Correction Gtng 2 Trailhead , & former Lazy Daze, Born Free, & Camper Owners

Our goal is to have a vehicle suitable for some trips on Forest Service roads of the type where one would feel comfortable in a full-sized 2WD pickup (the old standard for most USFS roads) and thereby not always have to tow the Jeep to get to remote areas like a trailhead after setting up basecamp elsewhere.  Besides shorter PCs converted to 4WD (with partial benefit due to increase in ride height), other options being considered are the Class C Provan Tiger Bengal, which also allows one to pass (crawl) between cab and living quarters

 http://www.tigervehicles.com

or a Sportsmobile

http://sportsmobile.com/sportsmobile-4x4/

Or an Alaskan slide-in hard-sided popup camper, though they unfortunately still lack graywater tanks and inside showers.  Popups have reduced topheaviness compared to a non-popup camper,  reduced effects from crosswinds, and usually don't require dual rear wheels.

http://alaskancampers.com
http://www.alaskancamper.com/index.html

or a soft-sided slide-in popup camper, probably by Hallmark or Outfitter

http://www.hallmarkrv.com

http://www.outfittermfg.com

Both make 8 1/2 ft models with wet baths (short enough to not have to mess with hitch extensions or longer towbars to tow Jeep).

Lazy Daze and Born Free Class Cs are marketed as having less wind resistance or being buffeted less due to both lower height and closure of the gap between pickup cab and bunk.  This would be similar to the Provan Tiger.  A popup camper like the Alaskan, Hallmark or Outfitter would be a little lower, but have this gap.

Are there any former Lazy Daze or Born Free owners who've also had slide-in campers of any type who could compare differences in gap vs no gap in headwinds and crosswinds?  And, did any Lazy Daze or Born Free owners find an improvement with a PC, having no cabover?

Thanks!

You must still be "young" like we were "back when". We lived in Alaska for 13 years. We traveled to Montana one Feb and purchased a pop up pick up camper. On the way back home it hit 40 below in Watson Lake. I knew we made a big mistake. We ended up with an 8 foot Lance (made in CA I think) and had shower and all. Traveled all over Alaska and the Yukon. HOWEVER, now in our 70's, we enjoy our creature comforts in our PC 2351 and tow a Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk (with more creature comforts) If this a long term plan, think about getting older. It WILL happen. If only for a short term, go for what works. I like a 4x4 pick up and 8 to 9.5 camper.

Ron-n-toni, the 2351 w/o slide is probably what we'd get if buying a new PC, along with something like the device in my previous posting for a little more support for the rear suspension, or other devices.  But, an 8 1/2 ft camper on a full-sized pickup, w or w/o 4WD certainly would go more places. 

You said in another post you had a Born Free.  Was there any noticable difference between it and your pickup camper in headwinds or crosswinds due to the former having no gap between cab and cabover vs the latter having a gap, assuming other things being equal like the pickup also having duals?  And, in your transition to a PC, did you notice much difference since it lacks a cabover?  Also, did your popup pickup camper not have insulated softwalls, or is the "insulated" softwall no better than a parka shell, anyway?  The north-south beds out there are intriguing, but that sure looks like a LOT more structural stress. 

Re. age, we're in our 50's but still plan to hike the Pacific Crest Trail after retirement begins in a few months to a couple years ($ vs time debate), so climbing in and out of a cabover bed is still feasible, for the moment.  When it isn't and we start to struggle like my 96 year old father does with the wastwater valves on his '97 Roadtrek (a stretch for anyone), we may move on to something else.  Of course, if the right lifted or 4WD used 2350 or 2351 came along soon, no need to ditch something with a cabover purchased now for the PC later....

Hi Michelle,

You remind me of ourselves in some ways.  Irene and I are both now 58 and retired.  10 years ago when we were 48, we had sold THIS rig.  We bought that one new in 1983 for $12,225 when we were 25 years old and owned it for 24 years.  Though we were young & skinny & nimble, we never slept in the cab-over bed after the 1st year.  It was a place for fluffy stuff and a bed for our kids.  We kept the dinette as a bed all the time when on trips.  You can imagine the seat belt laws we would be breaking today.

Being only 17.5 feet long, it fit in a regular parking spot like a car.  It was a blessing to own while raising a family.  Not only was it our get-away camper to our nation's parks, but it also provided me with utility to haul many kinds of things like a pickup truck.  It really was nice to have automobile mobility on our family vacations.  Nap time, feeding the family, diaper changes, whatever, we were always ready for anything wherever we were.

But approaching age 49 with our youngest child starting college, we found ourselves needed more.  A self contained vehicle with true practicality like a real bath, a real main floor bed, a real dinette, a real fridge, a good setup for indoor cooking, decent infrastructure like water & waste capacities and heating & air conditioning.  Most critical was that it had to fit in our garage that is 25'-0" long and a door height of 9'-11.25" of which our PC-2350 worked.  A 2351 would also.  We probably would have gotten a 2351 if it was offered back in 2007 when we ordered our PC.

If our 2350 PC had a cab-over bed, we would both sleep on the main floor bed and use the bunk for light weight fluffy storage, just as we did with our first rig.  At age 58, still not over-weight, we notice it becoming harder to do nimble things like getting in and out from our rear corner bed.  I could never imagine getting in and out from a cab-over bed anymore.  I understand why the twin bed PC models are so popular with the 60+ age group.

So that is my story.  Maybe you can relate to it.  If you decide to buy a different brand with a cab-over bed, maybe in a few years like us the cab-over bed will just be providing you with bulk storage at a cost to wind resistance, height restrictions, and handling sacrifices.  If you go with a cab-over bed brand, be sure you can still sleep on the main floor or you might find yourself selling the rig much sooner than originally planned.

Ron Dittmer

Michelle, we are also in our 50's and 60's and reasonably active. We've hiked some pretty awesome trails and plan to keep on going until we can't do it anymore. I was walking my son's dog a year ago and she pulled me around and tore out my knee. I intend to have knee surgery as hiking with any twist or turn to the leg is painful but that apparently soon brings arthritis in the joint. So, we are looking at restrictions far earlier than expected.

I'm just saying that your age is not always the determining factor. Sometimes life throws you a curve ball. If you don't plan to trade in your camper house for a long time, it might be best to get something that is adaptable. Luckily the Phoenix will still work beautifully for me even if I get gimpy in one leg a few years down the road. I would probably not be able to handle a cab over bed at that point. I just need to be able to get in and out the door and with only three steps from ground to interior floor, I can do that readily enough.

Everyone's making valid points, and we definitely would try the climb into a cabover bed in a camper or the overhead bed in a penthouse roofed Sportsmobile before buying.  And, it seems like the rickety steps on most campers need replacement with something better, preferably with a handrail, and with other options of a landing and angled steps for the occasional towing of a toad.  That'd be better for anyone of any age using them, and help prevent the curveballs of injury.  Of course, buying used and well-maintained with someone else taking the big depreciation hit better allows one to later move on to something else if the initial purchase doesn't work out.  I hope I find something as well taken care-of as you, Ron, have done with your rigs!