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Leveling jacks and weight limits?

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jdw

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Leveling jacks and weight limits?
« on: February 28, 2011, 11:33:18 am »
I'm sorry, I know I'm coming up with an awful lot of questions here... everything seems to turn into a rabbit hole into a world of strange and new things to learn about.  I really appreciate everyone's patience as I muddle along. :)

I've got the plastic lego-like blocks from camping world to level our PC.  These definitely do work.  But, it turns out, I am just that lazy.  (It's amazing how fast this scenario has developed.  "It's... not... that... bad," he gasped, struggling to climb Mount Galley.)  Part of that is because, provided I have the energy left at the end of the day to drive the RV back and forth trying to land right on the block and get the parking brake on before I roll back down, running the slide out inevitably seems to mean that the next morning, the right-left level will be much different than it was the night before.  Redo from start.

(One assumption I've made here is that lurching the coach back and forth with the slide out and the cables hooked up isn't the wisest of plans.)

Second, we notice a lot of rocking back and forth, particularly on windy days or when one of us is in the shower, or ... for other very important reasons.  We'd like to put the kibosh on that.  (I read past posts on this subject and it seems like upgraded sway bars & shocks might cut this down quite a bit, but they won't cut it out.  Also, the cost seemed a bit prohibitive for something that wouldn't solve our problem 100%.)

So, it looks like we need some sort of leveling/stabilization jacks.  Now, I'm not saying I need the kind where you tap a button and the whole thing auto-levels in seconds (though I wouldn't turn that away if I can afford it).  I'd be minimally content with any scheme that doesn't require jogging the coach back and forth to level.  The faster/less work involved, the better.

But, that leads me (tumbling down the rabbit hole) to another concern: weight.

I am not in the coach at the moment so I don't know the specific cargo numbers on my 2011 2350.  I do know that, given our plan to go for months at a time, there aren't exactly any empty drawers.  (We went with the Ford instead of the Sprinter for that reason.)  So I wonder if we have the cargo capacity left to add a leveling system and still pull a toad.

Which makes me wonder how to go about finding that out.  I'm told there are ways to get this done, something involving truck scales, but I don't know the first thing about that and I'm betting they just love dealing with idiots people who have no idea what they're doing, like me.

So, I'm left wondering what my leveling/stabilization options are, and how to find out more about the weight issue.  I do have some budget concerns as well, because I still need the toad setup which falls heavily in the "not cheap" circle.

If anyone knows what would be good options for "lazy leveling" and/or could give me a primer on "scales for dummies" I would really appreciate it.

Thanks! :)
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lghjr

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Re: Leveling jacks and weight limits?
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2011, 02:28:48 pm »
JDW,

I have a set of those blocks you speak so highly of, and I also have HRH leveling jacks which I am not overly impressed with.
One problem with them is the valves on the front jacks do not hold pressure and the repair bill estimate is upwards of "sky's the limit".
The selling dealer doesn't do HRH and for that reason really doesn't want to tackle the problem.  So it's a search for a HRH dealer/repair
place and I just haven't gotten around to it yet.
At various times the master valve (or electric control circuit) also doesn't hold pressure for all four.
At my age I don't do scurrying around under the unit for repairs much anymore, unless it falls in the "gotta have it category".
I pretty much have gone with the idea the blocks are not a half bad solution.  I just use the jacks for stability at this point and reset them when
somebody in the camp says something about them.
Another thing you mentioned is the towed and things that go with: I did the car/hitch/wiring/brakes/etc. myself and saved $7-800 hundred or so in
labor - not sure I would do that again either, it was upwards of 120° when I did mine in the garage.

L. G.
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TomHanlon

Re: Leveling jacks and weight limits?
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2011, 05:02:08 pm »
I have the HWH leveling jacks (6000 lbs) on my PC. The factory uses HWH when you have them installed when your PC is being built. What you might want to do is to call HWH and talk to them. They are very nice people to work with. They will level your PC without the need for blocks, you just sit in the drivers seat and push a couple of buttons depending on which lights are lit on the control panel. I would not own a motorhome without leveling jacks. They will stop about 90 percent of the rocking when parked. Look at this website http://www.hwhcorp.com/straightpivoting3.html Also if you ever have any problems, and we all know we will have a problem some day no matter how good the product, just call them. The guy that posted he has a problem with the valves should call them also as this is generally an easy fix that they can walk you though.

The very best modification in my humble option is to replace the standard shocks with Bilstein HD shocks (http://www.eshocks.com/) and local install. It will improve your handling and stop a lot of the rocking when parked. Remember this is a mobile home not a house built on concrete, so you will never get it to stop rocking 100 percent.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 07:10:10 am by TomHanlon »
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gradygal

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Re: Leveling jacks and weight limits?
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2011, 05:11:40 pm »
JDW
We used the local Pilot truck stop to weigh our 2551. They have a drive through scale. You park on the scale so the front wheels are on the forward scale,the rear wheels on the second. You push the talk button. They ask you for a name or number. You pull off the scale and go in to pay and pick-up the weight slip.
You don't have to get out of the coach unless you only want the weight of the coach.

George  
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lmichael

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Re: Leveling jacks and weight limits?
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2011, 05:39:59 pm »
I had leveling jacks on my previous PC and have them on my current 2350, and I wouldn't be without them.  I've never had a problem with them, and they make set-up quick and extremely easy.  To me, they were worth the cost.
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jdw

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Re: Leveling jacks and weight limits?
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2011, 07:34:19 pm »
Thanks for the feedback everybody.

I just left Camping World and they wanted $3800 to put the HWH jacks on.  That's probably going to rule that out as an option for me, as nice as that option would be.  At least for now.  I've got a tow bar and Ever Brake in the trunk right now, and I don't have the tow bar brackets yet and I'm already cringing about costs.

I did spot a set of BAL scissor jacks that were specifically labelled as both leveling and stabilization.  I'd only ever seen/heard of those being for stabilization so I thought that was interesting.  They were about $75 for a set of two.  I wonder if they would meet my needs.  I'll have to peek under and see if I can spot the frame well enough to be comfortable that I could deploy those without breaking anything.

I'd like to find a middle of the road option at maybe half the cost of the HWH but it seems like there's just not one.  :-[

I may have to give the truck scale thing a try but I won't lie it makes me a bit nervous. Unfamiliar situations tend to have that effect on me.
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Bob Mahon

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Re: Leveling jacks and weight limits?
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2011, 09:10:27 pm »
JDW,

Relax, relax, relax.

In life there are Gottas, Wantas and Nicetas (thing you've got to have, things you want to have and things that are nice to have). In my experience with motor homes, which is significant, leveling jacks fall into the last category.

In most of the sites we've been in with our 2350, turning the front wheels a bit can take a little of the off-level out of it (I've not had the need to use the leveling blocks either). But, although not a bother to us, it will rock a bit as you move around.

Generally, jacks won't stop all the movement. Heck, they didn't on my 28,000 pound Alpine having a 276-inch wheelbase. But they did allow me to reduce the occasional off-level condition to acceptable.

If you want to reduce the side to side 'rocking' a bit, use scissor jacks under the frame rails where the trailer hitch is welded. A battery operated 1/2" electric drill and socket can be used to operate the scissor jacks (5th wheels do it all the time).

We will soon be trading in our 2350 on a 2551 that has HWH jacks, which, although certainly not a deal-breaker/maker or an overly important feature to us, will be nice (but, then again, they're 'Nicetas").

Do you "Need" jacks? In my opinion, no. And I'll probably not use ours in other than extreme off-level conditions.
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jdw

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Re: Leveling jacks and weight limits?
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2011, 11:05:25 am »
Do we need an automatic leveling system that does it all for me at the convenient touch of a centrally-located button/joystick?  Absolutely not.  That's exactly what I'm trying to avoid paying for.

We what do need is a way to stabilize the coach and a way to adjust the level without moving the coach.  Other people may not need that, which is totally understandable -- I totally respect that others may have different priorities -- but for us, in our specific situation, this is what we need.

If there's really nothing between blocks (which aren't up to either task) and the HWH-style centrally-managed hydraulic jacks (which are very expensive overkill for our specific needs), then I suppose I'll have to put my thinking cap on and invent something.  I prefer not to reinvent the wheel (or the lever, or the inclined plane), but it's actually starting to feel like an interesting challenge.  :)

« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 12:22:09 pm by jdw »
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jdw

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Re: Leveling jacks and weight limits?
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2011, 12:21:03 pm »
Along that line of inquiry, would anyone with a 2350 with the factory-installed HWH system be willing to tell me as precisely as you can where the four jacks are attached to the frame? :-)
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lmichael

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Re: Leveling jacks and weight limits?
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2011, 05:24:42 pm »
The front jacks are about the middled of the oil pan, and the back jacks are just behind the fuel tank on my 2011 2350.  I'd be happy to measure to give you a more accurate location if you like.
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billy

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Re: Leveling jacks and weight limits?
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2011, 09:59:14 pm »
How many of you with slide-outs have leveling jacks.

How many of you with slide-outs do not have leveling jacks.   Are you concerned about moving the slide with no support.

I really don't know if there would be a problem, just wondering.  billy
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GoPhoenix

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Re: Leveling jacks and weight limits?
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2011, 07:13:51 am »
We have a slide and jacks.  We have had jacks on our last three motorhomes (15 years).  Wouldn’t be without them.  Pull into your campsite and your level within minutes.  Equally important, you’re stable – no rocking when moving inside or when it’s windy.  And you get a lot of the cost back anyway when you sell. Win, win, win.
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lghjr

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Re: Leveling jacks and weight limits?
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2011, 08:54:57 am »
Quote from: billy on March 02, 2011, 09:59:14 pm
How many of you with slide-outs have leveling jacks.

How many of you with slide-outs do not have leveling jacks.   Are you concerned about moving the slide with no support.

I really don't know if there would be a problem, just wondering.  billy

Since the jacks are an option, I always assumed that the engineering went into the MH and slides sans jacks, first.  I have jacks and two slides and don't see much difference with or without using the jacks, which shows pretty good weight balance to begin with.  I worked in the MH the last couple of days and don't have any other suspension parts than stock, and gotta be honest I just do not have all the side to side rolling movement that's being talked of, (jacks up, not down).  If the jacks were installed to stop side to side, in the first place, it would be 4 grand I would save, because I just don't feel it.
When working, I helped put a set of kick down jacks on a seismograph Bluebird bus conversion, and they are not an insignificant amount of weight, particularly the pump/reservoir.   We had to crib everything in-place, or use a floor jack to lift them into place, before bolting to the chassis.

Hope this helps, in the decision making, L. G.
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jdw

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Re: Leveling jacks and weight limits?
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2011, 09:36:01 am »
Quote from: lmichael on March 02, 2011, 05:24:42 pm
The front jacks are about the middled of the oil pan, and the back jacks are just behind the fuel tank on my 2011 2350.  I'd be happy to measure to give you a more accurate location if you like.

Thanks!   That should give me a good start.  I'm away from the coach for a couple of days (  :'(  ) so I'll look and see what I see when I get back to it on Saturday.  If I can't figure it out, I'll give you a holler. 

Quote from: billy on March 02, 2011, 09:59:14 pm
How many of you with slide-outs do not have leveling jacks.   Are you concerned about moving the slide with no support.

I wouldn't say I was concerned about it, but with the stock suspension, moving the slide out does make quite a difference in the right-left level.  When I do level with blocks, I have to put the driver's side up at least an inch to have it come out even after the slide is out.  I wouldn't be surprised if that did maybe speed up the need to do maintenance on the slide's moving parts, but by a small amount (5-10%?). 

I do suspect that with an upgraded suspension that probably wouldn't be (nearly as much of) an issue.

However, the same would presumably apply to running it not level: the amount of extra stress you're putting on it is probably proportional to how far off level you are.

Quote from: gophoenix on March 03, 2011, 07:13:51 am
And you get a lot of the cost back anyway when you sell.

That is a darn good point.  Thanks for making it.
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mciai2000

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Re: Leveling jacks and weight limits?
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2011, 09:15:23 pm »
JDW:

I can sympathize with you here.  With two kids, a mortgage, and never ending business expenses, the HW levelers were out of my budget too.  I use a couple of 2 x 12 oak boards that I cut off at a 45 degree angle for leveling. They are the boards that they use on lowboy trailers.  Actually they are probably a little wider than 12.  Anyway, I digress. They seem to work nicely and the MH does not go off level on me after set up, because they can take the weight.  I had those cheap a-- plastic things and as far as I am concerned you can keep them in China.  If I am staying in a spot a while I take extra boards and those old fashioned stabilizers and lock them underneath.  Total cost is about 70.

You know, most of the fairly decent campgrounds have level spots and I don't have to use the boards that often.

David

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