Inverter "Remote" Madness

Xantrex 2000 Full Sine Wave

Factory location under closet is too tight for wrenches being used. Replacement mandated opening access. Taking out the refrigerator or busting through the cabinet floor are the two alternatives.  Fridge removal seemed like a huge undertaking.  Learning the cabinet structure was pressed paper made me question what should have been woodwork
Got the replacement installed and verified operation  Ran out of time and had to return home before actually running system to test performance. 

Only opening to the inverter's hidden compartment is by removing the small drawer under the closet.  Obviously, the factory installed the inverter first.  Then built everything around it

I too have a few questions for Taildragger.

We have a 2007 2350 (no slide)
You have a 2010 2350 (no slide)
Our inverter is under the main closet, the same as you indicated, but we do not have a drawer.
We have a Tripp-Lite inverter.  Was your original one a Tripp-Lite?
We have a vented access door.  You don't?  Did I understand you correctly, access to the inverter is through a small drawer opening?  Are you saying the inverter does not fit through the provided access?

What comes to mind for increasing the size of the opening, is removing the cabinet rail along the bottom of the accress opening.  It may be screwed on from behind like I seen practiced with the galley cabinet.  You could confirm my suspicion with a mirror.

Why did you replace your inverter?  Did it fail?

For reference, here is the situation with our Tripp-Lite inverter.  We have NO drawer.

I appreciate the questions.  I will try eliminating any confusion I may have caused. Unfortunately, including appropriate pictures is denied.  Because the Cruiser is stored in Oregon, I won't be getting an opportunity for pictures until early April - next year.

The 20007 Phoenix Cruiser 2100 included the TrippLite Inverter/Converter combination.   The installation location was slightly different from the 2350 in this thread.. As part of the effort to shorten overall cabin length, there was no closet in the PC2100.  The Tripplite was positioned under the refrigerator.  The Tripplite was open to access and performed flawlessly.

The 2010 Phoenix Cruiser 2350 came equipped with Xantrex electronics.  Positioning was about the same as pictured in the accompanying Tripplite installation.  The Xantrex unit is a lower profile and allowed Phoenix Cruiser cabinetry to be slightly different.  Designer, or whoever decides configuration, eliminated all access to the Inverter.  Wall cabinet was built a few inches taller.  The space underneath was utilized as a small drawer.  The access was very restricted.  Removing the drawer was the only avenue and the opening was small.

The Xantrex brand includes a Remote-Control panel that displays features and allows operation from a mounting location on the bulkhead adjacent to the ONAN Generator Panel.  Ostensibly, everything and anything can be done remotely.  Off/On, isn't an issue. According to the Manual, Reset is accomplished by physically disconnecting the cables.  Granted, the battery cables can be disconnected at the source.  But, not being able to physically manipulate the connections, concerns about possible corrosion, integrity, etc., etc...

I realized the unit had to be accessed in order to perform diagnostics.  From writing to this forum, I learned others found their Xantrex under the corner bed.  I also learned some had replaced their Xantrex equipment several times.  Some suggested I consider alternatives.  Victron was lauded as more full featured.  I also found that RV Repair providers were very reluctant to undertake the project after I told the unit was secreted and inaccessible.

Space was my primary concern.  The replacement had to fit in the same constrained compartment.  I elected to create approach through the bottom of the closet.  Working from floor level in the narrow aisle between the corner bed / bathroom / closet - would have had me boxed in too much and violated one of the first principles my Dad taught when approaching a project "the first thing to do is get your ass behind you"

Not exactly a good example of the features built into graphics software, but here is a quick representation of the 2010 version of Phoenix Cruiser's cabinetry.

The closet dimension is higher as allowed by the bottom being several inches lower .  There is a drawer below the cabinet is the only avenue into the compartment where they placed the inverter.

Ah, that made it very clear as to the difference between our 2007 2350 (no slide) and your 2010 2350 (no slide).

Only for reference and clarification, our Tripp-Lite has a remote control panel as well, be it very simple.  I don't like using it because it does not fully shut off the unit.  I believe it places the unit into some kind of "sleep mode" or "stand-by mode" still drawing a small amount of power.  Instead, I open the Tripp-Lite door, reach in, and shut it off utilizing the small black switch on the Tripp-Lite itself.  My front TV and my 110V volt meter draws a small amount of 110V leaving me feeling it is best to kill 110V right at the source to assure it is 100% dead when I want it dead, exclusively done for better battery health.

Here is the Tripp-Lite remote panel, seen to the right of the power panel.  Below them is access to the main 12V power solenoid and a few other electrical connections along with rear access to the two panels from below.

During my experience with the TrippLite Inverter/Converter performed reliably.  That for the brief period I owned the PC 2100.  I relied on the Control Panel to monitor operation and battery condition.  The product was trouble free.  Following the suggestions in this Forum by Ron Dittmer, years ago, I installed a voltmeter/ammeter in the range hood.  The colored lights on the TrippLite Control Panel displayed usage.  But they did little to portray battery reserve level status condition.  I benefitted from the supplemental gauge.  Another nonintuitive revelation was being made aware that using the manual Off/On switch on the device, instead of the control panel, to preserve battery potential.

The new Xantrex Control Panel appears to be more full featured.  I look forward to using the system and testing the features claimed in the manual.

The Xantrex Inverter installed in the PC 2350 failed.  Replacement was complicated because location within the RV seems to vary among models and year.  Other Xantrex owners, on this forum, report the same fate.  But, they reported exchanging theirs for a replacement as if access didn't require demolition measures. 

Other Phoenix Cruiser owners with Xantrex failures, suggested an alternate brand as replacement.  I contacted Victron through their website.  I got  a reply with suggested authorized dealers.  Contacting several, I quickly learned a marketing scheme prevailed.  They all expected that I submit to a design engineering contract where I would be billed $120 to $160 / hour.  I explained my wiring and installation were already in place.  And all I wanted was a simple replacement.  It mattered little.  Seemed they expected customers to willingly submit to entrapment.

I never understood the reason, or heard why Phoenix changed from the Tripp-Lite inverter that we have in our 2007, to the Xantrax that Taildragger has (or had) in his 2010.  The Tripp-Lite had a very short life span in terms of Phoenix model years.  It was introduced in late 2006 as an option that also included 2 house batteries, that later became standard equipment in 2007, and lasted but a few Phoenix production years.  Prior to the Tripp-Lite, Phoenix installed only a 12V converter supported by a single house battery.

As I mentioned higher-up, I wonder if Taildragger and others with the same limited access to the Xantrax, could have increased it by unscrewing the bottom frame rail (from behind) and lower panel (with heat register) under the drawer.  Phoenix assembled the cabinetry back then using the "pocket hole" method.  Maybe they still do today.

Replacing the Inverter on a 2010 Phoenix Cruiser 2350 is an undertaking that requires an insight into the construction of the cabinet enclosure.  I couldn't generate any response communication from the various industry sources.  Without meaningful insight, or any response from Phoenix Cruiser's Service Department, my only alternative was to blunder into the project. 

Since the cabinet doors and drawers rest on the cabinet frame and the stiles / rails served as a frame on the cabinet box without Mortise & Tenon, Dovetail, Dado, or Rabbet joints anywhere, it is not surprising the base wasn't secured to the floor with Pocket Hole cabinetry.  The cabinet's clothes closet bottom plate appeared to be my best avenue into the inverter vault.  I mistakenly assumed lifting the closet bottom and sliding the underneath drawer out it its rails was cleverly intended as an access route by Phoenix Cruiser Design Team Engineers. 

Not true, as I learned from inside the closet!  Because, although removing the bottom quarter-round trim reveals the plate is not solid on three sides, the fourth side blindly extends to the adjacent bathroom wall and is affixed with a more than adequate array of pneumatic staples.  Relying on my grandson, who is the strongest, smartest, and best-looking specimen representing what remains of that part of the human race showing any potential, we ripped the paper board assembly loose. 

Reassembly was accomplished using dimension lumber.  Where the construction required attachment to the residiual paperboard, we predrilled holes and inserted screws.  Of course, torque is a sensitive issue when relying on paperboard.  Fearing the consequence of using glue on the joints, I now fear the assembly collapsing from road vibration

So, no pocket-hole disassembly applies here.  I surely understand how you came to the conclusion you did.  I could see myself doing the same thing.

Looking back on the project, what was learned from it, I wonder now if it would have been best to cut the floor of the closet, one inch (or less) in from the 4 edges to create a large rectangular access opening.  Once the inverter project is complete, cover the hole with an additional finished plywood board, cut perfectly to cover the entire floor of the closet.  Screw it down to the original closet floor edges for structural integrity.

For a price, Phoenix should be able to ship a 1/8" thick matching finish board, a few inches bigger.  Make a pattern from paper to get the perfect shape.

This doesn't help you now Taildragger, but maybe someone else.... if it is a good approach.

Looking back on the project, what was learned from it, I wonder now if it would have been best to cut the floor of the closet, one inch (or less) in from the 4 edges to create a large rectangular access opening.  Once the inverter project is complete, cover the hole with an additional finished plywood board, cut perfectly to cover the entire floor of the closet.  Screw it down to the original closet floor edges for structural integrity.

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Your conclusion describes exactly the procedure I should have used.  As your intuition dictates, a scroll saw cutting through the 3/4 " paperboard closet floor would have provided an equivalent access to what I obtained by instead busting everything.  Hopefully, this dialog will provide insight to others. 

Not knowing otherwise and presuming there was a logical disassembly procedure incorporated into the design decision caused me to proceed blindly.  After all, what engineer would bury an electronic device that is known to require maintenance in a vault like inaccessible location?   I was looking for an alternative to cutting my way into the buried compartment and instead proceeded by prying the walls apart.

Opening the "lid", by cutting open the closet floor, would have been much less complicated.  Dealing with what seemed like just one more staple, in a futile attempt to find the fourth side was "openable", evolved into multiple "last" staples that lead to finding the rearward edge of the closet floor was bracing the bathroom wall.   While I was focused on prying the floor up, I was expecting the resistance was nothing more than one more concealed staple.   Imaging a seam inside the wall that needed to be forced open, I soon was engaged in a demolition effort that I never expected. And couldn't reverse.