretty much the whole 6'.
Turn on the macerator and let her rip!
Never had anything back up into the bowl. (water may turn a bit brown)
The key is getting a few feet past the toilet trap.
I only do this when absolutely necessary because just like you my wife watches all that I do, and well... she is not a fan of this method. Happy wife, happy life. 2o2
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Oh yea, forgot one important step.
I clamped the hose to the rim of the bowl using a large spring clamp assuring that the pressure could not force the hose to back out of the toilet causing a disaster.
Gotta admit I was pretty nervous the first time I tried this when I had to go out to the RV to turn on the pump and couldn't see what was happening inside.
Oh well, no problems. :)(:
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Mascerator pumps about 10gpm, similar to a city hookup, reduce it with a valve and stand by the off switch. I'd rather pump grey water, than herd turds....