Oops I Broke Our Dinette Table

Just trying to lift the table out from the two poles, the table broke in two.  I glued and clamped it back together and reinforced the slab in hopes the table will outlast the rest of the RV.

Here is the table after the repair.  The two broken pieces glued back together can be seen but is acceptable to us.


Here are the two reinforcements.  I routered soft radius edges all around for friendly knee bumping.  Fortunately they do not interfere with my longer legs.  I can still cross them.

Impressive fix.  Deciding to upscale our 2100 (it can be debated if such is possible) I used a left over portion of 3/4" ash laminate particle board, which we previously used as replacements for our kitchen cabinets.  Some stain along with several coats of urethane and the results were not too bad.  Used a router and a black stain on the edges.  I believe the new top looks better than the original white table. 

Ron, nice fix!

Cropduster, Beautiful! I'd never seen the white table before. I think yours definitely looks better.

Ron,
I could not say with certainty after looking at the photos but if the two reinforcing strips under the table are perpendicular to the grain of the solid wood top this could lead to further splitting.  Wood exhibits little expansion/contraction along the grain but changes significantly with humidity changes across the grain.  If the the reinforcing strips are rigidly attached (appears to have multiple screws) cross grain to the table top the reinforcing strip lengths are virtually unchanged but as humidity drops the top will try to contract and can’t which more than likely will result in either splitting the top and/or breaking in the glue joints.  One way to reduce the chance of this occurring is to slot the screw holes in the reinforcing strips such as to allow the top to expand and contract unrestrained.  You may have already done the slotting.


I may be looking at the photos wrong and the the reinforcing strips are running in the same direction as the grain of the top and if so please ignore my comments.


Fred

Cropduster,
Your replacement table is awesome!

fandj,
I would be very surprised if my two oak reinforcements with 6 screws each (only screwed, not glued to the table itself) is not the right solution.  If I am wrong and you are right and the table splits again, I would execute plan "B" and have a solid cherry table-top built for me.  The current table is 3/4" material.  I would go with 1"  for the replacement.  The table today is not made of cherry.  It is a softer and lighter wood that I was not able to identify.

Ron,
Fandj is correct.  Placing battens perpendicular to the grain on solid wood (not plywood) sections more than 6 to 8" in width will cause failure of the wood panel as it expands and contracts.  In a year round air conditioned home that might not be an issue if there is little humidity change.  But if the humidity does change the wood will move and nothing will stop it.  The problem is that wood expands / contracts perpendicular to the grain but not the other way.  The panel has it's grain oriented in one direction, the battens in the other.

The accepted method of applying battens to solid wood panels is to route out the screw holes in the battens into slots.  This allows the wood panel to expand and contract because the screws slide in the slots.

Personally I doubt there is any need for the battens if you used a good quality yellow wood glue and clamped the joint. 

Here is a link about this.  It goes into a lot of other details but covers the essentials.

Ron, nice fix!

Cropduster, Beautiful! I'd never seen the white table before. I think yours definitely looks better.

Thanks.  I believe the utilitarian white table was likely the standard on low-end RVs.  Nothing wrong with that, although I was impressed with the table in Ron's RV, not to mention his invisible fix. 

Jatrax and fandj,

I did use Elmer's yellow wood glue.  If you are right and it goes south, I will replace the table top as described earlier.  I won't be slotting the holes.  I want to see what happens.

I don't own a biscuit joiner.  If I did, I would have used it and felt better to trust the repair without the additional pair of reinforcements.

Here is a link about this.  It goes into a lot of other details but covers the essentials.

Wow!  I never considered all this, not being a woodworker.

Homes in most of the U.S. that lack humidity control typically experience interior levels of humidity from 25% RH to 65% RH. This range of humidity will cause a 6% change in the MC of the wood. This change in MC will cause a 12-in. wide maple board to change 1/4 in.

So, if I am understanding this correctly, the expansion/contraction is 'against' the grain and not with. 

I have the table from our camper in the basement for a few months now. Very humid, as it is partially open to the humid florida weather. We have no need for it now that the receptacles for it on the floor are covered. Never did use it.(Whoops!  we did once, on the way home after purchase. Ate subs in a publix parking lot) It appears to be solid maple or oak. it is easily 12" wide, and maybe 4 feet long.

Our house is on the dry side, TOO dry according to my ENT, as AC is on 24/7 from june to october. Going from the high humidity in the basement to the dry house should certainly exceed the 25%RH to 65% RH change that the above quote refers to. I realize the topcoat finish retards moisture transfer in and out of the wood, but does not stop it. I am going to carefully measure the table and store it inside. I am anxious to see that 1/4"+ difference in size.

Oh...if there is anyone out there that needs a table for a 2350 might make you a deal. Its the one that fits in front of the couch, not a dinette. Ours had 4 sockets on the floor, one set for slide in and one for out. The table was nothing but 'in the way' when we tried to use it, so it has spent its life stored inside since. Great shape, with legs. I also have the sockets from the floor if you need.

And remember that is 1/4" per foot of wood.  So a 36" wide table might move 3/4".

I once laid a room of hardwood floor that was not adjusted to interior moisture content.  After 2 weeks the boards had all shrunk enough that there were visible cracks between boards and we had to rip up the entire floor and start over.

the expansion/contraction is 'against' the grain and not with.

Depends on what is meant by 'against'.  If you take a typical 1 x 12 that is 8 feet long the 8 foot dimension will hardly change.  But the 12" dimension will change enough to be noticeable and cause problems.  How much it moves will depend on species, and how the board was cut from the log.  Grain direction varies depending on where in the log the board came from.

Some cuts are significantly more stable.  An example is Quarter Sawn which is often used in fine furniture.  Stickley oak furniture popularized this.  However quarter sawing is very wasteful.  It is done by quartering the log then standing each wedge on the point and cutting it into boards.  The boards increase in width as you keep cutting but the grain direction is very uniform and the resulting board is more stable than a flat sawn board.  But you won't find quarter sawn wood outside of specialty furniture shops.  it is crazy expensive.

I was always taught: "wood moves.  Design to allow for it."

Ron, I ought to just give you mine.  For some crazy reason, I saved all the parts from my dinette when I REMOVED IT.  It's all up there in the barn attic, on the theory that if I ever sell the RV, it might sell better if I put it back to original.  Of course, by that time, my table top will have split, just like yours, and the mice will have eaten the upholstery!

Anyway... my advice would be to just replace the silly thing with a comfy place to sit.  I replaced my dinette with a double recliner, complete with built-in TV trays, cup holders, and plugs for our laptops and phones.  What an improvement!  I even removed that worthless barrel chair and we now have so much room that I can even change my mind without asking the Missus to step outside! 

Of course, that means I also I gave up the possibility of taking the grand-kids RV'ing.  But as much as I love my grand-kids, the idea of spending a week with them in a 24' RV just doesn't have the appeal that it once did (before I'd actually spent a week in a 24' RV!).

And remember that is 1/4" per foot of wood.  So a 36" wide table might move 3/4".

WOW!   

I once laid a room of hardwood floor that was not adjusted to interior moisture content.  After 2 weeks the boards had all shrunk enough that there were visible cracks between boards and we had to rip up the entire floor and start over.

I have seen buckling from the same effect.

Quote

the expansion/contraction is 'against' the grain and not with.

Depends on what is meant by 'against'.
Crosscut = against, rip=with?
 If you take a typical 1 x 12 that is 8 feet long the 8 foot dimension will hardly change.  But the 12" dimension will change enough to be noticeable and cause problems.  How much it moves will depend on species, and how the board was cut from the log.  Grain direction varies depending on where in the log the board came from.

Some cuts are significantly more stable.  An example is Quarter Sawn which is often used in fine furniture.  Stickley oak furniture popularized this.  However quarter sawing is very wasteful.  It is done by quartering the log then standing each wedge on the point and cutting it into boards.  The boards increase in width as you keep cutting but the grain direction is very uniform and the resulting board is more stable than a flat sawn board.  But you won't find quarter sawn wood outside of specialty furniture shops.  it is crazy expensive.

I was always taught: "wood moves.  Design to allow for it."

That figure of 3/4 movement for 36" of board width.. so a 12x12 foot room's floor could move 3 inches?!?  I WOODnt have thought it possible.   

Thanks for the clarification!   

Ron, I ought to just give you mine.  For some crazy reason, I saved all the parts from my dinette when I REMOVED IT.  It's all up there in the barn attic, on the theory that if I ever sell the RV, it might sell better if I put it back to original.  Of course, by that time, my table top will have split, just like yours, and the mice will have eaten the upholstery!

We would LOVE to give that dinette a new home. And remove our unused power sofa. Agree on the wide open floor, our coach came without a seat behind the passenger. LOVE it.

We have a grandson going on his first outing with us in October. Hoping for many more.  Outings. NOT grandsons. 

Ours has a slide, but I would imagine some trimming might enable the unit to work.. Wadda ya think? 

I WOODnt have thought it possible.

I SAW what you did there.............

Quote from: BlueBlaze on August 21, 2018, 06:32:36 pm

Ron, I ought to just give you mine.  For some crazy reason, I saved all the parts from my dinette when I REMOVED IT.  It's all up there in the barn attic, on the theory that if I ever sell the RV, it might sell better if I put it back to original.  Of course, by that time, my table top will have split, just like yours, and the mice will have eaten the upholstery!

We would LOVE to give that dinette a new home. And remove our unused power sofa. Agree on the wide open floor, our coach came without a seat behind the passenger. LOVE it.

We have a grandson going on his first outing with us in October. Hoping for many more.  Outings. NOT grandsons. 

Ours has a slide, but I would imagine some trimming might enable the unit to work.. Wadda ya think? 

I wish I'd known.  We could have swapped.

But you really don't know how hard that thing is to sit on until you've been forced to sit on it for a few hours because it's the only other chair in the place.  I used to drag a folding chair indoors to avoid sitting in that thing.  But if you're willing to drive 900 miles to get it, it's yours.  I can't imagine trimming it, though.  It's tight already, unless you're skinny enough to enjoy flying coach.

I've got to ask -- if you don't use your sofa, where do you sit?