Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: garmp on April 22, 2020, 04:25:01 pm
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Went to start our coach at the storage lot today and the battery is dead. Started the generator and ran it while we were there. Held down the white switch on the dash and still nothing. Turned the switch to the down position and it rocks back to the original position. Held it down for about 20 minutes and still won't start. Got dash lights this time, but no start.
Going back over there tomorrow with jumper cable. What am I doing wrong with the white switch? It's suppose to be there to start off house batteries, is it not?
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I'm guessing your coach batteries are full and the coach battery disconnect is not disconnected and you held down the white rocker switch while turning the ignition key and you don't have a chassis battery disconnect and you have good battery connections...water in the battery?? Fingers crossed while you hold down the switch?
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I've found that the white switch on the dash is useless if the battery is completely dead. The wires connecting to the coach battery are fairly small. Both times I tried using it I just blew the fuse that is located near the interconnect under the hood. I think if the chassis battery is weak but still has some power the interconnect will allow you to get started but if the chassis is dead you need jumper cables. I'm also not 100% sure I understand how the interconnect is supposed to work. I got conflicting answers when I asked at the factory. And I believe the way it works has changed over the years so different model years might be different.
I bought a set of jumper cables long enough to reach from the coach battery to the chassis battery and that has worked fine.
My chassis battery is also dead this spring and I had installed a Trik-L-Start which should have kept it charged up. I have not had time to tear things apart and see what went wrong. The solar panels kept the coach battery in good shape so there was plenty of power.
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I've answered this question many times.
1. Your Ford battery will go dead because of the computer. So either disconnect or put it on a trickle charger.
2. Yes that switch next to steering wheel will charge the Ford battery but it is a momentary and you need to hold it. Takes too long especially if the Ford battery is really discharged. what I did is just replace it with an on-off switch. Switch pops out and wires side off, a 5 minute job, cost about $10 or less.
3. So whenever I will be parked for more than a week, I turn that switch on until the Ford battery is charged. If you don't let it get too discharged the battery will last for 8 years.
4. I have solar panels so when I'm in long time store I just leave that switch on.
5. Some things you will find when switch is in the on position. The step will go in, even if step switch is on and your awning will not go in or out.
6. No leaving it on will NOT hurt anything.
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Get a Trik-L-Start. It's a full proof way of keeping all your batteries charged.
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Really appreciate the replies. If the rain ever stops, we'll head back to the storage lot and jump it and then drive it around for a bit.
And as a second thought, I'm not sure I had the coach batteries disconnected or not. Oh well, jump it and be done with it.
Thanks again for all the help.
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Let us know what you discover. I highly recommend having a portable jump starter. I try to always have mine with me in whatever vehicle I'm using (if I remember to bring it.) Really nice to have if you need to rescue someone else or are out in the boonies by yourself.
Good luck, and try the fingers crossed trick.
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Well got it jump started and let it run for a while. Tried to start again and nothing, jumped it again. Drove around this time for a good 45 minutes, on the highway and street, stop & go traffic. Drove it home, not to the storage lot. Tried to start again and nothing. So it's off to the store, Monday, for a battery and this time will get a disconnect switch. HOA will just have to live with it.
Safe travels all when things break.
Team Bob
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Did you remove both terminals from the battery and clean them, some corrosion on terminal will prevent charging. Also if you have a digital voltmeter plug it into to dashboard 12v socket or just clip on to the battery. The battery voltage should jump up to 14.5v while charging. You could have a problem with the alternator.
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I've used these on my RVs for the coach and chassis batteries for over 25 years. They are simple and cheap, just my cup of coffee (tea).
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Battery-Cutoff-Switch-Car-Rv-Boat-Truck-Link-Terminal-Quick-Disconnect-Kill-Key/119498120
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One of the first things I did when we got our coach in 2017 was to put a trickle charger on the engine battery for the winter months mid Nov thru Feb when it is parked. OE Motor-craft battery (2016) still died in 2019. Noticed it was cranking slower than usual last mid-year so in went a new cranking battery.
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Doneworking, just bought one of those today, so tomorrow when the new battery goes in this switch will be added.
thanks all
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Took a look at the charging relay (controlled by the white switch) on my 2552. So I believe I found a 40 amp self resetting circuit breaker in line with the relay using what looks to be a #6awg wiring. Should be able to charge up your chassis battery pretty quick. What I did was hold the rocker switch on just until I heard it the big relay click, then turned on the ignition (but not try to start) I could then release the switch and the contactor remained latched in until I turned off the ignition. I guess this is how they intend you to use it. Don't really need to change the switch.
While in there I did find something interesting (disappointing): My Trik-L-Start seems to be wired improperly. The yellow wire which is supposed to go on the positive from the coach battery is not tied to the large coach battery wire on the top of the relay but instead is connected to the positive side of the relay coil located at the bottom of the big relay. This terminal only has power when the rocker switch is pushed or the relay is latched in. So basically If I'm seeing this right, the Trik-L-Start is only really working when the 40 amp charging circuit is activated. Kind of makes it useless. Somebody on the forum recently mentioned that they had a Trik_L-Start but their battery died anyways. Wonder if this is a common mis-wiring from Phoenix?
One thing to note. Even though my Trik-L-Start is mis-wired, The light indicating "maintaining" was illuminated. It was only when I latched in the big relay that the "charging" light went on. So don't assume because you see the top light on that everything is ok. If you see a yellow wire connecting to one of the small screws at the bottom of the big relay, you likely have the same issue. If I'm right about this, I hope this helps somebody. If I'm wrong, well you got what you paid for. roflol
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Hello Jim
I believe you are correct that your Trik-L-Start maybe wired incorrectly. Yellow goes to the house battery, Blue to the chassis battery and black to ground. Also the way I understand the chassis white rocker switch on the dash is that when you hold it on it closes the relay allowing the chassis battery to reach a state of equilibrium with the house batteries. However the relay is also closed when the coach is started allowing the alternator to charge the coach batteries while driving down the road. I don't believe that is a latching relay, so when the ignition switch is on the relay closes. That is at least how mine is wired.
This wiring diagram however shows it differently, It shows another set of contacts that don't exist on mine. It opens and blocks the house and chassis batteries from becoming connected. On mine if you follow the wiring you can trace one of the wires on the load side of the relay to the house batteries and the other to the chassis battery. So anytime that relay closes it actually places the chassis and house batteries in parallel.
Lance
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While in there I did find something interesting (disappointing): My Trik-L-Start seems to be wired improperly. The yellow wire which is supposed to go on the positive from the coach battery is not tied to the large coach battery wire on the top of the relay but instead is connected to the positive side of the relay coil located at the bottom of the big relay. This terminal only has power when the rocker switch is pushed or the relay is latched in. So basically If I'm seeing this right, the Trik-L-Start is only really working when the 40 amp charging circuit is activated. Kind of makes it useless. Somebody on the forum recently mentioned that they had a Trik_L-Start but their battery died anyways. Wonder if this is a common mis-wiring from Phoenix?
Hi Jim,
I'm going to make a little stretch and say that you definitely got a mis-wire on your Trik-L-Start from Phoenix. I mentioned earlier that, to my surprise, I found a factory installed Trik-L-Start on my 2019 after I got it home. I had actually already bought one to self-install, but was able to gift that forward after I found the one from Phoenix. Anyway, my factory unit is properly installed using the two main connections for house and chassis batteries on the charging relay--yellow on the house terminal and blue on the chassis terminal. I believe whoever made that connection for your unit at Phoenix got the wrong terminal connection for the yellow wire--as you say, pretty much makes your Trik-L-Start redundant until you move that wire.
Also, for what it's worth, I believe your assessment of how to use the "white switch" is exactly right. Much speculation on the forum over time on this subject. The primary purpose of that big relay is to provide alternator charging to the coach batteries when the engine is running of course, and it is normally energized from the chassis battery system when you turn the key on and start the engine. But sometime in the past someone at Phoenix realized that if they could still energize that relay with the chassis battery dead, the circuit could be used in reverse to feed coach battery power to the dead chassis battery--hence the "white switch" that will feed a 12-volt signal from the coach batteries to activate the relay. Once activated for a few seconds (with the key switch ON), there is enough voltage present in the chassis battery system to hold the relay in and allow the charge current to continue to flow from the coach batteries to the chassis battery until the key is switched OFF. Of course, replacing that momentary "white switch" with a permanent off/on switch would accomplish the same thing without having to turn on the key, but you then have the risk of inadvertently having that relay closed when it should not be if you forget to turn the white switch back off (or accidentally bump it on sometime).
Also---that wiring diagram that Lance posted has been around the forum quite a bit, but I'm not sure of the original source for it. It is definitely helpful to get an overview of a typical 30-amp Phoenix electrical layout, but as Lance mentioned it is neither absolutely accurate nor complete. I appreciate whoever first made it available, but one should use it as a general reference only. I wish Phoenix would see fit to publish one at some point.
All the best, Mike
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I am the source of the electrical wiring diagram. This is what is posted: https://keelhauler.org/RV/2552ElectricalSystem.jpg
If there are any corrections that you are confident that need to be made, please post here.
The white switch questions result in Phoenix changing something from 2012 to now. If someone would show exactly how it now works please explain, without Trik_L-Start. Put a 12v digital readout in one of the dash sockets and tell me what the voltage does when the engine is off and you push the switch then let it return and exactly what you have to do to get it to stay at coach voltage when not holding it on.
I have seen several PC's not do anything when that switch was pushed since there was a problem with their chassis relay wiring.
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John: Just took a quick look at your schematic. Looks like there might be something in the area of the latching relay that might be different from what I saw yesterday.
But before I say too much I want to get in there and remove the big reservoir tank so I can get a good look to be sure.
Will draw up a hand sketch of what I find.
Should have some time Wednesday or Saturday.
Take care, Jim G.
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Hello Jim, Mike H and Keelhauler
Jim you said "What I did was hold the rocker switch on just until I heard it the big relay click, then turned on the ignition (but not try to start) I could then release the switch and the contactor remained latched in until I turned off the ignition.". Jim and Mike H Can you check this? If you just get in the coach and turn the ignition key until the idot lights light up in the dash cluster, and check and see if the relay is closed. I did it just a second ago by having my wife turn the ignition switch while I just held my hand on the relay. I believe you are going to find that the relay closes. i don't believe there is any latching relay in the circuit, its possible PC changed something but don't see why they would add it to the wiring when its not needed.
Jim I believe this relay closes to charge the house batteries while traveling. Some older RV's were not wired this way and the only way to get the batteries charged was either solar or to plug in/generator and use the converter. Instead of using the white switch on the dash you could simply turn the ignition switch to the position where the idot lights light and do the same thing as the switch. The only down side is that you power up items like the ECM and other electrical components that are just using power which is defeating what you are trying to accomplish ( raising the chassis battery voltage using the house batteries). It looks like the wire size is about a 6AWG going to the relay on the load side. This tells me that it isn't sufficient enough to carry much of a load from the starter, thats why there is a automatic reseting circuit breaker on the load side of the relay from the house batteries. If your chassis battery is weak, you will most benefit by holding the rocker switch to close the relay and wait. You need to give it some time for the house batteries to discharge and bring up the voltage of the chassis battery ( batteries are actually trying to equalize voltage between them). That is why some people on here have installed a toggle switch, so they can simply flip the switch give it 5 minutes or so then start the engine. It should be noted that this wiring scheme only will work if the battery is low on charge, if the battery is sulfated and shorted across the plates it won't help, it will just start draining your house batteries.
Keelhauler I would like to say thank-you for posting these wiring diagrams on the forum. Great reference material! I am under the impression that the only latching relay is the one that operates the water pump which is located under the passenger side bed on the 2552. Is this correct?
Like I said it is wired this way on my 2017 2552. If yours is different I would be very interested to know why it has changed.
Lance
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I am the source of the electrical wiring diagram. This is what is posted: https://keelhauler.org/RV/2552ElectricalSystem.jpg
If there are any corrections that you are confident that need to be made, please post here..
Hi John----
Good to know that you were the source of the wiring diagram! I really appreciate you taking time to develop it and make it available--especially since Phoenix doesn't give us one. Shortly after getting my unit I printed a large copy and added it to my electrical file in my collection of manuals for the RV.
The initial differences that had jumped out at me between that diagram and my 2019 2552 likely just stem from some evolution in components and circuitry used by Phoenix. They have changed converters, of course, and my Progressive Dynamics PD4560 (aside from being a 50-amp system) has some minor differences in both the 12-volt fused circuits and the 110-volt breaker circuits from your original.
Since I've had no real electrical problems to date, I haven't attempted to follow all the Phoenix add-on wiring to the chassis in detail, but most of what I've looked at definitely matches. As Lance mentioned, however, that set of normally closed contacts that you depict immediately adjacent to the battery that appear to open when the ignition turns on don't exist on my unit (at least electrically where you have them). The chassis battery side of the charging relay is connected directly to my chassis battery positive by a single unbroken cable.
I don't know what other minor changes might have been made by Phoenix on a year-to-year basis. Consequently I am not suggesting that you "correct" your wiring diagram--unfortunately there may not be one "correct" diagram that applies to even the last several years of just the 2552 model. I certainly welcome and appreciate what you've given us to work from with that initial diagram. It's the basis from which we can at least identify the minor changes that might exist on our units.
All the best, Mike
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Jim you said "What I did was hold the rocker switch on just until I heard it the big relay click, then turned on the ignition (but not try to start) I could then release the switch and the contactor remained latched in until I turned off the ignition.". Jim and Mike H Can you check this? If you just get in the coach and turn the ignition key until the idot lights light up in the dash cluster, and check and see if the relay is closed. I did it just a second ago by having my wife turn the ignition switch while I just held my hand on the relay. I believe you are going to find that the relay closes. i don't believe there is any latching relay in the circuit, its possible PC changed something but don't see why they would add it to the wiring when its not needed.
Jim I believe this relay closes to charge the house batteries while traveling. Some older RV's were not wired this way and the only way to get the batteries charged was either solar or to plug in/generator and use the converter. Instead of using the white switch on the dash you could simply turn the ignition switch to the position where the idot lights light and do the same thing as the switch. The only down side is that you power up items like the ECM and other electrical components that are just using power which is defeating what you are trying to accomplish ( raising the chassis battery voltage using the house batteries). It looks like the wire size is about a 6AWG going to the relay on the load side. This tells me that it isn't sufficient enough to carry much of a load from the starter, thats why there is a automatic reseting circuit breaker on the load side of the relay from the house batteries. If your chassis battery is weak, you will most benefit by holding the rocker switch to close the relay and wait. You need to give it some time for the house batteries to discharge and bring up the voltage of the chassis battery ( batteries are actually trying to equalize voltage between them). That is why some people on here have installed a toggle switch, so they can simply flip the switch give it 5 minutes or so then start the engine. It should be noted that this wiring scheme only will work if the battery is low on charge, if the battery is sulfated and shorted across the plates it won't help, it will just start draining your house batteries.
OK, Lance. Since I was already working on a post to another message in this string when your above message hit---I'll just add a couple of comments to your thoughts. To preface, I'm not the expert on this issue. Several years training and work as an electronics technician (many, many years ago), give me a pretty good understanding of these type systems, but my comments are opinions only.
First, you're correct, the primary purpose of this relay is to provide a way to connect/disconnect the house batteries to the Ford 12-volt system to allow the alternator to charge them. Older systems used isolator diode units to do this, but everything later transitioned to relays. You're also correct that this is not a "latching" relay. It is simply activated by the key switch--it's open (disconnecting the house batteries from the Ford circuit) when the key switch is off, and engages (connecting the house batteries to the Ford 12-volt system) when the switch is turned on
What Phoenix did with the "white switch" (as I mentioned in an earlier post), is just provide a second way to engage the relay from the house batteries. If the chassis battery is fairly dead, there won't be enough voltage to pull in the relay by turning on the key switch. But you can activate the "white switch and feed 12 volts from the house batteries through that switch to the relay coil to pull in the relay, connecting the house and chassis batteries. This effectively allows the house battery charging circuit to be used in reverse to flow current from hot house batteries into a dead (or low) Ford chassis battery.
You're right that you can't provide "cranking current" through it--the 40-amp circuit breaker in the relay circuit limits current to that amount--and you also can't overcome a chassis battery that is shorted or open internally, but a good hot house battery bank can provide a pretty good boost to the Ford system over a period of time. Info in the (very limited) Phoenix Owner's Manual that I received in my package recommends activating the "white switch" and then waiting "about an hour" before cranking the Ford. That amount of time would pretty much allow a dead but decent chassis battery to fully equalize with the house batteries--likely enough to start the Ford.
Lastly---the question of whether to hold in the (momentary) white switch, or exactly how to do it. If the chassis battery is not too low (say barely cranking, but not enough to start), one might hold in the momentary switch for a while and get enough help in there from the house batteries to allow it to crank off. However to follow Phoenix's suggestion to allow an hour---well, that's a long time to hold in a momentary switch. For a really dead battery, probably the best bet with the momentary switch would be to hold it in long enough to let the house batteries get the chassis system voltage up to the point that the relay will hold in from the key switch feed--then just the key switch being on will keep the relay in. You're right that that approach means that the other systems that come on with the key pull some of the power you're putting in from the house batteries, but probably won't pull enough to defeat the process. That's where the option of the toggle-type switch recommended by John (Keelhauler) comes in. The toggle switch eliminates having to hold in the momentary switch (and/or) then use the key switch for long periods. The only concern that may come with that method is the possibility of the switch being left on or turned on when it shouldn't be--with any negatives that accrue from that.
Sorry that the "couple of comments" got more long-winded than intended (and some are repetitious), but as Jim said there's no charge for them.
Mike
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I made a new sketch of charging relay and white switch. Right side or original diagram.
If it looks right, I'll change the electrical drawing.
(https://keelhauler.org/RV/Charging%20Relay.jpg)
So Coach batteries charge when vehicle ignition is on and engine is running.
Chassis battery charges when the white switch is in the on position.
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Hi John,
I believe that, electrically, with this diagram you're on the money with the connectivity of my 2019 2552. Can't speak for other years/models.
Of course, we've been calling this a wiring diagram when in fact it's a schematic--but at least for me a schematic is really what you need to understand the circuit or use to troubleshoot.
I admire your ability to quickly construct the diagram and get it posted--I have trouble even trying to post a picture sometimes.
Again, thanks for your help in filling a void for us that Phoenix hasn't yet managed to do.
All the best, Mike
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John: Thats likely what my rig looks like. I just never checked to see that the ignition would pull the relay in without being initiated with the white switch. Hence my erroneous reference to a latch relay.
Once the rain stops I'll get a closer look to confirm.
On my trickle start the yellow wire that is supposed to be tied to house battery is connected where I've drawn the blue circle below. No house power there unless the relay is activated.
Now lets see if I can get this picture attached...
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John: Thats likely what my rig looks like. I just never checked to see that the ignition would pull the relay in without being initiated with the white switch. Hence my erroneous reference to a latch relay.
Once the rain stops I'll get a closer look to confirm.
On my trickle start the yellow wire that is supposed to be tied to house battery is connected where I've drawn the blue circle below. No house power there unless the relay is activated.
Now lets see if I can get this picture attached...
After looking at LSL's website relative to the Trik-L-Start, it's designed to monitor both chassis and house batteries. When the chassis battery gets low, current will be drawn from the house batteries (and or a solar array). With the yellow wire for the house batteries located where you circled... It would not work.
In addition, the 'presumption' is that your house batteries are being kept charged by either being plugged into shore power or a solar array. Your house batteries cannot really charge anything if they aren't fully charged themselves
As you know, the engine battery without something like the trk-l-start gets zero charge when the alternator is not running. I was plugged into shore power for a couple of weeks at my son's house. I had a small 75w inverter plugged into the chassis 12v plug.
Went to start engine.... Zip, Zilch, Nada. A Trik-L-Start would have prevented that. But not if the yellow wire is only connected to the alternator output/12v chassis battery plus terminal.
You need yours rewired.
Do
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Yep, its next on the list. ;)
Will probably get it done when I install the new radio. Need to pull some power to it for the amp so if I I may grab it at the relay or possibly the cigarette lighter if it is wired for 30amp.
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My bad.
Removed the reservoir to get a better look today and found that although there is a yellow wire on the charge relay coil terminal, it is NOT the yellow wire from the Trik-L-Start.
Faith restored in Ed the guy that wired all out units!
There are three wires on the coil terminal of the relay, I now assume one is from the ignition. One from the white switch, and something else. Maybe to retract the step? It is a yellow wire, slightly larger gauge than the Trik-L-Start.
Sorry for assuming the worst PC.
Here's what it look like in there.
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Jim, your wiring duplicates mine.
I'm sure that you're correct about the ignition and the white switch wires. I didn't attempt to determine purpose of the third wire, but I suspect that your step retraction thought is a excellent candidate.
Mike
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Jim.Godfrey (http://[/url)
Maybe to retract the step? It is a yellow wire, slightly larger gauge
That's it, My sketch is wrong where it ties in, I'll correct the drawing.
(https://keelhauler.org/RV/Charging%20Relay.jpg)
Corrected System Schematic (https://keelhauler.org/RV/2552ElectricalSystem.jpg)
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That looks right to me John.
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There's actually about a 20 second delay between when the ignition goes on (or maybe engine start) and when the alternator output goes to the coach battery circuit.
I say this because while in storage, with all batteries disconnected, in order to start the generator via the chassis battery, I close the chassis battery knife switch (leaving coach batteries disconnected completely) then I start the engine and wait about 20 seconds before I have any power to prime or crank the generator. Not sure about the interior lighting because I typically don't turn it on. So there is some form of a time delay latch in there too.
Don
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Don: wondering if there is a boot process the electronics on the generator need to go through before it enables to operate?
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Don: wondering if there is a boot process the electronics on the generator need to go through before it enables to operate?
I don't think so... But obviously don't know for sure. I just know I do not get a light on the switch in prime position nor do I get a light when I try to start. About 20 seconds later, it's all good. My memory says I hear a click when the 20 seconds is up... but it's been a while, so I could be wrong on that.
Next time I go to the storage yard, I will turn on the inverter and lighting and see if they come on immediately when I turn ignition on or if there's a delay too. I have a generator maintenance manual (pdf file) somewhere here or on my laptop, I will look and see if it mentions anything about a boot up sequence.
Don
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OK, found the maintenance manual. The main control module (control A) is a group of relays, resistors and the like permanently potted to make waterproof. No "brains" so nothing to boot up and nothing in the manual about it having any delay built in.
Don
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BTW, there is a new model Trik-l-Start. Same hookup and so forth but it charges the chassis battery at 10amp rather than the original 5amp. $54.95 + $1.50 shipping + tax direct from LSL.
No, I have no affiliation with LSL.
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Is this the Amp L Start?
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Doneworking: How'd the heck did you ever get that cut-off switch in there? There is like no space!!!!
Gor the negative disconnected, but would like the switch.
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I found that the house batteries on my new-to-me 2551 are dead because I didn't turn off the battery switch when I parked it.
The step won't extend.
I don't have shore power near my parking space.
So...what is the best way to bring it back to life?
I figure the generator won't start with no house battery power for the starter.
Will starting the engine eventually charge the house batteries? I replaced the isolator relay in my Clarion with a hybrid one that automatically switches in the house batteries for charging once the engine battery is topped off: https://www.powerstream.com/battery-isolator.htm (https://www.powerstream.com/battery-isolator.htm)
Should I plug it in to shore power temporarily? Jump the house batteries from my car? How long should it take for the convertor to charge the house batteries?
I do have a solar panel and controller. That may be one more thing I add to the list for Phoenix to install when I visit in September.
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The step extends via the engine battery, or at least on my 2015 model. Yes, the engine will charge the house batteries after the engine has been running for a minute or so. There is already an isolator in the PC. Shore power is better, you don't need a 30 amp outlet as long as you don't try to run the air conditioner or microwave. So a standard 120v plug adapter to a 30 plug works fine.
On my 2015 model, the generator will start via the engine battery but the engine must be running for a minute or two before you get any power to the generator starter.
Make sure, if your house batteries have water in them if they are flooded cell batteries. If they are the original batteries, they may just be plain worn out.
No, do not jump the house batteries with your car. That will only give you a momentary charge unless you want to leave your car idling for several hours.
A standard 12v battery charger will work. Depending on the amperage of the charger, it could take 12 or more hours and that's if your house batteries are in good condition.
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Hello Don
My 2017 2552's generator power comes straight off of the house battery. There is a 125amp circuit breaker that was located behind the house batteries. I can remove the engine battery and still start my generator.
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Hello Don
My 2017 2552's generator power comes straight off of the house battery. There is a 125amp circuit breaker that was located behind the house batteries. I can remove the engine battery and still start my generator.
And I have done the same with the house batteries disconnected or removed. Start the engine, wait a minute or two and then the generator can be primed and started.
That was how I would "exercise" the generator when the unit was stored over the winter and the house batteries were removed and sitting at home on a battery tender. If you shut the engine off, the generator will go off too.
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Hello Don
My 2017 2552's generator power comes straight off of the house battery. There is a 125amp circuit breaker that was located behind the house batteries. I can remove the engine battery and still start my generator.
And I have done the same with the house batteries disconnected or removed. Start the engine, wait a minute or two and then the generator can be primed and started.
Lance--remember the engine alternator feed through the firewall relay back to the house batteries----don't remember exactly how the cabling connects in the battery compartment, but as long as that charging wire gets to the feed cable to the 125 amp breaker to the generator, the engine battery bolstered by the alternator output very likely feeds enough juice to crank the generator, even with no house batteries installed.
Mike
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The step extends via the engine battery, or at least on my 2015 model. Yes, the engine will charge the house batteries after the engine has been running for a minute or so. There is already an isolator in the PC. Shore power is better, you don't need a 30 amp outlet as long as you don't try to run the air conditioner or microwave. So a standard 120v plug adapter to a 30 plug works fine.
On my 2015 model, the generator will start via the engine battery but the engine must be running for a minute or two before you get any power to the generator starter.
Make sure, if your house batteries have water in them if they are flooded cell batteries. If they are the original batteries, they may just be plain worn out.
No, do not jump the house batteries with your car. That will only give you a momentary charge unless you want to leave your car idling for several hours.
A standard 12v battery charger will work. Depending on the amperage of the charger, it could take 12 or more hours and that's if your house batteries are in good condition.
Thanks, Don.
I brought the PC home and put it on house power. Everything, including starting the generator works, EXCEPT the power step will not extend.
The inverter panel shows 13.7 volts, which dropped to 12.n when I cranked the generator, which did start after a handful of tries.
Did I read here that there's reset switch for the step underneath? I may be able to have someone look.
I'll be ofg to Elkhart to get my long list of to-dos addressed, up to putting a solar panel on the roof. I can drive it so I may get the step fixed on arrival.
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There is NO reset switch. One thing that will keep steps from working is the little switch to the left of the steering wheel was left on. (It would have had to be changed out to an on-off switch) Or the engine is running or key on. This is a safety feature so step goes in when you start.
A separate issue is the main power switch near the door on? If not batteries will not charge.
How old are your batteries? Are the 2-6v in series?
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There is NO reset switch. One thing that will keep steps from working is the little switch to the left of the steering wheel was left on. (It would have had to be changed out to an on-off switch) Or the engine is running or key on. This is a safety feature so step goes in when you start.
A separate issue is the main power switch near the door on? If not batteries will not charge.
How old are your batteries? Are the 2-6v in series?
I put the step door bypass switch in both positions but the step never extends.
I now have the house batteries connected at the panel by the door and the PC has been on shore power overnight.
Mine has two 12v batteries in parallel.
If PHX tells me they're bad - which doesn't seem to be so now - I'll do as Ron did and get 2 6v AGM batteries to put in series, provided I can make them fit.
I bought a TRIK-L and have a permanent connect eigne BatteryMINDer conditioner on my old MH that I'll transfer over.
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The step is powered by the Ford chassis battery. There is a fuse under left floor mat. There is a 4 wire connector near the step. As long as the ignition is off the red wire should be 12v.
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Why doesn't the PC have a solenoid battery isolator like these? https://www.powerstream.com/battery-isolator.htm
That connects the house batteries for charging to the engine battery and the alternator once the engine battery is fully charged, but it also has a connection point that goes to the momentary emergency switch inside so you can manually make the connection to start the engine from the house battery. The cables to the relay would be heavy battery cables so there is plenty of current for both charging and emergency starting.
I thought the emergency switch on the PC is the same but it's the light wire that only charges while you hold it. I can understand why the fuse on it slows if you try to start the engine while holding the switch as you would do with an isolator.
I already got stranded when the engine battery died because I left the lights on while camped. In that case the existing switch didn't help.
Maybe I'll install one of the Powerstream isolators.
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I have little faith in that little switch by the driver's left knee. I could see it being useful if accidentally draining the chassis battery. But to sit and hold that switch for a half hour while the generator is running to get the battery recharged, does not make sense.
I carry an extra-long set of heavy gauge jumper cables for jumping the chassis battery with the house batteries. I have used them when my original chassis battery was at the end of it's life. Until I was able to replace that dying battery, with every additional start, I had to increase jump-start capacity, first by running the generator, and later adding my external 40 amp charger. Between the three different sources, I got the engine started that final time.
The jumper cables are also handy for the tow vehicle and in helping other people.
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I followed Keelhauler’s lead and installed an on/off switch in lieu of the momentary switch to the left of the steering wheel. Previously I used a small charger to bring the chassis battery back to full charge after setting idle for more than several days. The charger and an inexpensive volt meter plugged into one of the cab cigarette lighters worked successfully but the charger required access to 110 volt power.
The on/off switch and adequate solar allows me to keep my chassis battery at or near 100% state of charge which is ideal for maximizing the life of the battery. Whether I am camping off the electrical grid or too lazy to connect shore power at home I am able to address and prevent the slow but certain discharge of the chassis battery due to parasitic loads. I carry a set of jumper cables also just in case but knock on wood I haven’t needed them. Thanks Keelhauler for that useful tip.
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I would also like to point out that switch turns on a relay that has adequate sized wires to charge your Engine battery. Why they installed a momentary switch makes no sense at all. Since many of us replaced with and on-off switch and it works fine , eliminating the need to buy any other system (i.e. Trik-L). It will bring your battery up to high enough voltage in a few minutes charging time.
Mike-E Says The cables to the relay would be heavy battery cables so there is plenty of current for both charging and emergency starting.
It would not be possible to run starter current through this relay unless you had #0 cable.