Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: ragoodsp on May 08, 2017, 09:30:25 am
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Last week i was speaking with a person at Freightliner Custom Chassis and we go into a discussion pertaining to the new SC-2 chassis that is is being manafactured in Gaffney, SC at the FCC plant now (the M-2's are made in Mexico but may be moved to Gaffney as well). The SC-2RV's are much lighter duty compared to the M-2's, SC-2RV has the 3000 Allison (M-2 has the 3200 Allison) and the SC-2RV has the ISB Cummins (M-2 uses the ISL-9 Cummins) but what is nice is the chassis is completely RV buildout ready with many very nice features that the Phoenix Cruiser folks and other manafacturers will really like....It was eluded to that Freightliner is anticipating perhaps the expected exit from the market of the Ford E-series and they want to fill the vacume with this new option? The SC-2RV would sure address the over weight issues that some E-450's are expieriencing these days. I am sure Kermit is working his majic to utilize this new chassis! Thanks, RG
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Man, Bob, that is fantastic news - a real answer to diesels in a smaller rig, but larger than the Sprinter...
Jack
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This size chassis would really allow for expanded Class C floorplans without having to deal with over weight issues. Class A sales are flat and Class C's are up and that is because people want the smaller coaches but do not want to give up the luxury aspects that the A's offer. just my two cents. Thanks, Ron
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Your post caught my curiosity so I searched the web for Freightliner SC-2 but couldn't find anything about it. Could you post a link with all the details from Freightliner?
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Wish I could Ron but I can not find anything either. There are several manafacturers (according to Freightliner) that are starting to use the chassis at this time...check out Renegade Valentia model, this is the first coach I have seen based on this chassis. Ron G.
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North Trail RV in FL. has a new Valentia and one of the photos shows the dash layout that has 12 blank switch plates that would all tie into Freightliners muitlplex wiring system that allows for the use of extensive 'smart switches". Looks like the chassis comes with the 3000 Allison and not the 2500. I would guess it is a much cheaper chassis compared to the M2 and therefore would help with the Class C price points?
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The SC chassis has been around in school bus application for a while but the RV designation is new. With the SC-2RV chassis you as owner can be a memeber of the Freightliner Custom Chassis Club thatofffers some unique services and benefits that one can not get with the M2 chassis that is manafactured under a different Feightliner subsidiary....
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The Renegade Valencia is this......a Super C chassis. Is this what you are talking about?
(https://cdn2.rvtrader.com/v1/media/58fb35672e14f634fd5673b5.jpg?width=1024&height=768&quality=70)
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Not exactly down sizing. The one in Fla is 38'.
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Ron, we would love a rig like that. I think but not positive you can get them down to a 34 foot
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I agree with you Tom. It redefines "Downsizing". I can't see it as a direct replacement for the E450. Just imagine a 2552 built on top of it.
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I was not implying a 2350 would be dropped on the SC2RV but I can see a nice 34' triple slide sitting on top of it! Expand your imagination a little! Thanks, Ron G.
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I was not implying a 2350 would be dropped on the SC2RV but I can see a nice 34' triple slide sitting on top of it! Expand your imagination a little! Thanks, Ron G.
Okay, I get it! :)
I thought you were suggesting the SC2RV was a replacement for the E450, for every PC currently in production. That is what had intrigued me.
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One can always count on PC forum members to jump right into the discussion with some candid opinions, that is why I like the forum so much! No one has the crystal ball to see what the future holds and again I was not implying that a Feightliner chassis was the direct replacement for the E-450 in 100% of the the applications it is utilized for but it certainly could be a replacement for the larger triple slide 29'-32 foot class C's that are really over weight before they are loaded with anything. If I was to venture a guess I can see the 20'-23' coaches being built on the Sprinter, Transit and Ram chassis exclusively, the 23' and up could utilize the F series and Ram 5500 with the 29' plus coaches utilizing the Feightliner SC-2RV. Ford initially said they would stop production of the E-450 in 2020, they are now saying as long as the demand is there they will continue production, one does not know what the bottom line "demand" really is? If we see another spike in fuel costs I am not sure how the V-10 is going to compete? At 71 MPH (no toad) with my ISL-9 Cummins I consistently get 10.7 on flat road, the ISB will get that or better. Just my two cents and that is probably all it is worth! Thanks, Ron
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I could imagine a 31' PC on this chassis with lighter suspension, single rear 22.5" wheels at lower tire pressure, and NO rear overhang to sag or swing or require chassis mods to enjoy driving, and would really love an air horn.
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I, too, was thinking (hoping) for something in the 2552 range of 25-27 ft.).... guess I'll stay (AND END!) with the Sprinter! And, Ron, sorry I called you Bob - been a long time!
Jack
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Ford did have a 2 year production run of an E550 in 2002-2003, specifications posted HERE (https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/non-html/e550BB02.pdf). It stood tall like a current day Quigley 4x4 conversion that Phoenix offers. The front axle was solid across like a dump truck, not an independent front suspension like we all have on our E350/E450. The heaviest PCs would benefit but I wonder if lesser PCs would break up from a terribly rough ride.
According to the specs, the front axle could handle 6000 pounds. The rear axle could handle a whopping 13,500 pounds, 2000 pounds more than my entire PC weighs when loaded up on a trip. The tires were bigger at 19.5 instead of our 16.0.
Here is a picture of an E550 cutaway. You can see the larger tires, it's taller stance, and the front axle bridged from wheel to wheel. It seemed to be a dump truck with a van cabin to hide it's identity.
(http://i.wheelsage.org/pictures/ford/e-series/autowp.ru_ford_e550_super_duty_cutaway_1.jpg)
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Wish I could Ron but I can not find anything either. There are several manafacturers (according to Freightliner) that are starting to use the chassis at this time...check out Renegade Valentia model, this is the first coach I have seen based on this chassis. Ron G.
The Freightliner chassis is the S2RV. You can find it at this link.
https://www.fcccrv.com/chassis/s2rv
The page is a little deceptive. It shows a picture of an air-ride IFS but if you read the specs it has a solid front and axle with leaf springs
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Ron, we would love a rig like that. I think but not positive you can get them down to a 34 foot
Freightliner offers the S2RV in Wheel Base Range: 179 279 so its conceivable that you could build a coach as short as a Phoenix Cruiser 3100 (30.5).
I derived this theoretical OAL length by looking at the wheelbase and OAL of a 36-foot super C, in this case the Dynamax DX3 (wheelbase 237 and OAL 425), and subtracting the shortest wheelbase length available on S2RV (179"). This difference was minus 58. So the theoretical OAL of a coach based on of the shortest S2RV chassis would be 30.5 feet provided you maintain the same front and rear overhang as on the DX3.
I used the specs of the DX3 (based on M2 chassis) because I could not find specs on the Renegade Valencia (based on S2RV chassis). Slight front overhang differences between M2 and S2RV may exist.
I am not sure how a 31 foot coach with 179" wheelbase would handle, but if you streched that wheelbase a bit, its obvious that a very well mannered coach could be produced from the S2RV in the 32-34 foot range
Sources
https://www.fcccrv.com/chassis/s2rv/frame-rail-construction/#s2rv-wheelbase
http://www.dynamaxcorp.com/product-details.aspx?LineID=299&Image=10335
http://www.rvbusiness.com/2017/03/fccc-touts-s2rv-chassis-at-work-truck-show/
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Folks:
Please note that my initial post was not meant to mean that all E-450/350 applications could be replaced with the Freightliner SC-2 chassis, I was implying that many of these longer Class C's (3100, 2950 PC's) that are coming out of the factory with 3 and 4 slides (other manufacturers) are maxed out before one puts one gal of water in the tank. Those are the situations where a heavy duty chassis is needed and the SC-2 with say 19.5" wheels would be a good application. A 2350 on a SC-2 would not be a good use of the chassis I fully realize! I am still hopeful that some day PC may consider a 33'-34' coach but with the sales of Class B's up nearly 27% last month I doubt PC will shake up their line to much....just my two cents. Thanks, Ron G.
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Folks:
Please note that my initial post was not meant to mean that all E-450/350 applications could be replaced with the Freightliner SC-2 chassis, I was implying that many of these longer Class C's (3100, 2950 PC's) that are coming out of the factory with 3 and 4 slides (other manufacturers) are maxed out before one puts one gal of water in the tank. Those are the situations where a heavy duty chassis is needed and the SC-2 with say 19.5" wheels would be a good application. A 2350 on a SC-2 would not be a good use of the chassis I fully realize! I am still hopeful that some day PC may consider a 33'-34' coach but with the sales of Class B's up nearly 27% last month I doubt PC will shake up their line to much....just my two cents. Thanks, Ron G.
If Phoenix USA builds and offers a 31-34 foot coach (without bunk over cab) on a S2RV platform, I'll buy it.
renotse
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RAGOODSP.....I've often wondered about many motorhomes being almost maxed out with very little left for pers stuff as well as water etc. I wonder how much each additional slide adds by average in weight.
I'd be willing to bet that many people would be in trouble if they had to go thru a weigh station.
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I pushed for that slide weight before we purchased. There is no definitive answer. They have changed slide vendors, there are different size slides and the furnishings make a difference in weight. All that said, I was given a really ballpark answer of about 1,000 pounds going from the 2552 to the 2910D or 3100. Again, different size coach, slides, different furnishings, and so on. After calculating water (we always carry some), gas, propane, food, clothing, tools, office equipment (since we were working half time from the rig in the beginning), people and so on... we bought the 2552. This won't be the right choice for everyone. We are full time when we are on the road and payload was far more important than space. With just the two of us, we're good. It gets crowded when we go up to three or four but we manage. The whole world is right outside our door.
We have never had our rig weighed.
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Regarding the weight of a slide out.
I recall back in 2007, Phoenix told me the "Added Weight" of the 2007 2350 slide out was roughly 400 pounds, which only had the jack knife sofa inside it. In 2010, the "Added Weight" increased to roughly 600 pounds when they included the fridge. That was around the same time Phoenix switched sofas, going to the inflating bed sofa. The numbers I'm sharing was a 2350 with and without the slide out. I have no idea what a jack knife sofa weighs, but our dinette weighs very little considering it's construction, so there could be more influence than just house-slide material.
The slide out mechanism and furniture changed between then and now, but I would imagine the weight is not much different.
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On my 3100 with the one and only slide offered I tipped the scales (fully loaded with H2O, fuel, two adults and one dog) within 900 lbs of max. GVW. Not to bad to be honest but if you were to add another slide or two and you can see where you would be. I worry about other manufacturers that offer 3-4 slides and then massive storage compartments in coaches reaching lengths of 31'10", that would push the coach way over GVW for sure and create a dangerous situation IMO. Thanks, RAG