Selling your 2350 with dinette? Want to buy used.

I have to support Jack in the thought the corner bed is questionable. We had a 2350 and could not sleep together in it (I'm not overly large but am a 6 foot, 210 pound guy who requires a lot of sleeping room). Peg couldn't sleep on the fold-out sofa comfortably either. Consequently, we went to a twin bed 2551/2552.

If PC had a 24-25 foot model with a walkaround double bed in the rear, that would definitely have been a very big consideration in our decision.

Thanks to both you and Jack for your input!

Both my wife and I really prefer to have a dinette, but if I were convinced the sofa offered a much more comfortable bed I might be persuaded to go that way.  IIRC, I saw a photo of the sofa on the PC website that had a caption indicating that it had an air mattress.  Is that the case?  If so, for how many years has PC used the air mattress with the sofa?  I'd prefer to avoid any sort of air mattress.  I've found that they aren't comfortable (regardless of brand or type) and there seem to be a large number of complaints about the ones installed in RVs (generally speaking) -- mostly that they tend to leak.

The sofa bed is larger which is definitely a plus, but if the dinette bed is comfortable, or can be made comfortable with a high quality memory foam topper then we'll likely stick with the dinette.

WRT the corner bed -- it's far from ideal, that's for sure.  In fact, as I may have mentioned above, we heard enough negative comments about them here and on other forums that we gave up on the 2350 (and a couple other corner bed designs we were considering) and decided we had to have a walk/shuffle around queen (in slide or not).  There are a couple coaches that are <25' long that have a queen size bed (well, RV 'queen' size anyway) but they will not work for us for a variety of reasons -- the LTV Unity U24IB ('island bed') and the WGO View Profile/Itasca Navion iQ with the queen in the rear slide are two of them.  Then there's the WGO Via 25Q (technically 25'5"), and the Fleetwood Jamboree 24R (25'2").  They all leave a lot to be desired in comparison to the PC 2350 though.

I'm a pretty big guy (6'2", 235) but I tend to lay in one position when sleeping.  I'm hoping that (at least initially) the corner bed will work for DW and I.  If not, she's ok with sleeping in the other bed as long as it is comfortable.

Buying an RV has been by far the most difficult and time-consuming purchase of my life.  There are so many considerations, variables, options, and compromises.

Sherman   

Keep in-mind the 2350 dimensions I am providing are from my 2007 model year.

Dinette
Bed dimensions:  71W x 36D (71W is with cushions removed, finished board to finished board)
Table dimensions: 29W x 34D
Leg room: 29.5W
Overall dimension of dinette: 73.5W x 37D
I am 5'-11" so it was a surprise to me to see the width matched my height.  The few times I slept on the dinette when sick, I guess I never slept like a soldier laying at attention.  It seemed to be plenty wide for me.

Shower
Just above the shower pan: 34W x 23D
Max to skylight dome: 73H
Keep in mind, the shower narrows as it gets higher due to the curved exterior wall.  The roof is crowned, so the shower ceiling is vaulted.  Looking at my shower, if PC-USA installed the plumbing on the opposite "outside" wall, there would be much more room to take a shower.  But that would put the plumbing in a sealed vacu-bonded wall, not a hollow interior wall.  If I were to order a new PC just for me, I would still inquire about doing that, and discuss any repercusions of it.  You might end up with a raised wall panel/channel for the two pipes to pass through.  I can see why they did it the way it is, given the plumbing is done before the exterior walls are installed.  But it would have been nice.

Thank you Ron, this is very helpful!

I'm sorry that I had to ask you to go to the trouble.  These measurements really should be readily available on the PC website.

If DW changes her mind and makes me sleep in the dinette bed, it looks like I may be a bit cramped.  :-(  The majority of people should have plenty of room though.

I thought I could stand up in the shower in Tom's 2350.  I must be mistaken -- maybe I was tilting my head down somewhat.  If 73" is the maximum height measured to the top of the skylight dome I wouldn't be able to stand up -- unless I've shrunk in my old age.  ;-)

That's too bad.  Not a deal killer but definitely a drawback.  At this point in the epic RV search process I've learned that I must be willing to compromise, and assign weight to the various features that DW and I are concerned about.

WRT model year, we are planning to purchase a 2350 on a Sprinter chassis which if I understand correctly means we will be looking at models from 2009 and up.  Hopefully the measurements you gave are the same (or greater) for the later model years.

It's hard to tell (for me anyway) which model years:

a) Offered the larger dinette (the one you have).
b) Offered the larger dinette in a slide (if any).

Thanks again for your help.

Sherman

I have a question about the single chair shown in Ron's photos (previous page) -- it's not obvious but I assume it's bolted to the floor in a secure manner and has a seat belt so that it is safe to use while traveling, is that true?  If so, is it possible to have a small table securely placed in front of it?  The reason I'm asking is that I'm thinking it would be nice to have a 'mini office' or workspace that can be used while underway.

Sherman --- Welcome to the "RV Purchase club", and difficulties associated with same!!!  As I've said, I've had 3 --2 in the last 2 years, and hopefully this is it!!!

The barrel chair in the my 2350 (2006) was bolted down with a seat belt.  The new "euro chairs" options (which are great) are on a ring which is secured to the floor with a clamp, and immovable when underway.  The idea of a table with the chair is a good one -- and not to confuse you further, that's why we went to the 2400 - 2 euro chairs, with a "cocktail" or work table between - is great for happy hour!

I too, researched the bed situation in other RVs, and, while somewhat appealing, the fit & finish in them turned me off. (Sounding like a broken record!)  With all 3 RVs the bed has been an issue - I mentioned the corner bed pproblems in the 2350, and with your size, I would be surprised if you and DW would be comfortable - like Bob (rmmpe).  With the twin beds, I kept hitting the wall/window, and Linda found the shorter bed a little short, and on a "boys" camping trip a friend (6'5", pushing 300 or so) fell out of the twin!  Now, PC has come up with a new style of beds for the Fords, (you can see in the brochure, or Ron's photos) but can't be installed in the Sprinter.  So, we got the air mattress --- what an experience!!!  There have been many threads on these things, but the short story is they are just uncomfortable. (I'm being kind!!)  so now we're going back to the older style, electric sofa bed, and using memory foam to get as much comfort as we can.  You're right, each style/size RV has some drawback -- however, I'm hoping this new arrangement is better than a tent! (As far as I'm concerned, the tent is more comfortable than the airmattress!)

Anyway, good luck in finding what you want -- as you know, I'm pretty damn close!!!

Best,
Jack 

Sherman --- Welcome to the "RV Purchase club", and difficulties associated with same!!!  As I've said, I've had 3 --2 in the last 2 years, and hopefully this is it!!!

The barrel chair in the my 2350 (2006) was bolted down with a seat belt.  The new "euro chairs" options (which are great) are on a ring which is secured to the floor with a clamp, and immovable when underway.  The idea of a table with the chair is a good one -- and not to confuse you further, that's why we went to the 2400 - 2 euro chairs, with a "cocktail" or work table between - is great for happy hour!

I too, researched the bed situation in other RVs, and, while somewhat appealing, the fit & finish in them turned me off. (Sounding like a broken record!)  With all 3 RVs the bed has been an issue - I mentioned the corner bed pproblems in the 2350, and with your size, I would be surprised if you and DW would be comfortable - like Bob (rmmpe).  With the twin beds, I kept hitting the wall/window, and Linda found the shorter bed a little short, and on a "boys" camping trip a friend (6'5", pushing 300 or so) fell out of the twin!  Now, PC has come up with a new style of beds for the Fords, (you can see in the brochure, or Ron's photos) but can't be installed in the Sprinter.  So, we got the air mattress --- what an experience!!!  There have been many threads on these things, but the short story is they are just uncomfortable. (I'm being kind!!)  so now we're going back to the older style, electric sofa bed, and using memory foam to get as much comfort as we can.  You're right, each style/size RV has some drawback -- however, I'm hoping this new arrangement is better than a tent! (As far as I'm concerned, the tent is more comfortable than the airmattress!)

Anyway, good luck in finding what you want -- as you know, I'm pretty damn close!!!

Best,
Jack 

 

Just kidding!

Let me see if I got this straight -- there are at least three (3) sofa beds:

1) A new style for the Ford-based PCs only.
2) An air mattress that was installed in both the Ford and Sprinter-based rigs, now Sprinter only.
3) The older style electric sofa bed, that presumably was installed in both the Ford and Sprinter-based PCs.

WRT #1 -- I thought the coaches were the same regardless of the chassis they're built on.  Why won't the new style fit in the Sprinter-based PC's?

WRT #2 -- From what I've read here and elsewhere, the air beds are very unpopular.  Any idea why PC and other RV mfrs continue to use them?

WRT #3 -- I take it this is your second choice (after #1) since you must use a memory foam topper to make it comfortable, is that right?  Which model years of the Sprinter-based 2350 used this sofa?  When did PC switch to the air mattress and why?

I take it the Euro chairs can be swiveled/rotated when stationary.  What makes them immovable while underway?  I like the fact that they have a table in between them -- that makes up for not having a dinette, and is probably more comfortable than most dinettes.

My wife would really like to have beds for 3 people (minimum) and preferably 4.  I don't envision us doing a lot of overnight trips with other people, but I suppose you never know.  In any case, that means that the 2400 is pretty much out.  Otherwise, it would be on the short list.  I like the more open floor plan and the shower with the tub base.  If the drawings in the PC brochure are to scale the fridge appears larger, and the wardrobe is clearly much larger.  There is also a pantry, which the 2350 doesn't have. 

If it weren't for the air mattress, I'd probably try to convince my wife to at least consider the 2400.  IMHO, the owner of a new RV should not have to go to the trouble and expense of replacing the sofa bed in order to be comfortable.

Even if the 2400 came with a comfortable sofa bed, they do have the drawback of having to be made every night and torn down every morning.  Not the end of the world, but having a fixed bed does have advantages -- perhaps not enough to replace the advantages of the 2400 that I mentioned above though.

Where do you plan to store the memory foam?

Thanks!
Sherman

Sherman,

How far are you from the town of Mendon, MA?  I ask because there is a former Phoenix USA dealer there that has a 2007 2350 and a 2008 2400 that you could size up.  I think both have slideouts.  Both were never titled and may still carry some sort of new warranties.  They might be considered demonstrators.  Click Here To Get To His Website.  Then Click On Inventory  We special ordered our 2350 from him in 2007.  Don Keller the one and only owner/employee is a great guy to talk with.  He might be over 80 years old and has strong morals, very good ethics.  He might give you a great deal on one of his 2 PCs.  I would not look at his advertised prices.  Just pay a visit and see if either fit you two perfectly.  If you are seriously interested, then try and work a deal with Don.  If you can't agree on a price, then you at least are better educated with PCs in general, and very much educated on those two specific models.

Your visit there could help you in making a decision on what to order direct from the factory, or maybe even drop the PC line altogether.

Sherman,

How far are you from the town of Mendon, MA?  I ask because there is a former Phoenix USA dealer there that has a 2007 2350 and a 2008 2400 that you could size up.  I think both have slideouts.  Both were never titled and may still carry some sort of new warranties.  They might be considered demonstrators.  Click Here To Get To His Website.  Then Click On Inventory  We special ordered our 2350 from him in 2007.  Don Keller the one and only owner/employee is a great guy to talk with.  He might be over 80 years old and has strong morals, very good ethics.  He might give you a great deal on one of his 2 PCs.  I would not look at his advertised prices.  Just pay a visit and see if either fit you two perfectly.  If you are seriously interested, then try and work a deal with Don.  If you can't agree on a price, then you at least are better educated with PCs in general, and very much educated on those two specific models.

Your visit there could help you in making a decision on what to order direct from the factory, or maybe even drop the PC line altogether.

Great suggestion Ron, thank you!

I just went to Don's site and realized that I'd been there before in my travels.  Both of those rigs look nice.  They have most of the options we're interested in.

I see they both have the electric sofa bed.  Is it safe to assume that bed is more comfortable than the newer air mattress that very few people seem to like (mentioned above)?  As I said, I'd be willing to consider the 2400 if the sofa bed is comfortable, or can at least be made comfortable with a memory foam topper.  One question I have for those who use memory foam is where they store it during the day.  Somewhere recently I read a post by someone who made up their own fitted pocket sheet for their memory foam.  That seems like a good idea -- anything to make setting up the bed easier.  I'm not sure DW would go for it though.  I like the two comfy looking chairs with the beautiful solid-wood table -- that may be better than a dinette.

If we get a 2350, we'd want the dinette since as far as I know there's no optional table with a chair that faces forward.

So...I suppose at this point I need to see if DW will go for the 2400.  If so, we might go up to MA and see Don.  We're still leaning heavily toward the Sprinter-based rigs, but as you say, at the very least we'd be better educated -- and who knows, he might make us an offer that we can't refuse.  ;-)

I'm still curious about the dinettes in the 2350 and 2400.  How many different dinettes are there?  The dinette bed in your 2007 2350 is a decent size (for most folks anyway).  Is the dinette you have available in a slide, or are all of the dinettes in slides the smaller ones?

Thanks,
Sherman

HI Sherman...

Ron's suggestion is a good one -- you might not take the sprinter afterall.  And, it'll give you a chance to compare both models.
You have the order correct on the sofa beds - I have no idea why they switched, but I would imagine the air mattress was supposed to be more comfortable than the electric.  The new style beds won't work in the sprinter, I am told, because the sprinter height is greater and when the new bed is extended it doesn't rest on the floor. I'm hopefully optimistic about this new modification -- we'll see.  and, you are right, it's a shame to have to modify something on a new rig, but the air mattress is awful...both to lie on and open/close. 

I'm outta here --- all the best,
Jack

HI Sherman...

Ron's suggestion is a good one -- you might not take the sprinter afterall.  And, it'll give you a chance to compare both models.
You have the order correct on the sofa beds - I have no idea why they switched, but I would imagine the air mattress was supposed to be more comfortable than the electric.  The new style beds won't work in the sprinter, I am told, because the sprinter height is greater and when the new bed is extended it doesn't rest on the floor. I'm hopefully optimistic about this new modification -- we'll see.  and, you are right, it's a shame to have to modify something on a new rig, but the air mattress is awful...both to lie on and open/close. 

I'm outta here --- all the best,
Jack

Thanks Jack!

You know, I really wish PC would make brochures, specs, and info for previous models available on their website.  As it is, I'm having a hard time determining which dinettes, sofas, chairs, etc, are/were available in the various model year 2350 and 2400 coaches on the two chassis (Ford and Sprinter).

Having that info would make it much easier for me to make a decision.  I realize that PC is primarily interested in selling new rigs but they do sell used as well.  Regardless of where we buy, even if we buy a used PC it will likely help them because from what I've read here and elsewhere, PC owners generally stick with PC -- they often sell one model and buy another.

If anyone can tell me where I can find comprehensive info on the 2350 and 2400 on both chassis I would very much appreciate it.

Thanks again,
Sherman

Sherman, I emailed you a TON of data, what I have on some previous PC model years, and Chassis years as well.

51MB in all.  I hope your email server can handle it.  Let me know if you get 7 emails from me.  The first email of the 2007 PC brochure by itself can be deleted.  I later saw I had all 6 sheets in one PDF file so I resent it along with the 2011 brochure.

Oh boy, the 2009 Brochure just bouced back because it is 16.4MB, more than I am allowed to send from here.  Compressed, it is still too big.  Sorry about that.

So you should get 5 good emails with 44MB of chassis and PC data.

Sherman, I emailed you a TON of data, what I have on some previous PC model years, and Chassis years as well.

51MB in all.  I hope your email server can handle it.  Let me know if you get 7 emails from me.  The first email of the 2007 PC brochure by itself can be deleted.  I later saw I had all 6 sheets in one PDF file so I resent it along with the 2011 brochure.

Oh boy, the 2009 Brochure just bouced back because it is 16.4MB, more than I am allowed to send from here.  Compressed, it is still too big.  Sorry about that.

So you should get 5 good emails with 44MB of chassis and PC data.

That's wonderful Ron, thank you so much!

I just sent you a couple replies with questions re: the Sani-Con system (200 feet vs. 20 feet discrepancy) and the "suggested retail pricing".

I really appreciate you going to all of the trouble to send all of that to me. 

Is there any way it could be posted here?  Is there a reference section or something?

It figures that the 2009 brochure would bounce back.  That's one that I'm very interested in.  Do you think if you sent it to my Gmail address it would go through?  Or perhaps we could use Box.net?  I have 50GB of free storage there, but I've never set up a file for others to upload to.  First time for everything I guess...  ;-)

We're still leaning toward the Sprinter and IIRC you said that 2009 was the first year PC used the Sprinter so that would be a good choice for us -- relatively new but old enough to hopefully have some depreciation -- and then immediately stop depreciating after we buy it.  ;-)  Of course we could end up with a 2009 on a E-350 also.

I can see why you have such a high "helpful" rating Ron, thanks again for your effort.  You should bill PC for your time!

Sherman

DW and I seem to have things narrowed down.

The 2400 is still out -- she wants a rig that sleeps at least 3, preferably 4.

She also wants a slide.

So...we're still focused on the 2350 on the Sprinter chassis (unless we find one on a E-350 for a fire sale price).

The only major item we have left to determine is sofa or dinette?  We'd prefer a dinette, but we need the larger dinette (like Ron has in his 2007 2350) for the extra bed, and I don't think it is available with a slide.  If the only dinette available with a slide is the smaller one, then we'll have to go with the sofa.

Can anyone tell me if the larger dinette is/was available in a slide?

If not, then I gather from the posts above that we'd want to avoid the air mattress at all costs and look for the electric sofa bed.  In which model year did PC switch to the air mattress?

Question re: the electric sofa -- can it be operated manually in the event of a mechanical or electrical failure?

Once the dinette/sofa bed question has been decided, then all that's left (I think) is to look at the list of available options, make a list of those we're interested in, and separate those items into two groups -- those that can be added at any time, and those that must be installed during the factory assembly process.

Thanks!
Sherman

Let me make one suggestion.  We have a 2006 PC 2551 with the electric sofa in a slide out.  It is a passably comfortable seat and bed, but not outstanding in either position.  You could probably have any RV sofa installed in a new unit that will fit and there are a lot of sofa beds in the market place.  You might want to see what's out there and broaden your choices.

Jerry

Jerry has a good point -- I was going to suggest the same -- if you want to sleep 3 or 4, I really don't think the 2350 or 2400 is for you, but you will have to see for yourself....the 2551, or 2552 are great rigs ----

The electric sofa does not have a manual back up, but it is controlled by a rocker switch, and wires can be easily reversed or jumped if it fails. I carried, and still have, a spare, since I did get caught in our first experience with the 2350 - the switch failed with the sofa extended -learned a lesson pretty quick!  .  Also, I think they are using a heaver duty switch in current models.
Jack

Sherman,

I emailed you the pdf of the 2009 brochure in 3 separate sections.  You can reassemble it back into one brochure on your computer.

It s an 11 page brochure.  For some reason pages 10 and 11 are massively MB'd compared to pages 1 thru 9.  I tried to reduce them, but did not have any luck yet.

To the general community, if you want a copy of the 2007, 2009, or 2011 brochures in pdf, give me your email through my profile and I'll email them to you as well.