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New owner question: Heaters - dash switch

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mikea

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New owner question: Heaters - dash switch
« on: March 08, 2020, 10:49:18 pm »
I'll beg your patience with two newbie questions, after I couldn't find information in the manuals:

1) The thermostat has the Furnace and Heat Strip modes.  We did spend a night in the PC so I figured out that the furnace is forced air and may comes through the air conditioner?
I thought that I could choose both furnace and heat strip but apparently it's one or the other on the thermostat and apparently the heat strip sends heat out of the vents under the right bed?

Can somebody clarify that?

2) Mine has an unlabeled white rocker switch on the left side of the cab dash panel.  What does that control?
(I'll post a picture if needed.)

TIA!

--Mike

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donc13

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Re: New owner question: Heaters - dash switch
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2020, 11:35:44 pm »
The furnace is the under bed heater, it runs from propane and is cycled off/on to maintain temp. It's fairly loud and has typically 3 heat registers used by it.   One in the bathroom, one under the passenger side bed and the 3rd bottom of the sink pantry.

The white switch is a safety in case you run down the engine battery.  If so, holding the switch closed, will use your house batterys to try to recharge the engine battery via the coach batterys.   

Heat strip is part of the a/c unit. It comes out the a/c unit same place a/c air  comes out.  Of course it requires you be plugged in or on your generator, as it uses 120v electricity to provide the heat.

Don
« Last Edit: March 09, 2020, 09:27:56 am by donc13 »
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2 Lucky

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Re: New owner question: Heaters - dash switch
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2020, 08:46:43 am »
Wow...is that information really not in the Manual? What all else is not in the Manual?
This is 2020... there should be manuals online. These should cover everything PC knows about each model. There should also be a wiring diagram even if only generic.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2020, 08:52:06 am by 2 Lucky »
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mikea

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Re: New owner question: Heaters - dash switch
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2020, 02:23:57 pm »
The furnace is the under bed heater, it runs from propane and is cycled off/on to maintain temp. It's fairly loud and has typically 3 heat registers used by it.   One in the bathroom, one under the passenger side bed and the 3rd bottom of the sink pantry.

The white switch is a safety in case you run down the engine battery.  If so, holding the switch closed, will use your house batterys to try to recharge the engine battery via the coach batterys.   

Heat strip is part of the a/c unit. It comes out the a/c unit same place a/c air  comes out.  Of course it requires you be plugged in or on your generator, as it uses 120v electricity to provide the heat.

Don

Thanks, Don!

On my older MH it said that the optional heat in the A/C was intended strictly for getting rid of the morning chill.  I'm pretty sure I settled on the furnace for the night.

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mikea

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Re: New owner question: Heaters - dash switch
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2020, 02:30:27 pm »
Wow...is that information really not in the Manual? What all else is not in the Manual?
This is 2020... there should be manuals online. These should cover everything PC knows about each model. There should also be a wiring diagram even if only generic.

There is no Phoenix Cruiser owners manual as far as I can see - only manuals for the appliances and systems.
I read the manual for the Dometic thermostat but didn't  understand which system was controlled by the two heat choices.

Since there is a delay for thermostat turning each on or off I got confused on how it was responding to my settings.

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Volkemon

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Re: New owner question: Heaters - dash switch
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2020, 03:13:51 pm »


On my older MH it said that the optional heat in the A/C was intended strictly for getting rid of the morning chill.  I'm pretty sure I settled on the furnace for the night.

The heat strip in the AC is a high power draw, probably pretty close in amp draw to the compressor that is used to cool the air.

If you are parked hooked up to shore power, I would use it and save the LP.

If you are on generator, I would use the furnace.

Found this on another thread, might be helpful:

My "Dometic" Briskaire Roof Ducted Air Conditioner 13500 btu draws

960 watts in cooling mode with low fan, or 8.7 amps.
 Here are some other measurements from it.
222 watts fan on low no heat
250 watts fan on high no heat
1408 watts heat strip on with fan set to low
1422 watts heat strip on with fan set to high

Maybe a different model, but all have similar 'guts'. You see the heat strip pulls more than the A/C!
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donc13

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Re: New owner question: Heaters - dash switch
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2020, 04:47:30 pm »
The furnace is the under bed heater, it runs from propane and is cycled off/on to maintain temp. It's fairly loud and has typically 3 heat registers used by it.   One in the bathroom, one under the passenger side bed and the 3rd bottom of the sink pantry.

The white switch is a safety in case you run down the engine battery.  If so, holding the switch closed, will use your house batterys to try to recharge the engine battery via the coach batterys.   

Heat strip is part of the a/c unit. It comes out the a/c unit same place a/c air  comes out.  Of course it requires you be plugged in or on your generator, as it uses 120v electricity to provide the heat.

Don

Thanks, Don!

On my older MH it said that the optional heat in the A/C was intended strictly for getting rid of the morning chill.  I'm pretty sure I settled on the furnace for the night.

I have used the heat strip (without the furnace obviously) down to about 30 degrees.   At times, I may also plug in a Polonis Disc Furnace (ceramic heater) in the front facing rearward to warm the kitchen area.   Especially when we used to take out cat with us.

It's not toasty inside but certainly not "cold" or "icy" and just perfect in bed with the blanket.
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2 Frazzled

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Re: New owner question: Heaters - dash switch
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2020, 08:21:44 am »
We also use heat strip and space heater when hooked up. Since we try not to camp in frigid zones (not always successfully), we seldom use the propane furnace. However, on really chilly mornings when we're boondocking - a quick blast from the furnace before we get out of bed is pure luxury!
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2 Lucky

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Re: New owner question: Heaters - dash switch
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2020, 01:22:11 pm »
Since we're on the subject of comfort heat sources, when we bought our coach it had a propane quick disconnect fitting plumbed to under the fridge in the slideout. As there was also a small RV approved propane space heater in the under couch storage drawer, I deduced them to be made for each other. The beauty of this type of heater is there is no electricity needed, great for our usual boondocking.

Worried about CO in an enclosed space, I tested the unit overnight (unoccupied) and added 2 plugin CO detectors, one in the bath and one in the cab in addition to the installed coach detector. None of them activated in the 12 hours I left the heater on. But of course there were no people consuming oxygen either. It did stay nicely warm.

Now the questions:
1.    If the cab dash vents are on the vent (outside air) position and left open when turning off the key, do they stay open thereby providing enough combustion air?
2.   Has anyone had experience with this type of heater and (lived to tell about it?)
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donc13

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Re: New owner question: Heaters - dash switch
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2020, 04:47:06 pm »
Catalytic propane heaters DO need to be vented, not because of CO gas, but because they need oxygen to operate.

Yes, the dash air vents, if open, stay open with the engine and ignition off.  You could also leave a window open (a bit) or a roof vent.  But more than likely, just "normal" leakage in an RV should be fine.  After all, RV's are nowhere airtight.

Camping World sells that model, their website has descriptions and customer reviews on it.

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Ron Dittmer

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Re: New owner question: Heaters - dash switch
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2020, 11:26:24 pm »
After all, RV's are nowhere airtight.
Speak for yourself.  roflol

In all seriousness, without a slide-out, our PC is quite air tight.  If we used a space heater that consumes oxygen, I would surely open our bathroom roof vent which is as far from the dash board vents as can be.  Heat rises which encourages the chimney effect, hence the bathroom roof vent for adequate air circulation.  I would open it just a few inches.  Opening it all the way is surely too much.
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donc13

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Re: New owner question: Heaters - dash switch
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2020, 02:55:29 pm »
After all, RV's are nowhere airtight.
Speak for yourself.  roflol

In all seriousness, without a slide-out, our PC is quite air tight.  If we used a space heater that consumes oxygen, I would surely open our bathroom roof vent which is as far from the dash board vents as can be.  Heat rises which encourages the chimney effect, hence the bathroom roof vent for adequate air circulation.  I would open it just a few inches.  Opening it all the way is surely too much.

Well, in reality.. Yes, RV's with slides leak more than those without slides.

BUT (There's always a but...)

Just in the floor itself, there are gaps around where the Grey and black tank drains are.  Where 120v wiring goes into and out of the walls.  Where the 12v comes up thru the floor boards to feed the power distribution panel and charge the house batteries and so forth.

Lots more places.

Yes, PC and most RV manufacturers do spray foam around those openings.  That doesn't make them airtight.

In fact, in my 2015 PC, the 12v cables come up into the interior via short pieces of conduit that extend about 4" under the floor to about 2" into (in our case) the under bed mechanical/electrical area.   Those conduit are open on both ends, no spray foam or anything else.

Anyway.. Just say in.. RV's aren't airtight.
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Re: New owner question: Heaters - dash switch
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2020, 03:28:04 pm »
Donc13, you echo my sentiments. I tried a blower door test for leak finding, using the coach door. Even with the grill under the windshield covered in plastic, you could open the front doors easily. 

Airtight like a mobsters alibi.  :lol
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dickreid1

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Re: New owner question: Heaters - dash switch
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2020, 10:20:54 am »
Just a caution about the dash switch... do not use it to try to start the engine.  Phoenix warns that the gauge of wire cannot carry the intense current.  Fire hazard. 
My experience with using the dash switch to pump some charge into the starting battery has been poor.  I now carry a vary long jumper cable to start the engine directly from the coach batteries.

Our initial experience with a heat strip was that it is noisy and mucho cold air before the warm air starts.  Have not used it since. 
Instead we use a quiet electric heater almost exclusively. 
The gas heater is very strong so we rarely have used it.  I note that there were plastic bits in the ducts. On first use the gas and smoke produced forced to bail out for an hour or more until the plastic completely burned and the fumes dissipated.

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Volkemon

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Re: New owner question: Heaters - dash switch
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2020, 12:00:31 pm »
Just a caution about the dash switch... do not use it to try to start the engine.  Phoenix warns that the gauge of wire cannot carry the intense current.  Fire hazard. 


 :beg Surely they (PC)  put a current limiting device in line with the wire that is appropriate for the wire used?

 I dont have the dash switch in my old 2007, the coach batteries were set up to be charged whenever the engine is running, and there is a 20A self resetting breaker in line. If I wanted, it would be easy to put a momentary switch in the dash, and be able to turn the relay on manually when desired to link the batteries. I would still be protected by the 20A breaker either way.

Using this handy chart ( https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/amps-wire-gauge-d_730.html ) Lets make some assumptions... the wire run is 15 feet, and they used 10 gauge. (My camper has 10Ga, and is probably a little over 15' long)  That would show a max current carry of 20 Amps.   All you need to do is put one of these in line:



(yes, it says 05A... but a 20A or 30A looks the same)

Less than $5 from eTrailer.  https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories-and-Parts/Pollak/PK54530.html?feed=npn&gclid=Cj0KCQjwu6fzBRC6ARIsAJUwa2RAf96aVppGf-MICVyRwSdEVxVcLnIcn_Ebp36e-Ca1SHr8A1E3LkAaAtrlEALw_wcB


It seems odd to me that PC would warn of a KNOWN fire hazard, and rely on every operator passing that knowledge on, instead of putting in a $5 part. And thats for a 30A breaker, to be super safe you could put in a 20A. Now no matter what the operator does, or if the switch malfunctions in the closed position  :-[... you are protected.  And it resets after a short period, so no looking for fuses. Sure, if you trip it many times, it may blow out and not reset. Better to replace that breaker than a burnt wire (and its corollary damage!)

I hope I misunderstood, but if not, consider putting a breaker in line. I cannot fathom why PC would not have done so.  (WH) In today's litigious society,  it sure looks like a lawsuit if a camper caught on fire from that.

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