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Factory visit

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Ron Dittmer

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    • My 2007 2350 Phoenix Cruiser
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  • Location: N/E Illinois
Re: Factory visit
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2018, 10:07:48 pm »
We have never had a serious lack of propane, but still it would be nice to have a larger tank to use it with less a worry.  Our furnace seems to use a lot.  Fortunately we rarely use the furnace.

There are on-shelf RV propane tanks of which I suppose you could do your own research to see what is available, what larger size will fit your 2552, paying close attention to how to mount it safely to your existing PC framing.

One thing I wished our PC had was a rear wheel fender liner to protect the propane tank from direct rear tire splash.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 10:21:42 pm by Ron Dittmer »
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biglegmax

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Re: Factory visit
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2018, 11:04:48 am »
I'm coming from the Boondocking side and description Jatrax describes. That is what we wanted to order. At the time, Jan of 2017, talking to Earl and crew, they thought I was crazy!
Trying to convince me resale would not be good, something I was not, and am not concerned about. Asking questions about better solar, bigger tanks, cassette toilets, another battery bank, including lithium, 12v air conditioning(yes there really is such a thing, something Earl didn't know), other things that would have been nice would have been a built in air compressor, integrated bike racks, and a few others, put us in the NUTSO category!

There is no doubt PC has no idea what the market is in the West.

So I quickly came to the realization we were going to have to order as striped a model as we could and basically gut the thing and make our own additions.
We ordered, no TV's, no roof rack,or ladder, the toilet against the wall in the 2350, giving us a bigger grey tank, no paint, no awning, ETC...ETC.. knowing that we had to basically spend twice on items like, battery upgrades, inverter/charger replacement, and having to add a good solar system, rearrange the rear bed/shower configuration to allow for a useable bed. Things that make sense to me, the way I use an RV anyway.

To date we have added 680 watts of solar panels, replaced the inverter/charger, added a good monitor, installed two sets of lifeline batteries giving us 600amps., replaced the front bumper, added an integrated bike rack and outside cook station.
 
The built in air compressor will be mounted in the front bumper, the rear bed project is to get started this winter.

What the solar/batteries have allowed us to do so far is run our microwave/oven off batteries,  not worry much about recharging capabilities. They will also allow us to do a full replacement of the not so Norcold Refer to a 12v. marine, and possibly change out the propane stove to electric.

I agree the propane tanks are small too, I'm approaching it from a little different angle though, trying to reduce the number of appliances that use it, and go solar instead. I would like to eliminate propane but the heating issue is a tough one to overcome.

Sorry for the long winded response, but I just wanted to CONFIRM Jatrax has a great point, new specific models should be considered, these are our dads version, and I'm OLD!
Doug

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jatrax

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Re: Factory visit
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2018, 03:50:18 pm »
@biglexmax I'm a little jealous!  Sounds like a really fun project.  Would you mind posting some pictures and details when you get a chance? 

Curious where you located the second battery bank?

Which inverter/charger did you get?

Outside cook station?  Come on we need pictures!

We have the Norcold DE0061 and so far really like it.  Usage has been 36 watts per hour measured over a 10 day period.  We find even our modest solar array has been sufficient to keep it running indefinitely given even partly sunny skies.  Sadly despite the fact that it is a 12volt / 120volt unit Phoenix wired it to a 120 volt receptacle that runs off the inverter.  So it was running off the inverter instead of the battery when not on shore power.  It took a half day's work tracing and rewiring to make it work the way it was supposed to.

For us, the gray tank size is the most limiting and difficult to improve on.

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CalCruiser

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Re: Factory visit
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2018, 03:17:12 am »
After ditching  the heavy pedestal table for a folding Tablemate XL I discovered  that the furnace runs a lot less with the slide-out retracted.

The  Winnebago Revel has some really  innovative  boondocking technology, but it's far from a luxury coach or even what many would consider as being practical. Eventually all-electric rv' s will become common though, and maybe the suspended  bed over cycle  garage/ mini toy hauler  concept will catch on too. 

I agree that putting the 2351’s bed in a slide-out seems  questionable , basically a do-over of the discontinued 2550 that preceded the more popular 2551 (WH)
Goin' where the wind goes...

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Ron Dittmer

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    • My 2007 2350 Phoenix Cruiser
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  • PurchDate: June 2007
  • Model: 2350 Ford
  • ModelYear: 2007
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  • IntColor: Cherry Green&Gray
  • ExtColor: Full Body Gray
  • Location: N/E Illinois
Re: Factory visit
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2018, 08:14:03 am »
I agree that putting the 2351’s bed in a slide-out seems  questionable , basically a do-over of the discontinued 2550 that preceded the more popular 2551 (WH)
I half-agree with you.  A 2351 with a rear corner bed slide out would be better, but similar to a 2550.  Coachhouse and a few others are offering it and so I wonder if that has been their inspiration.  Phoenix could eventually go full circle and offer model 2700 discontinued around 5 years ago, as a new innovation.

As many of you know, Irene and I are not lovers of slideouts, but if we had one or two, I would much prefer it extend out on the left/driver side as not to interfere with a full awning camp setup.

Model 2700 seemed to be a nice choice for people who want to sleep together but need easier access to their bed, and not get so long of a PC to get it.  I wonder if Phoenix would build it upon request.
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biglegmax

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Re: Factory visit
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2018, 09:43:15 am »
Jatrax,

We are fortunate to have a AM Solar distributor spend his summers here locally, so he did all the solar work, electrical work.
We went with a Magnum inverter, Victron controller/monitor, he replaced all the fuse, breaker panels also. Having ordered it without the shower skylight and most of the other stuff on the roof we can actually put 200 more watts of panels on top if needed.

The second set of batteries went directly under the sink, yes we lost the cabinet for storage, but its the perfect spot, basically right above and center of the outside set, and forward of the rear wheels.
The inverter went under the bed.

The 12v refers like you have, are a step up for sure, and I'm glad to hear they use so little power. That will be one of our last changes, due to cost. We always carry a 50L Indel 12v portable refer/freezer with us, and I'm very happy with the technology.

We are headed to Montana next week, it will be our maiden voyage with most of the changes we have made. So we will see how it all works in real life.

I'm not a picture posting kind of guy, but I will give it a shot when we get back from the trip.
Doug



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Joseph

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Re: Factory visit
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2018, 10:21:39 am »
Ron, unlike you we wouldn’t consider a unit without a slide. I’m curious from a want to learn standpoint what it is that has turned you against a slide? Weight? Concerns about leaks?  There are slides I would not consider such as a full length or one with a residential fridge in the slide.

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jatrax

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Re: Factory visit
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2018, 11:21:21 am »
Quote
I'm not a picture posting kind of guy, but I will give it a shot when we get back from the trip.
Thanks Doug, no worries if you do not get around to it.  I am really interested in your build though so if you get into my area give me a shout would love to take a look at your rig.

I talked to the AM Solar folks several times when I was getting my coach and elected to have PC install the solar because it was more convenient.  But I really wish there had been time to have AM Solar do it.

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Ron Dittmer

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    • My 2007 2350 Phoenix Cruiser
  • OwnPC: Yes
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  • Model: 2350 Ford
  • ModelYear: 2007
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  • IntColor: Cherry Green&Gray
  • ExtColor: Full Body Gray
  • Location: N/E Illinois
Re: Factory visit
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2018, 10:33:04 pm »
Ron, unlike you we wouldn’t consider a unit without a slide. I’m curious from a want to learn standpoint what it is that has turned you against a slide? Weight? Concerns about leaks?  There are slides I would not consider such as a full length or one with a residential fridge in the slide.
Do you really want my opinion?  I used to share it now and then but would always get quite a negative response via the old "unneighborly" button.  Before I start, I want to say that I am surely in the minority.  Most people LOVE their slide-out(s) and I respect their feelings about having them.

Okay, here goes.  Keep in-mind that our goal is to own our PC for over 30 years, hopefully over 35 years.  So "long-term reliability" weighs extremely heavy compared to "resale value".

1) A slide-out costs a lot of extra money if buying a new PC or other brand.  Is that money better spent on other features?
2) Each slide-out adds between 400 and 700 pounds depending on it's size, to an already concerning load.
3) Even with the topper, slide-outs can get standing water on top from wind-driven rain.  You have to dry it off after pulling in the slide-out, before moving your rig or the puddle of water becomes air born inside your rig.
4) Bugs, dirt, pine needles, leaves, and general wetness get a free ride to the inside of your rig when closing your slide-out.
5) Slide-outs can rattle when driving, especially with age.
6) Slide-outs can radiate in and leak in cold when it's cold outside, and heat & humidity when it's hot outside, especially with age.
7) Slide-outs increase sensitivity to the leveling of the rig.  We often "wing it" for a night or two with less of a worry.
8) Outside noise penetrates more with a slide-out.
9) You loose notable storage with a slide-out.  Both up top with smaller hanging cabinets, and sometimes below.
10) You loose wall space to accommodate the slide-out, even worse when the slide-out is adjacent to the transition wall.
11) The reliability of a properly functioning slide-out diminishes with the years.
12) Having a slide-out creates a huge hole and also a very heavy plug in your wall.  Over-all integrity of the house is compromised.
13) During the travel portion of the trip, the box is in the house.  Irene and I don't like that.
14) In our 2350 scenario, a comfortable dinette was critical, a couch was not.  Our bolt-down captain seat with seat belt by the entry door provides a compromising half couch.  Our no-slide dinette in our 2350 utilizes the transition wall & slide-out wall thickness(x2) providing a decent table & leg room, by utilizing the much extra linear wall space.
15) Since the primary slide-out has included the fridge since model year 2010, other mechanical compromises were made.

CLICK HERE to see pictures of our slideless dinette.  Note the rear bench is right up against the fridge wall.  The front bench is many inches inside the transition wall, but no so much to interfere with driver seat adjustment.  Some pictures show our original cloth cushions with standard foam.  We changed cushions around 5 years ago to the vinyl cushions with memory foam.  That increased the comfort factor immensely, a wonderful improvement.

CLICK HERE to see our general interior.  We don't value the elbow room of a slide-out nearly as much as all the benefits I listed.  BUT....I do wonder if we were snow birds living in our PC for many months at a time, if we would feel differently.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2018, 10:53:31 pm by Ron Dittmer »
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biglegmax

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  • ModelYear: 2018 2350 e450 4x4
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  • ExtColor: white,no paint,or decals
  • Location: oregon
Re: Factory visit
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2018, 09:16:13 am »
Jatrax .... we will get together someday for sure, we are just over the hill from you in Mosier.


Ron, those are all well thought out concerns. I would not worry about any bashing. If more people would understand how they are going to use their RV, and buy accordingly, our land fills would not take such a beating.
Doug

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jatrax

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Re: Factory visit
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2018, 09:45:32 am »
Quote
Do you really want my opinion?  I used to share it now and then but would always get quite a negative response via the old "unneighborly" button.
Ron, since the "unneighborly" button is gone you are now safe. roflol

Hard to believe anyone would hit that button just because you don't like slides.  I like my slide and I'm willing to live with the potential downsides but reading your posts has opened my eyes to the fact that while slides are great they are not required.  And for some folks are a negative.

I was going to give my opinion on your list of "why nots..." but decided not to.  I agree with about half of your points and highly disagree with some.  The rest are personal preference.  The great thing is you can get an RV from Phoenix either way.

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Joseph

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Re: Factory visit
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2018, 10:07:08 am »
Thanks Ron, I really wanted your opinion. Some I agree with some I don’t or doesn’t apply to my situation. Such as cost being I never buy new.  All that aside everyone spends there money differently and has various views on things. I was sincerely interested in your take on the slides.

You mentioned in another post about having an older rig being not the norm in your area or something of that nature. In that regard I’m in the “Better the devil you know than the devil you don’t” category. You know you’ve got a good rig that’s not collaring you to death, why change.

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Ron Dittmer

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  • Location: N/E Illinois
Re: Factory visit
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2018, 03:02:01 pm »
Hi Guys,

We are all entitled to our opinions.  Thank you for allowing me to share my opinion without taking it personal.  I would love to read your list of reasons, why you prefer a slide-out (or multiple slide-outs) even though some of your listed reasons might directly contradict mine.

Ron
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jatrax

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Re: Factory visit
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2018, 03:42:50 pm »
Quote
I would love to read your list of reasons, why you prefer a slide-out
Ron the only reason to add a slide is the increase in interior space when parked.  Any buyer needs to balance that with your comprehensive list of negatives.  Any issues I have with your list are more of how much they matter rather than whether they are true or not.

1) OK
2) The extra weight is a concern on some but not all models.  On my 2552 we still have plenty of carrying capacity even with the slide.
3 & 4) Can't argue except to say it really has not been an issue for us especially with the new seals.  We have camped in very wet weather and very little if any water remains on the slide top, UNLESS you are not properly level.
5, 6, 7, 8)  Not really our experience or at least not enough to notice.  YMMV of course
9 & 10) OK
11) Maybe but is that your expectation or do you have statistics?  The whole rig is going to get less reliable as it ages
12) I would think they have engineered the coach to allow for that but I won't argue
13) Not a concern for us in the 2552 but other models might be different
14) Our modified 2552 has both couch and dinette so not an issue for us but again other models will be different
15) Not being up on older models I am not sure what you meant with this one

I suspect if I was getting a 2350 I might seriously consider a no slide configuration.  But in the larger 2552 it makes sense to me to have it.  Personal space needs and comfort will be different for different people so no one can say what makes some other person happy.  After 18 months I am still happy with our modified 2552 with slide.  We have looked at quite a few other rigs and feel no desire for a change.  But there is no question that a no slide configuration is going to be simpler construction.

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Ron Dittmer

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    • My 2007 2350 Phoenix Cruiser
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  • ExtColor: Full Body Gray
  • Location: N/E Illinois
Re: Factory visit
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2018, 04:49:30 pm »
Thanks jatrax for your slide-out thoughts.  One thing certain is that your 2552 can surely handle the extra weight of it's slide out.  Given the 2552's configuration, it might even improve "weight distribution" between front and rear suspensions.

CalCruiser, I can't recall who...maybe it was you....someone was trying to get a bigger dining table and more leg room.  It can be accomplished by ordering either a 2351 or a 2552 without a slide-out.  The extra wall space accommodates for it.  For Irene and me, that would have been exceptional.  We would love a bigger dining table and more leg room.  What we have today works well, but that would work even better.

Ron
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 05:00:55 pm by Ron Dittmer »
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