Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Grandpa17 on December 27, 2019, 09:51:53 am
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Still a big fanboy of PC, however, the bed/mattress design isn’t working for us at all. We bought the 2351D with the idea it was going to be primarily a point to point vehicle, not planning to spend more than a night or two in it at a time. However, we are now on a trip where we will be spending about 2 1/2 weeks in it. After a week we are waking up with very sore backs. The two main issues are that the stock mattress is way too firm and secondly because of the slide design there is a 4 1/4” step between the top half of the mattress support surface and the bottom half. The mattress has two sections, one being 5” thick and the other being 8” thick. That causes the bottom section to be about 1 1/4” lower than the top section, plus the mattress sags in the middle. Just all the way around, not good. To make the mattress softer I bought a 2” topper but the problem with that is that it doesn’t stay in place at night. I’ve included a model to show the issue.
So... I think I have a mod that’s going to make a huge difference. I don’t have time right now but will follow up with my idea ASAP...
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Still a big fanboy of PC, however, the bed/mattress design isn’t working for us at all. We bought the 2351D with the idea it was going to be primarily a point to point vehicle, not planning to spend more than a night or two in it at a time. However, we are now on a trip where we will be spending about 2 1/2 weeks in it. After a week we are waking up with very sore backs. The two main issues are that the stock mattress is way too firm and secondly because of the slide design there is a 4 1/4” step between the top half of the mattress and the bottom half. The mattress has two sections, one being 5” thick and the other being 8” thick. That causes the bottom section to be about 1 1/4” lower than the top section, plus the mattress sags in the middle. Just all the way around, not good. To make the mattress softer I bought a 2” topper but the problem with that is that it doesn’t stay in place at night. I’ve included a model to show the issue.
So... I think I have a mod that’s going to make a huge difference. I don’t have time right now but will follow up with my idea ASAP...
Yikes Grandpa17! The platform for the mattress is not flat when the slide out is open, and so you have different mattress thicknesses to compensate for a 4-1/4" differential? That does seem ripe for discomfort.
I wonder if you could come up with a nice special-made 4-1/4" fabric-covered light-weight unforgiving Styrofoam-type filler to place in the lower section to level the sleeping surface, then get a normal consistent thickness mattress to sleep on. But I wouldn't know if that'll work with your particular slide out. If you have a two piece, two thickness mattress now, you might still need two pieces to close up the slide out.
With your 2351D, do you have to remove 100% of your bedding including your fitted sheet, every time you pull in the slide out? If so, then I assume standard bedding consisting of fitted and flat sheets don't work for the application and you have resorted to another method for bedding.
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I don't know for sure but I might have a partial solution to your problem. I have no thoughts on the mattress being too firm, but on the thickness I do have one. With out seeing the actual construction I will venture my guess. First off the part that slides when in fits over a permanent box containing what I assume is the water tank or such. There has to be some kind of clearance for the device to slide in and out. My guess is that the difference in the mattresses you mentioned is about 1/2 the difference of the two surfaces.
Solution: flip the mattress. Put what is at your head to the foot section, etc. The difference of the mattress thickness should compensate for the difference in surface heights.
Hope this works for you. Especially since we have a 2351D on order and really don't want to start out with a problem.
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In the first model I’m showing the mattress configuration and the slide in for travel. In the second model I’m showing it in sleeping configuration. One of the problems is that the height of the slide step is 4 1/4” but the difference in mattress thickness is only 3 inches. That causes the mattress to sag right at your waist which I think is what is causing our back aches.
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Here’s what I’m going to try... I have ordered a 6” trifold mattress and will make a 4 1/4” thick platform. That way the mattress will lay perfectly flat and I think it will be simple to store by folding it up. I’m planning to make the platform as light as possible and hinge it. (I’ll experiment with the platform before attaching it)
Any thoughts, suggestions?
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Here are my thoughts on the platform. Trying to keep it as light as possible.
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Grandpa17,
In my earlier reply, I was suggesting to make a 4-1/4" "filler" piece made of dense Styrofoam, covered in some kind of upholstery fabric, vinyl, or even interior-matching leather if you want to get real fancy. The right kind of Styrofoam will not give, crush, or crumble from the weigh of a human. It would also be extremely light weight.
An alternative to Styrofoam is foundation insulation. It is sold in 2" thicknesses and in 2x8 and 4x8 sheets. Some types might crumble a little over time, others surely not at all. Go to your all your home improvement centers to examine the various material choices. The material is extremely light weight and also very affordable. You would have to glue 2 pieces together to get 4", then add 1/4" light weight luan to complete the thickness. Maybe glue the 1/4" luan in-between the two for a good sandwich. Cover the sandwich in a zippered fabric or vinyl cover would make it very nice, and being zippered, you can easily replace the core material if needed. Phoenix may be willing to make a matching interior zippered cover to your specification, especially considering your dissatisfaction with your bed. You are doing their engineering for them.
Foundation insulation is designed to withstand the weight of earth against concrete basement walls. If it won't crush under that pressure, I think you won't crush it either.
(https://www.buildmyowncabin.com/foundation/foundation%20insulation.jpg)
Handling a fabric-covered light weight block won't be intrusive like a wooden box. You can toss it round effortlessly and it won't bang up your interior either.
BTW: Nice Diagrams!
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Prior to ordering our 2351D we went to the plant and took a tour of one. DW even laid on the bed and remarked how much she liked it. The bed is the reason we are upgrading as she has developed back problems. There was no variance in thickness. Guess what I'm suggesting is if there is any way to go back to the plant I'm sure they will rectify the issue. If that's not possible I would definitely call them and state the issue.
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Ron,
Great suggestions. I have actually considered styrofoam but wasn’t convinced I could cover it to look nice enough. Gluing luan to both sides is a good idea. Plus I want cover the top side with carpet to match the slide floor. Since it probably won’t be too costly I might give it a try. If nothing else it will help with proof of concept.
I’m planning to attach whatever platform I come up with to the slide with a scissor hinge and swing it up when not needed.
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Prior to ordering our 2351D we went to the plant and took a tour of one. DW even laid on the bed and remarked how much she liked it. The bed is the reason we are upgrading as she has developed back problems. There was no variance in thickness. Guess what I'm suggesting is if there is any way to go back to the plant I'm sure they will rectify the issue. If that's not possible I would definitely call them and state the issue.
Garmp,
We spent some time at the factory too. In our case the bed design was probably my biggest concern about the unit. In just the few minutes of laying on it I didn’t notice the difference in height issue, and even in a couple of overnighters we didn’t notice it. Now, though, after spending a week on it we’re both miserable! Not only is there a deference in height issue, but the center section of the mattress is sinking in. We wake up with our backs so sore that my wife has taken to sleeping on the recliners.
Hopefully you will have a much better experience than we have, but both my wife and are desperate to get a flat, comfortable bed. Unless they have changed something before you get yours I’m guessing you’ll have the same experience.
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I’m planning to attach whatever platform I come up with to the slide with a scissor hinge and swing it up when not needed.
Ah! A scissor hinge or piano hinge would assure your home made platform does not bounce around doing damage to itself or the world around it. I better understand now, your desire to use wood products. You have a great plan there.
Regarding your current two depth mattress. Based on our experience with foam seat filler, I surely understand why it would feel good during a test and a few nights thereafter, but getting worse over time. One example at home, my lawn tractor seat had 4 mounting bolt-ends sticking up very little into the foam. It was fine for a year, but bothered me later. I had to take the seat apart and grind the 4 stems flat to the seat pan. I have similar stories with our kitchen counter stools and office chairs.
Adding to your current troubles with your current Phoenix design, there is NO foam at the edge of the platform step because that is where the two piece mattress folds. It's a flawed design for sure.
Get your bed platform flat (minus the minor bump if using a thin piano hinge) and having a consistent-thickness tri-fold foam mattress as you have planned, and I think you will have solved your bed troubles. The two seams of a tri-fold mattress just might be located where you'll never notice them. The few times I slept on our level dinette conversion with 3 cushion seams, I never felt them. You did mention that a firm mattress does not suit you, but I think a firm mattress would mask the seams better.
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I’m planning to attach whatever platform I come up with to the slide with a scissor hinge and swing it up when not needed.
Ah! A scissor hinge or piano hinge would assure your home made platform does not bounce around doing damage to itself or the world around it.
Ron,
Yea, meant to say piano hinge. I’ll need to understand how the floor of the slide is made to make sure I can screw into something solid. I’m planning to make the platform tomorrow.
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I’m planning to attach whatever platform I come up with to the slide with a scissor hinge and swing it up when not needed.
Ah! A scissor hinge or piano hinge would assure your home made platform does not bounce around doing damage to itself or the world around it.
Ron, Yea, meant to say piano hinge. I’ll need to understand how the floor of the slide is made to make sure I can screw into something solid. I’m planning to make the platform tomorrow.
2o2
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Prior to ordering our 2351D we went to the plant and took a tour of one. DW even laid on the bed and remarked how much she liked it. The bed is the reason we are upgrading as she has developed back problems. There was no variance in thickness. Guess what I'm suggesting is if there is any way to go back to the plant I'm sure they will rectify the issue. If that's not possible I would definitely call them and state the issue.
Garmp,
Everything is fabricated just right, the issue is the mattress. The floor of the slide is 4 1/4” above the stationary platform, but there is only about 3” of difference (or step) between the two mattress thicknesses causing the bottom section to be lower by that amount. I suppose 1“ of foam could be added to the bottom section, but the mattress is too firm for us and I just don’t care for the design. See the attached photos. The second photo is in travel mode.
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Hi Grandpa17, just a thought - my wife and I had some SERIOUS discomfort with the factory mattress and after researching various improvements we turned to
https://lovemymattress.com/
for a custom mattress. At their advice we had them make a coil-spring mattress rather than foam and it is remarkable, better than our very expensive home mattress. Since they manufacture in-house they said they can custom cut/design almost any shape, size, etc including hinged mattresses. They may be able to build you a custom mattress that eliminates the disparity in elevation AND give you the comfort level that fits your requirements.
Good luck, bad sleep makes everything worse.......
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Dogyard,
Thanks for the great information and suggestion. The bed was so bad for us I needed to come up with a quick solution but I will keep that source in mind for any future needs.
Grandpa17
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I have implemented my ideas for a better mattress in the 2351D and after spending a night on it my wife and I couldn’t be happier. With the stock mattress and design we were both waking up around 5:30 - 6:00 am because we were so sore. This morning we both slept in until 8:30 and for the first time in over a week didn’t have bad backaches.
The photos below show before and after. The first photo shows how we have it during the day to give space in the bedroom plus the platform is a nice place to sit while putting on shocks and shoes. The second photo shows the mattress partially folded. The mattress folds up easy and the sheet can stay on. When folded up it’s much more compact than the stock mattress. The third photo shows a completely FLAT and very comfortable bed! The last photo shows the stock mattress folded over with the slide in.
Originally i was planning to make a fully covered box platform but decided that the slatted support would look nicer and would be lighter. It weighs less than 20 lbs.
Overall I think it’s a big improvement from the factory configuration.
And by the way, Happy New Year to anyone reading this!
Can’t seem to get all of the photos to show... The before can be seen in a few posts prior to this one.
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Another thing I didn’t care for with the stock mattress is that the bottom 8 inches of the mattress is unsupported as shown in the first photo. The second photo shows my modification with the slide in. I plan to put a suction hook on each shelf and hold the support structure with bungee cords.
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Grandpa17
Nice mod on your bed. I am amazed at the talent PC owners show regarding wood mods. Your solution looks like it was made by the factory. Great work!
Ron S
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Thanks Ron! You know what they say about necessity... We are extremely pleased with the comfort. Two nights now without back aches!
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Hi Again Grandpa17
I have a few questions.
In your latest pictures, I see two black items. Is the one to the left, the sub woofer for the surround sound system? If so, is that a fixed position? What is the other black thing built into the storage compartment? Is it your furnace? If so, I thought Phoenix used a HWH/Furnace combo in all 2351Ds.
I see the bedroom TV. Does it face 90 degrees to the bed or is it set at an angle? Does it have an arm to aim it toward the bed.
Thanks!
Ron Dittmer
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Ron,
Yes the left black object is the sub-woofer bolted to the floor with L brackets. It hasn’t felt in the way at all. The second black object is the fuse panel. Yes, the 2351D uses a Truma Combi Eco Plus unit. The “Plus” refers to propane plus 2 electric heating elements which can be used in combination with propane. Using it set to gas plus electric the unit is extremely gas efficient. Hot water capacity is usable, but limited.
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And yes, the bedroom TV is mounted on a swing arm and can be pivoted almost 90 deg. It locks for travel. There is a DVD player in the adjoining cabinet. A very nice setup.
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Thank you!
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Grandpa17,
thanks for the great pics and info. I will definitely keep this in mind. And when we do pick up our new unit I will ask them if they had any complaints or concerns about the bed.
thanks again
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That appears to be a palatable solution 2o2.
Hope your backs feel much better now. Enjoy !
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Grandpa17,
thanks for the great pics and info. I will definitely keep this in mind. And when we do pick up our new unit I will ask them if they had any complaints or concerns about the bed.
thanks again
You’re welcome. You know of at least one, right?
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That appears to be a palatable solution 2o2.
Hope your backs feel much better now. Enjoy !
Thanks. It is very comfortable now and has completely eliminated our back aches.
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Hi, Grampa 17 -
My first time posting/asking questions so we’ll see how it goes...
Great post on your part as far as photos and explanation! In our situation it’s exactly what we need to know! My husband and I are seriously considering the 2351D. As a matter of fact, tomorrow may by our ‘D’ day, so to speak.😉
You mentioned that in your mod you were able to keep the sheet on the mattress when folding it up, as in photo #2. Am I correct in assuming that leaving the sheet on when folding it (as in photo#1) to bring the slide in is not possible? In other words, would all bedding have to come off to bring the slide in on travel days?
When we travel we move quite often so we were hoping to find a 25’ rig with a bed we didn’t have to make up every night and still have decent living space. From your experience, how do you feel this unit fits into that scenario overall?
Something else you said - you fold up the bed during the day “to give more space in the bedroom.” Is that because, if the bed is down/flat, the bathroom or back wall cabinets are difficult to access?
Assuming (correct me if I’m wrong) you and your wife both use the shower, may I get an opinion from each of you on the bathroom as far as shower size, as well as general roominess using the toilet and lavatory. My husband is 6’ 3”, 190#, and I am 5’ 7”, 120#. I’m sure I’d do okay in the shower, but concerned for hubby. The bathroom, overall, appears to be a little cramped...?
We rarely eat out when on the road, so a user-friendly galley is a must for us. Your thoughts welcome on that subject also.
Any, and all, observations, likes, dislikes you and your wife have on the 2351D would be appreciated.
Thanks for your help!
RMP’49
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The kitchen in the 2350, 2351, 2351D, 2551, 2552 and 3100 are the same with the exception of the pantry. Some have a pull out pantry, some do not. Some pantries are next to the stovetop, some are next to the couch.
Recent model years have a flip up range top cover instead of lift out panels but the standard counter space is the same. We use the flip up counter by the door as well as the pull out cutting board on the right side. Our sink cover was cut in half so we leave half in place so we can access the water while having that extra extension of counter space. We cook whatever we want. If we need a lot of work space, we put up our table (we have couch-no dinette).
Disclaimer: we have backpacked in the past and cooked on a tiny one burner stove balanced on a rock. Your perceptions of space needed may differ.
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Thanks for your input. It leads me to one question - how sturdy is the table when you eat off from it; does it wobble to the point of concern that it may tip over?
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Hi, Grampa 17 -
My first time posting/asking questions so we’ll see how it goes...
Great post on your part as far as photos and explanation! In our situation it’s exactly what we need to know! My husband and I are seriously considering the 2351D. As a matter of fact, tomorrow may by our ‘D’ day, so to speak.😉
You mentioned that in your mod you were able to keep the sheet on the mattress when folding it up, as in photo #2. Am I correct in assuming that leaving the sheet on when folding it (as in photo#1) to bring the slide in is not possible? In other words, would all bedding have to come off to bring the slide in on travel days?
When we travel we move quite often so we were hoping to find a 25’ rig with a bed we didn’t have to make up every night and still have decent living space. From your experience, how do you feel this unit fits into that scenario overall?
Something else you said - you fold up the bed during the day “to give more space in the bedroom.” Is that because, if the bed is down/flat, the bathroom or back wall cabinets are difficult to access?
Assuming (correct me if I’m wrong) you and your wife both use the shower, may I get an opinion from each of you on the bathroom as far as shower size, as well as general roominess using the toilet and lavatory. My husband is 6’ 3”, 190#, and I am 5’ 7”, 120#. I’m sure I’d do okay in the shower, but concerned for hubby. The bathroom, overall, appears to be a little cramped...?
We rarely eat out when on the road, so a user-friendly galley is a must for us. Your thoughts welcome on that subject also.
Any, and all, observations, likes, dislikes you and your wife have on the 2351D would be appreciated.
Thanks for your help!
RMP’49
RMP,
I’ll try to answer all of your questions.
Re: sheets I’ve posted so many photos I’m not sure exactly which two you are ferreting to, but assuming they are the last two, yes with the factory stock mattress you can leave the sheets on and fold the bottom half over. You can even leave a light blanket on and fold it over. With my mod you can leave the sheet on but we pull the light blanket off, fold it and toss the blanket and pillow on top of the folded mattress before flipping the wooden frame over.
Our travel scenario is the same as yours. It is unusual for us to stay at one location more than a couple days and like you we wanted as compact of a unit as possible. I can say that we are are very happy with the this floor plan. I’m not as tall as your husband, but we still wanted at least a queen bed. With either the stock mattress or my mod it takes maybe 2-3 minutes to setup or tear down the bed. As you probably know there were several things I didn’t like about the stock mattress, one of which is that the bottom 8 inches isn’t supported. It makes getting into bed, or sitting on the edge very annoying. Plus, the height issue was giving us really bad backaches....
Re: folding it during the day... it isn’t entirely necessary, but with the bed down it limits how far the bathroom door can open. For people with some thickness to them, like myself, it’s a bit of a tight squeeze. And as you mention it’s more difficult to access the back cabinets. My wife prefers the bed down so she can lay down during the day, so oftentimes we do leave the bed down all the time.
Re: the galley, everything 2 frazzled stated applies.. We’re like you and rarely eat out. We find the galley adequate - but we just make simple meals. The microwave, stove and fridge are very nice.
Re the bathroom: your husband will be fine in the shower girth wise. :-). I’m shorter and weigh about the same and I find it very usable. His height will be the biggest issue. If you order one be sure and get the extended height shower dome - which we have. The bathroom is one of my wife’s main concerns in a motor home and we both find it reasonably comfortable. Again your husbands height will be the main concern. There is a decent amount of space between the stool and the wall, but your husband might find it a bit confining.
As you may have read this is our eighth motor home, I spent many months deciding on this unit because I had very specific things I wanted. Like you I wanted a compact unit no more than 25 ft. I wanted a heavy-duty chassis and top-notch quality. I’ve told my wife many times that I am extremely pleased with the decision to get this particular unit. It’s very solid on the road, drives very nice and I’ve been extremely happy with the quality. Having said all of that, the PC units have the lowest ceiling height of all of the units I considered. With your husband’s height, if you haven’t already I recommend you visit any PC model you can find in person to see how he feels about the ceiling height.
If you buy a PC I highly recommend the Liquid Springs. They are an expensive option but they make a substantial difference in the ride. I also really appreciate the leveling jacks. We can pull in and be ready to relax in less than 10 minutes.
I hope this helps
Best regards.
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Thanks for your input. It leads me to one question - how sturdy is the table when you eat off from it; does it wobble to the point of concern that it may tip over?
We had developed the bad habit of eating on our laps before we ever bought the RV so we only used the Phoenix table a few times. When we used it, it was solid, no concerns on tipping.
We saw this table at a travel club reunion https://smile.amazon.com/Coleman-Pack-Away-Adjustable-Folding-Camping/dp/B002YXR766/ref=sr_1_2?crid=AN4T8P87GWGF&dchild=1&keywords=coleman+table+folding&qid=1578482636&sprefix=Coleman+table%2Caps%2C183&sr=8-2 and quickly ordered one. The Phoenix table is now in storage and this one straps right in to the same place in the wardrobe. We most often use half the folding table and it could be tipped if you aren't careful (more from knocking it with a hip when it is in use than just wobbling over.) It's narrow so we can keep it in front of the couch for eating or computer work and move it between the cab seats or flip it upside down on the bed to get it out of the way. We hooked the two halves together recently for game play and it was very solid.
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........may I get an opinion from each of you on the bathroom as far as shower size, as well as general roominess using the toilet and lavatory. My husband is 6’ 3”, 190#, and I am 5’ 7”, 120#. I’m sure I’d do okay in the shower, but concerned for hubby. The bathroom, overall, appears to be a little cramped...?
We rarely eat out when on the road, so a user-friendly galley is a must for us. Your thoughts welcome on that subject also.
Our 2007 2350 has the same bathroom and galley as a new 2350, 2351, and 2351D. Here is my input after owning our PC for nearly 13 years now.
You husband being 6'-3" tall, I cannot recommend any Phoenix Cruiser model. The bathroom will be the worst of his complaint, but even out on the open floor, he will never be able to stand up straight. If he wears a pair of hiking shoes, it gets worse yet. Back inside the bathroom, consider that the ceiling is lower there because the roof is domed, sloping downward to the sides. I am 5'-11" 180 pounds, and I do fine. I am fortunate to have a head of hair. With shoes on, I feel low hanging items like light fixtures and a/c unit. They gently move the hair on the top of my head. Add 4" to my height (to 6'-3") and I would have serious head clearance trouble.
Regarding the galley. As 2 Frazzled stated, the sink-stove base cabinet is a module, used in many different models. The basic design dates back 17 years or more with drawer changes introduced in 2007 that remain to this day, the right side drawers and pull-out cutting board are behind a cabinet door.
With our 2007 2350, some years ago I replaced the 5 small drawers and pull-out cutting board, with 3 full-width extra-deep drawers. I measured the before and after square inches of the drawers. I increased drawer storage by 85%, a very significant increase. You can read about the project by CLICKING HERE (http://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php/topic,1751.0.html) which includes pictures for visual clarity.
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Thanks y’all for the info! Much appreciated!
If I may, one more question - how do you like the Truma Combi system? We’ve heard there may be issues with the amount of hot water capacity. Read it was difficult to get enough hot water for one shower, let alone two. What has been your experience been?
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After owning a unit with a Truma AquaGo on-demand heater, we assumed anything named Truma would be ‘on-demand’. After speaking with a Truma customer service rep, here is what my husband learned: it is a tank-type water heater with a very small 2.75 gallon tank. The rep said that for a shower we need to put it on ‘boost’ for 1/2hr. prior to taking the shower. But we could only use the ‘boost’ setting twice in 1 hour.
They said ‘boost’ setting gives about 6 gallons of hot water.
However, the increased capacity is only due to the fact that you’ll use a greater mix of cold water during your shower. You still only have a 2.75 gallon tank!
An unknown is the flow rate of a PC shower head. If you assume 1.5 GPM, you are still only going to have 4 minutes of hot water available.
By the way, my husband knows a little about water usage - he owns a plumbing, heating, cooling business. After loving the Truma AquaGo On-Demand RV Water Heater, we see the Combi as a step backward, a step we do not wish to take.
If this info only raises more questions, my hubby would gladly attempt to answer them. Guess I answered my own question, and maybe shed some light on the situation for you. 😉
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After owning a unit with a Truma AquaGo on-demand heater, we assumed anything named Truma would be ‘on-demand’. After speaking with a Truma customer service rep, here is what my husband learned: it is a tank-type water heater with a very small 2.75 gallon tank. The rep said that for a shower we need to put it on ‘boost’ for 1/2hr. prior to taking the shower. But we could only use the ‘boost’ setting twice in 1 hour.
They said ‘boost’ setting gives about 6 gallons of hot water.
However, the increased capacity is only due to the fact that you’ll use a greater mix of cold water during your shower. You still only have a 2.75 gallon tank!
An unknown is the flow rate of a PC shower head. If you assume 1.5 GPM, you are still only going to have 4 minutes of hot water available.
By the way, my husband knows a little about water usage - he owns a plumbing, heating, cooling business. After loving the Truma AquaGo On-Demand RV Water Heater, we see the Combi as a step backward, a step we do not wish to take.
If this info only raises more questions, my hubby would gladly attempt to answer them. Guess I answered my own question, and maybe shed some light on the situation for you. 😉
Everything you have stated is exactly right. Having used it for about three weeks now and for quite a few showers I can say that it's not all that bad. We discovered by trial and error exactly what you stated. Put it on boost and wait 20-30 minutes then get in. If you wait too long it goes off of boost and the water starts cooling down. You won't take long hot showers with it, but after getting used to it we found that we could take back to back showers if we turned the flow off at the shower head while washing. On the air side it does a fantastic job of heating the coach. I kept it set at 68 degrees and we were very comfortable. With the electric option it is extremely efficient on gas. I filled the propane tank before leaving and after 3 weeks of showers and heating in mid 20's-40 degree evenings and a fair amount of driving with the fridge on gas it is still registering full. I even went out and checked the gauge on the tank to make sure I wasn't getting a false reading.
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After loving the Truma AquaGo On-Demand RV Water Heater, we see the Combi as a step backward, a step we do not wish to take.
I agree that compared to a Truma AquaGo On-Demand RV Water Heater, it would seem a step back. The primary reason for the Truma Combi is compactness. The only reason to use it is to save space. It is used primarily in Van conversions where space is extremely limited. PC told me that they didn't have the space in the 2351D to install a separate furnace and water heater so they used the Combi. After having used it for 3 weeks continually now, I am overall happy with it. I would certainly prefer an on-demand water heater, but I think it was a good decision on the part of PC to save the space on this floor plan. Also I am of the school of leaving the grey tank valve closed until practically full. With such small holding tanks on the 2351D if we took long showers I'd be dumping the grey tank every day. Now that we've figured out how to use it properly the small water tank isn't much of an issue. The main thing is to have a shutoff valve on the shower head.
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Grampa 17, all true! You sound extremely pleased with your rig all around. Bob White even mentioned the complimentary letter you sent to the company to express such. PC’s are truly a quality vehicle!
Im sure you’d agree that all rigs have pros and cons, and, when finding the right one for each person/couple, it comes down to which pro and which con to live with or reject. Unfortunately, for us the Truma Combi was a deal breaker. After hiking some days, we know we look forward to a reasonably (in RV terms) long, hot shower, for both of us, just before retiring for the evening. I guess we just need a little more pampering than you and yours do. 😉
Thank you so much for all your input. It was so valuable in helping us come to our decision!
Happy travels!
Blessings!
Rhonda
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RMP,
I agree with everything you said too. We came off a coach with on-demand water and it was great. For any coach where that is a viable option I would always choose an on-demand system. I just wouldn't want anyone considering a floor plan that requires a combi to rule that floor plan out on that basis only. Given what it's designed for it performs very good.