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upgrading to lithium batteries and dealing with charging from the alternator

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tdbeltz

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I am upgrading my RV which is a 2009 2551 to 2 100ah Lithium batteries connected in parallel.  I have a Xantrex Freedom XC 2000 inverter/charger that can charge lithium and I have a Go Power solar PWM controller with a 170watt panel that will also work with Lithium. Currently when I am running my engine, my inverter/charger will show that the alternator is charging the house batteries.
I have ordered a Victron DC-to-DC 12/12/-30amp charger for the conversion as I had heard about concerns regarding the alternator charging lithium batteries especially if the battery charge level is extremely low.  In any case I bought the charger.  My question is when I install the charger, how do I handle the current charging system so that it is only charging through the new DC To DC charger setup when the engine is running?  I heard about the solenoid in the engine compartment under the coolant overflow container and have taken photos.  The problem is, I do not know where the wires are going except for one that goes to the chassis battery.  The other wires I have now idea where they go and what one or ones I need to disconnect if any after I install the new system.  Like I mentioned I know that one of the two larger gauge red wires go to the chassis battery and the other looks like it is connecting to a fuse and two other wires on the fuse.  There are then two smaller posts at the base.  One of the smaller posts has a black wire that I think may go to ground and on the other post are three wires.  Two red wires and one that looks like a black wire.  I have no idea where they go or their use.  Maybe one red wire that looks like it goes through the firewall is for the white switch under the dash on the driver’s side used in case you need to jump your chassis battery using your house battery?  The other red wire and Black wire I have no clue.
I am hoping someone can explain how that solenoid works along with how it is wired up (a diagram would be great), and when I have installed the DC-to-DC charger, what do I need to do if anything with regards to the solenoid?
I am concerned about both systems trying to charge the batteries.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.

I have never posted before, so I hope this goes through okay.

Thanks for any help,
Proud Phoenix Cruiser owner of a 2009 2551

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CalCruiser

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mikeh

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I was going to post a wiring diagram that Randy Hyde had posted here about a year ago, but I see that CalCruiser beat me to it.  That diagram was for his 2008 2350, so should be fairly close to your original layout.  There have been some minor changes in Phoenix Cruiser wiring over the years, and different components used, but the battery isolation solenoid you refer to has been pretty consistent. As you probably know, the purpose of that solenoid is to connect the the house batteries to the Ford engine battery (when the solenoid is energized) to allow the alternator feed to also charge the house batteries.  The solenoid is energized when the key switch is turned to "ON"; the rest of the time it is de-energized, isolating the engine and house batteries from each other.

Wiring, as I said, can vary slightly--but basically the wire on one of the big solenoid posts connects to the (Ford) chassis battery as you noted, and the other big post feeds a 40-amp self-resetting circuit breaker (the thing you call a fuse) and from there that wire runs to the house batteries.  The two small posts energize the solenoid.  One goes to ground, the single black wire that you noted.  The other post has at least two wires--one is a feed from the "ON" circuit of the key switch which energizes the solenoid when you turn the switch on.  That wire doesn't normally come from the key switch itself--I believe on my 2019 rig it comes from a terminal in the under hood Ford fuse block that is energized with key-on.  The second wire, as you guessed, feeds from the "white switch".  Depressing the "white switch" allows you to directly energize the solenoid (if your Ford battery is dead) to connect the chassis battery with the house batteries to slowly back-feed some charge into the Ford battery from hot house batteries.  The "white switch" gets it's feed from the house batteries--frequently by tying onto that 40-amp breaker under the hood (that second wire on the other side of that breaker you mentioned is likely your feed to the "white switch").  You also mentioned in your application a third wire on that small hot solenoid terminal--I'm not sure what that is; most likely it is picking up a key-on 12-volt feed for something, since that post gets hot when the key goes on.

I have not done a lithium upgrade on my unit yet, but in reading posts here from those that have the usual process when installing a DC to DC charger seems to be to simply disconnect the solenoid system.  The main wires could be simply removed and taped (insulated)--that would effectively eliminate that system.  You would lose your ability to back-feed charge to your chassis battery by use of the "white switch", but there would be no other problem.  If you leave the solenoid and small wires attached--even that third wire feed would still be active for whatever it does.

Best of luck,      Mike

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tdbeltz

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Thank you CalCruiser for your diagram.  I would loved to know what program you used to make the diagram as I am currently trying do do one the hard way by hand.

Thank you Mike for your input.  I went back to my RV to try and trace where some more of the wires went and this is what I came up with.

from the 3 small wires that came from the one small post, one of the red wires went up and through the firewall into the area under the drivers side console area and I could not figure where it went after it came out from the fire wall.  the other small red wire from the same post, went to a group of wires which went into a socket that plugged into another socket and that group of wires went up and ran along a channel at the firewall, but I am not sure were it went from there.  What I found interesting was the other wires that came out of where the red wire went into went for about three inches, was all taped up and was a dead end (was not attached to anything).  I will try and post some pictures of that.  The one black wire that came from the same post as the two red wires wrapped around and up through the firewall and out to under the console area where it looks like it is attached to the White momentary switch.  Now from the fuse/breaker, the black wire that comes off the post goes up to the firewall same place the other black wire went comes out the other side and is connected to the other end of the momentary switch.  Finally the red wire coming off the fuse/breaker goes up to and through the firewall together with the other wires mentioned and out the other side.  I was unable to determine where this wire goes.  Looks like it went under the carpet on the drivers side.

So if there is anyone that can help complete where all these wires go, I would greatly appreciate it as I can then complete my diagram and have a better understanding of how all this works and how the installation of my DC to DC charger will affect this system.

Thanks again for the inputs.

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mikeh

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OK--let me take the wires directly from your post one at a time and address them that way.

"I went back to my RV to try and trace where some more of the wires went and this is what I came up with:
from the 3 small wires that came from the one small post, one of the red wires went up and through the firewall into the area under the drivers side console area and I could not figure where it went after it came out from the fire wall."  This is the wire that I said is providing a "key-on" feed from that solenoid terminal TO some other circuit that needs voltage only when the key switched on.  I'm not sure exactly what circuit that is--it would not be a OEM-Ford chassis item, but something that Phoenix installed when they built the coach.  It is feeding voltage FROM that solenoid terminal to something.

"the other small red wire from the same post, went to a group of wires which went into a socket that plugged into another socket and that group of wires went up and ran along a channel at the firewall, but I am not sure were it went from there.  What I found interesting was the other wires that came out of where the red wire went into went for about three inches, was all taped up and was a dead end (was not attached to anything).  I will try and post some pictures of that."  This particular red wire is providing the 12-volt signal to energize the solenoid when the key is switched on.  It is feeding voltage TO that small solenoid terminal from a Ford wiring plug that Ford furnishes in the wiring to provide power for needed add-on circuits.  There are two of those plugs, one is battery (full-time) 12-volts, and one is key-switched 12-volts; that particular one is the key-switched 12 volts.  For the purpose of a wiring diagram, it essentially feeds from the key switch.

The one black wire that came from the same post as the two red wires wrapped around and up through the firewall and out to under the console area where it looks like it is attached to the White momentary switch.  This black wire will feed 12-volts  from the "white switch" TO the solenoid terminal when the "white switch" is pushed.  It is how the solenoid can be energized when you turn the key on but the Ford chassis battery is too dead to do it (the white switch gets its 12-volts from the house batteries). 

Now from the fuse/breaker, the black wire that comes off the post goes up to the firewall same place the other black wire went comes out the other side and is connected to the other end of the momentary switch.  This is the 12-volt feed TO the white switch from the house batteries--that 40-amp self-resetting circuit breaker terminal is connected to the house batteries.

Finally the red wire coming off the fuse/breaker goes up to and through the firewall together with the other wires mentioned and out the other side.  I was unable to determine where this wire goes.  Looks like it went under the carpet on the drivers side.  This is the wire that goes to the positive terminal on the house batteries.  It provides the alternator charge current to the house batteries when the solenoid is energized.  Where it actually connects could vary--on my 2019, it actually goes to the positive battery terminal of my house batteries, but it could tie anywhere into the main positive circuit and work the same.  Electrically you could show it just going to the house battery positive terminal.

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CalCruiser

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The + side of  your DC-DC converter needs to be connected in series between the alternator and  house batteries. Does Victron recommend locating it under the hood? Looking at your pictures, an easy way might be to cut the heavy gauge red wire that goes from the  battery isolating relay to the 40A self resetting breaker. Then connect the relay side to IN and the breaker side  to OUT.

If  Victron didn’t include a length of black wire and a ring or U terminal for the GND connection, the instructions should specify what gauge wire to get. Chassis ground can be any unpainted bolt under the hood or on the frame, where the ground wire can’t touch the hot engine or exhaust system.
Goin' where the wind goes...

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keelhauler

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So if there is anyone that can help complete where all these wires go, I would greatly appreciate it as I can then complete my diagram and have a better understanding of how all this works

Year to year there are minor differences but this is the basic PC power schematic.



John