First Toad Trip, or Maybe I Meant to say E-bikes....

We just returned from our first experience pulling a dingy. 1600 miles trying to find warmth in southern Arizona, cut short with weather forecasts of more highs in the 50's and lows pushing freezing. Not much better than home in Grand Junction, CO.

Flash, our 2010 PC 2551, performed flawlessly (aside from needing a new battery) and nearly effortlessly pulling our 2000 Chevy Tracker, Dash. The Tracker seems to be designed for towing four down. It's an automatic 4WD with high/low range and neutral in the transfer case, decent ground clearance, a comfortable 4 door and pleasant to drive. There is an always-on 12 volt outlet in the console to plug in the RVI brake assist system I had chosen:
https://rvibrake.com/products/rvibrake3-auxiliary-braking-system?variant=20046642181

No need to leave the ignition key on. As long as you leave a key in the ignition after shut down the steering wheel does not lock.

It was really nice to have a vehicle for exploring, shopping, getting to trail heads, etc. while leaving a camp all set up.

We weighed at the Port of Entry on our way out of town. Dash clocked in at 3200# with full fuel, our two mountain e-bikes (Crash and Smash) and the heavy duty bike rack needed to carry them, plus assorted accessories for biking and hiking, jump starter and tools, etc.  We loaded Flash with the usual way-too-many clothes and toys, full water and food and drinks for three weeks. The scale reported the front axle at 4500# (5000# capacity,) rear axle 8160 (9500# capacity,) 12660# total, or 1840# to spare. Show me another 28' RV with that capacity.
The only thing I wish we had taken, and easily strapped to the roof rack on Dash, was our old Wenonah Minnesota II canoe named...wait for it... Splash. We could have used it several times.

We always log our fuel and water usage. Last year without towing, we averaged 9.141 MPG over 4567 miles. We usually drive at 60 to 65 MPH, but don't push it up hills or in headwinds. With the same strategy pulling Dash we averaged 8.607 MPG over the 1636 miles traveled, an extra 11 gallons. Roughly the same amount of fuel saved by using Dash (24 mpg) instead of Flash on excursions.

Without Dash to use, we would not have been able to drive the two scenic loops in Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument, (which we absolutely loved!)  a trip to Biosphere 2 while camping outside of Tucson, or easy shopping and sightseeing while staying at Lake Pleasant north of Phoenix.

As far as driving goes, there was very little difference to be noticed...slightly more "pull" on the long inclines, and the need to think ahead when stopping for fuel or for the night...you can't use reverse while towing four down. Going down the road, it is like there is nothing back there, just frequent glances in the rear camera to be sure it was still there.

This performance makes sense as I remember my much younger days touring in my 1970 VW leather-shop-on-wheels Bus. You'd feel the suction as you pulled dangerously close to the rear bumper of that 18-wheeler going down the highway in front of you, let off of the gas pedal, and literally coast behind it. That's what Dash feels, hence the smile.

Dougn

I do hope your spare tire isn't named, Slash.
When you get caught up, could you tell me more about your E-bikes please.  We looked at them at the Outdoor Expo in GJ last weekend.  I'm more interested in the value to your usage than the tech aspect.  Do you take them on all your trips?  Do you use them around town?  Do you ride the trails?  Would you use the rack on , Flash?  How do you lock them up and do you worry about the battery being stolen?  How often do you use the assist?  I really like the idea and I understand they are pricey.  I just want to be sure that we would use them enough to justify the cost.  Let's just say my knees haven't been 18 for many years so they are pushing me to do some  investigating.

I do hope your spare tire isn't named, Slash.
When you get caught up, could you tell me more about your E-bikes please.  We looked at them at the Outdoor Expo in GJ last weekend.  I'm more interested in the value to your usage than the tech aspect.  Do you take them on all your trips?  Do you use them around town?  Do you ride the trails?  Would you use the rack on , Flash?  How do you lock them up and do you worry about the battery being stolen?  How often do you use the assist?  I really like the idea and I understand they are pricey.  I just want to be sure that we would use them enough to justify the cost.  Let's just say my knees haven't been 18 for many years so they are pushing me to do some  investigating.

Good one! I guess I've never named a spare tire (yet.)
The E-bike was a game changer for me. Too many operations and then the knee replacement from hell left me immobilized, then impaired. Still don't walk very far. When I was able to ride a bike again, it was not for much distance. My first e-bike allowed me to not always be worried about making it home.  Now I ride from Redlands down to Sprouts for groceries and fill the saddle bags, it's all uphill on the way home, no issue. 12 miles total. I've riden the Monument loop, 33 miles. You can use as much assist as you like, or none at all. The range is much further than my butt cares to be in the saddle. They go everywhere with us and are used everywhere we go. We're still trying to hone our skills (and courage) for the trails here (no more pain, please!)

My first one was a townie bike with a hub motor, not the best arrangement. My wife could not keep up so she got the Haibike cross bike, and then I couldn't keep up with her...had to buy a Haibike too. The crank mount motor is far superior to the hub motor, which seems to have a dragging effect when coasting. The old bike had to be pedaled downhill while she passed me just coasting.  You get what you pay for.

You will need a suitable bike rack, and as good a lock as you can find. And insurance. The batteries lock to the bike, but we remove them and the seats when traveling. The rack is a Hollywood, 2" receiver goes on Flash or the Subaru as needed
Our old townie bikes and mountain bikes are never used anymore. Go see Scotty at Colorado E-Bikes and tell him his old nail-pounding Bro, Doug, sent you.

Is that your PC that was parked at Rimrock's  storage lot over by the car wash?

Dougn

Nope, we currently store our PC at GJ RV storage just East of 29 rd and D 1/2 road.   We'll be moving it up to Adrenaline Driven Adventure Co. (a Polaris Adventure Hub) that is at the old Thrifty Car Rental place on Horizon just North of I-70.   My son is the operations manager and he's going to let us park it in the back of their lot.

Thank you for the information, it is very helpful!  I believe it was Colorado E-Bikes we talked to at the Expo last week!
We'll be sure to check with them.

We just moved to Grand Junction from Loveland last May and absolutely love it here!

2 Lucky, you can just name all your toys inside one book.   The title is .............CASH.

2 Lucky, you can just name all your toys inside one book.   The title is .............CASH.

Sorry, I did not wish to appear brash....

DONC13, the best way to get an electic bike is to build it yourself.  I built us a couple two years ago from parts I bought at https://lunacycle.com/.  The reason is that you want a "Mid drive" that puts the motor on the crank, instead of a "Hub drive" that puts it in the wheel.  And you will want a bigger battery than most ebikes will give you.  You can save at least $500 apiece by buying a couple of cruisers (like our Del Sol's) and converting them, rather than buying a completed conversion, even from Luna.

Now, is it a good idea?  Sorry, it didn't work out for us.  Not that the technology doesn't work.  Our bikes will do 30 mph, and go 30 miles without a charge if you dial it back to 20 mph.  And they're a real hoot to ride.  They make you feel like superman.  And it was great to be able to hang our "toads" on the trailer hitch.

Maybe if we were younger.  My wife was just never comfortable riding on city streets.  We wound up buying a Smart car.  I'll sell 'em to you if you're interested.

DONC13, the best way to get an electic bike is to build it yourself.  I built us a couple two years ago from parts I bought at https://lunacycle.com/.  The reason is that you want a "Mid drive" that puts the motor on the crank, instead of a "Hub drive" that puts it in the wheel.  And you will want a bigger battery than most ebikes will give you.  You can save at least $500 apiece by buying a couple of cruisers (like our Del Sol's) and converting them, rather than buying a completed conversion, even from Luna.

Now, is it a good idea?  Sorry, it didn't work out for us.  Not that the technology doesn't work.  Our bikes will do 30 mph, and go 30 miles without a charge if you dial it back to 20 mph.  And they're a real hoot to ride.  They make you feel like superman.  And it was great to be able to hang our "toads" on the trailer hitch.

Maybe if we were younger.  My wife was just never comfortable riding on city streets.  We wound up buying a Smart car.  I'll sell 'em to you if you're interested.

We' re actually headed to Texas next week.  Coming in Eastbound (from Albuquerque) on I-40 to Amarillo, I-27 to Lubbock to Sweetwater, to i-20 to Abilene then Austin via 84.   After Austin, headed down to Port Aransas on the Gulf.  On the way back it'll be San Antonio to San Angelo to Lubbock, Amarillo to Albuquerque to Colorado



If you're anywhere near that route, PM me, we just may be interested in stopping and looking at them.

How heavy are these bikes? I met someone that loved hers BUT it weighed over 70lbs... More than she could hoist onto a bike rack. They were laying their bikes into the back of their tow vehicle (which sounds like a massive pain to me) until they could get some sort of rack that worked. They were looking for something with a ramp like they sell for scooters.

I see the base of your bike rack, does it have a riser that you lock to or do the bikes just sit down in the wheel tracks? Does it swing out to allow access to the back of you Subaru?

I'm in the market for a new bike and the e bikes would be perfect but I'd need to be able to get it on a rack and the rack would need to allow access to the back of the Subaru without unloading the bikes. John's bike is on a Swing-Daddy that works well but I'm not sure it should work for an e bike due to weight on rack and weight to lift chest high.

How heavy are these bikes? I met someone that loved hers BUT it weighed over 70lbs... More than she could hoist onto a bike rack. They were laying their bikes into the back of their tow vehicle (which sounds like a massive pain to me) until they could get some sort of rack that worked. They were looking for something with a ramp like they sell for scooters.

I see the base of your bike rack, does it have a riser that you lock to or do the bikes just sit down in the wheel tracks? Does it swing out to allow access to the back of you Subaru?

I'm in the market for a new bike and the e bikes would be perfect but I'd need to be able to get it on a rack and the rack would need to allow access to the back of the Subaru without unloading the bikes. John's bike is on a Swing-Daddy that works well but I'm not sure it should work for an e bike due to weight on rack and weight to lift chest high.

Well some of the purpose-built ebikes are pretty heavy, but a conversion isn't.  Without the battery, mine weigh about 5 pounds more than the bike did before I converted it, And you don't leave a $400 battery on the bike when it's hanging on your trailer hitch.  I carry mine with a $100 Swagman XC that I bought on amazon.  I don't have any problem lifting them onto it but any bike would be too heavy for my wife.  I guess it just depends.

The Thule T2 carrier  can handle 2x 60 pound bikes and swings down to load or access a hatchback. The early ones had problems with the carrier sliding off the frame rail but that’s easily fixed with an extra bolt.  It’s similar to bike racks on the front of city transit busses. 

Talking about electric bikes.......Warning: Looking at this may get you addicted.

https://organictransit.com/

Real exciting the things that are being developed!

Ron