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Another Leaking PC!!

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jhobbs

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Another Leaking PC!!
« on: November 11, 2020, 10:05:12 am »
Well, 2 months into owning my PC.  I have taken it on 2 trips where I have used it as a travel vehicle to a cabin and back.  I have not stayed it it yet, used the appliances, shower, etc.  On this second trip, my PC saw it's first rain shower.  Not a heavy rain, probably around 1/2 inch with blowing winds.  The next day my wife was treated to a saturated passenger seat.  Water was still dripping from above. The bottom of the cabinet was saturated, and the ceiling inside the cabinet was saturated.  We are extremely unhappy.  We spend this much money, and it leaks with the first rain?  I was not happy with the other issues I have come across, but but I have fixed or accepted them since they were not as serious (or planned to have them looked at, at a later time). 

Now i'm scared what other places may leak.  It has not been rained on with the slide out.  And what if the wind blows from a different direction?

I contacted Campers Inn, and so far all they have said is that they will get us with PC and these things can be fixed under warranty.  They are not willing to take the RV back or work out anything with me.  They sold me a defective RV, in my opinion, they should bear some responsibility.

I guess it is my fault.  I was caught up in how good the PCs look.  I failed to do the research and read the forums and see all the leaking issues.  I never saw the forums on the website under owner resources.  I was not an owner, so I never bothered to look under that section.

To anyone looking to buy a PC, please take my warning.  Also, read through all the previous posts and you will see leaks are a common issue.  I am proof it still happens on current models.

To Phoenix Cruiser.  If you read this, please do not hold this post against me if I get this repaired under warranty.  I am sorry, I am not trying to hurt your business, I am just being honest.  These leaks really should not be happening.  With such a history of leaks, you really need to come up with a solution for this.


Jeff
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Another Leaking PC!!
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2020, 10:34:12 am »
Hi Jeff,

I am sorry you are dealing with this.

I have been on this forum since it's inception in January 2009.  Water intrusion has not been a common discussion until in more recent years.  I can't say for certain, but the increase in new-rig water troubles seems to be coinciding with the selling of the company from Kermit Fisher to the two current owners.

There are surely exceptions, but most purchased-new PC water leaks discussed are related to the slide outs and the electric awning.  A few years ago, Phoenix switched slide-out mechanisms, a timely suspicion.

As PCs are getting older, more discussions come up with older slide-outs taking in water.  I assume that is related to the wear and tear and the age of the gaskets and such.

I hope you find your water leaks, and done so in a hurry.  If I were you, I would try to locate the source and band-aid it temporarily with a water proof tape until it can be addressed properly at Campers-Inn.

I stopped my aggressive promotion of the Phoenix Cruiser on other RV forums since I noticed a pattern of complaints from new PC owners these past few years.  I still think it's a better than average rig and still promote it, but not nearly with the same passion.  Something changed there at Phoenix for the worse.  I hope they figure it out and fix their quality problems quickly.  It's a pattern of complaints like yours that can ruin a company's reputation for quality, in short time.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 10:40:10 am by Ron Dittmer »
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Joseph

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Re: Another Leaking PC!!
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2020, 10:54:38 am »
Ron, we have all seen many come here asking for ideas when buying a new or used from a dealer . What features etc. I’ve also read on other forums where some have demanded a leak test prior to accepting the unit.

Just throwing an idea out there. A leak test is about $100 which isn’t much added to the cost of the purchase. I think I’d recommend to anyone buying that the dealer completes a leak test. If no leaks are found the buyer pays for the test; if leaks are found the leak test  and needed repairs are covered prior to delivery.  It’s a fair compromise that would be unreasonable for any dealer to deny.  It’s an approach  I think I will take  should I ever buy another MH of any brand.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 10:56:54 am by Joseph »
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Phil Grennan

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Re: Another Leaking PC!!
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2020, 12:25:00 pm »
My 3100 is in the production line - I will ask them how they ensure there are no leaks and to see it when I go pick it up.  I don't want to drive across the country and then have an issue.
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Joseph

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Re: Another Leaking PC!!
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2020, 12:35:07 pm »
Phil, I can’t imagine them not having a leak test system of some kind.  They could have their own design I imagine or the commercially available unit.
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rvrunner

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Re: Another Leaking PC!!
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2020, 01:39:40 pm »
My previous 2 rv's were Winnebago's, there quality isn't as good as it once was, how ever, every Winnebago is run through Big Bertha. it's a power washer that covers the whole motorhome and is equivalent to a 2 inch rain. Winnebago's have there share of problems but it's rare to fine one that leaks.
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donc13

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Re: Another Leaking PC!!
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2020, 02:19:03 pm »
Unless something changed, there is no leak-test facility at PC.

As to the actual leak, one of three things.

Bad caulk between the fiberglass front cap and the metal cab.
Bad caulk where the TV antenna wire comes into the front cap.
Bad seal on the passenger side marker light and the front cap

All of which are very easy to fix and Campers Inn should be able to quickly do at their facility.

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donc13

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Re: Another Leaking PC!!
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2020, 02:22:20 pm »
Quote from: rvrunner on November 11, 2020, 01:39:40 pm
My previous 2 rv's were Winnebago's, there quality isn't as good as it once was, how ever, every Winnebago is run through Big Bertha. it's a power washer that covers the whole motorhome and is equivalent to a 2 inch rain. Winnebago's have there share of problems but it's rare to fine one that leaks.

My 2000 Winnebago Minni leaked like a seive.   Since it wasn't discovered for 6 months (Colorado get very little rain) Winnebago refused to cover the repairs because I didn't "have the seals checked" within 6 months of purchase and every 6 months after.

No idea if Big Bertha existed or was used then.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 02:26:16 pm by donc13 »
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jhobbs

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Re: Another Leaking PC!!
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2020, 04:46:17 pm »
Quote from: donc13 on November 11, 2020, 02:19:03 pm
Unless something changed, there is no leak-test facility at PC.

As to the actual leak, one of three things.

Bad caulk between the fiberglass front cap and the metal cab.
Bad caulk where the TV antenna wire comes into the front cap.
Bad seal on the passenger side marker light and the front cap

All of which are very easy to fix and Campers Inn should be able to quickly do at their facility.

I've done all the re-caulking on my previous RVs, and I live half way across the country from Campers Inn, so I can do it if I see an issue.  I haven't had a chance to get up there since I got back.  I'll check as soon as I can.  I would expect the caulk to stay on longer than that, or whoever caulked it to not miss anything.

Jeff
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Sarz272000

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Re: Another Leaking PC!!
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2020, 06:45:02 pm »
Quote from: donc13 on November 11, 2020, 02:19:03 pm
Unless something changed, there is no leak-test facility at PC.

As to the actual leak, one of three things.

Bad caulk between the fiberglass front cap and the metal cab.
Bad caulk where the TV antenna wire comes into the front cap.
Bad seal on the passenger side marker light and the front cap

All of which are very easy to fix and Campers Inn should be able to quickly do at their facility.


I agree with donc13.  Those are the areas of concern.  I would also suggest you call the factory and talk to someone about the leaks to get their input.  They may have specific suggestions for you or could work with Campers Inn to resolve.

I know you know better but, just a reminder for others dont chalk with silicone caulk.  Use Dicor self leveling sealant for roof/horizontal areas.  On vertical surfaces I prefer 3M–4000 UV Polyether Adhesive Sealant, Black.  I push the 3M sealant along and it makes nice bead. 

Dont get discouraged.  Many more fun days to come.

Ron S
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jhobbs

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Re: Another Leaking PC!!
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2020, 08:13:31 am »
Quote from: Sarz272000 on November 11, 2020, 06:45:02 pm
Quote from: donc13 on November 11, 2020, 02:19:03 pm
Unless something changed, there is no leak-test facility at PC.

As to the actual leak, one of three things.

Bad caulk between the fiberglass front cap and the metal cab.
Bad caulk where the TV antenna wire comes into the front cap.
Bad seal on the passenger side marker light and the front cap

All of which are very easy to fix and Campers Inn should be able to quickly do at their facility.


I agree with donc13.  Those are the areas of concern.  I would also suggest you call the factory and talk to someone about the leaks to get their input.  They may have specific suggestions for you or could work with Campers Inn to resolve.

I know you know better but, just a reminder for others dont chalk with silicone caulk.  Use Dicor self leveling sealant for roof/horizontal areas.  On vertical surfaces I prefer 3M–4000 UV Polyether Adhesive Sealant, Black.  I push the 3M sealant along and it makes nice bead. 

Dont get discouraged.  Many more fun days to come.

Ron S

The caulk on the seam between the fiberglass cap and the roof is painted over.  That appears to be cauld, not self leveling sealant.  Is that correct?  The caulk there has separated, and most likely the location of the leak. It is about 6- inches from the edge of the roof.  it also looks like it is dented in a bit (so does the other side).  Has anyone else seen this before?  Not sure if that is normal or not. I will attach a pic.

I also inspected the clearance lights, and many of them are missing caulk along the top.  I will recaulk those.

Thanks for the suggestions and help.

Jeff
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Sarz272000

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Re: Another Leaking PC!!
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2020, 08:30:19 am »
“The caulk on the seam between the fiberglass cap and the roof is painted over. “

Not sure what type of chalk it is.  I sealed that whole seam across the roof with self leveling dicor.  I put it on thick because I noticed the roof in one area was flexible, per design, and I thought a thin sealant bead would break over a short time.  I have driven several hundred miles and the bead is still intact.

Use dicor on the clearance lights also.  I cannot comment on the dent.  If there is no separation it should be good.   A call to the factory may help.

Ron S

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Engineerlt

Re: Another Leaking PC!!
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2020, 12:25:10 pm »
Sorry to hear about your new PC leaking. I purchased my PC used just under 2 years old. I have had leaks ever since I owned it.  I am on the down hill slope now. I just went through tropical storm eta and found only 4 leaks.....
1.)  The window above the drivers side bed. I had a similar leak on the window above the sink, it leaks in from the top corners where the aluminum mounting rail is glued to the glass.  So you have to remove the window and the caulk up the ends; that takes care of the issue. Note: This is a window manufacturer issue not PC's...It was installed correctly.
2.) The clearance light in the middle on the front cap. Can someone please tell me why they need a 7/8" hole for 2ea 18 gauge wires? Then its mounted on the center ridge so it doesn't sit flat against the fiberglass. They could have made the mold flat in that spot just for the light. So I removed it cleaned everything up and used a bunch of butyl tape to bed the light and then cap sealed it with Geo Cell Pro Flex clear. I think they should omit this light from the build, I am 5'10" and its a stretch on the ladder to reach.
3.) Atwood water heater  leak around the mounting screws. Just went in and calked the heads of the screws and around the unit.  Was going to pull it out but decided to give this a try instead.
4.) The forward awning mounting arm/bracket that runs vertical. This is the worst of all the leaks I have ever had. I spent half the night during the storm baby sitting this one. I still haven't repaired it, because I ran out of Geocell Pro Flex clear. I am going to have to move the coach out of its parking spot beside the house into the driveway, extend the awning, remove the mounting bolts/screws and seal everything up. I bet that I find an empty hole where they made a mistake and had to move the awning.  I have found this issue on the 2 pullout window awnings (slide window and drivers rear window), slide topper mounting brackets and the spring loaded compartment door latches.

Don't get me wrong even after all this I still like the coach, I may be a little nuts but the layout is great and most of the materials are decent compared to others. Its the attention to detail that is getting PC negative feedback. Whoever is on the floor managing needs to clutch in and do a better job at quality control. 
« Last Edit: November 13, 2020, 12:28:29 pm by Engineerlt »
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donc13

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Re: Another Leaking PC!!
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2020, 12:38:37 pm »
Unfortunately, the marker lights are a federal requirement, cannot eliminate any of them.

Boo!
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Engineerlt

Re: Another Leaking PC!!
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2020, 01:55:07 pm »
I just learned something, 49 CFR Sec 393.11 says you are correct....  the 3 lights in the center are required. Still wish PC would make the mold flat in the area of the center light so it would seal properly to the front cap, and not use a 7/8 inch hole saw.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2020, 02:07:55 pm by Engineerlt »
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