Replacing Shocks on 2017 E-450

Motorhome builders buy the cheapest / lowest bid. If they stated it must meet certain specs ford Chevy or whomever would have to bid accordingly. However motorhome builders are like anyone else chasing the buck and cheapest wins. Does pc care if it handles like a t*rd? I doubt it or at a min they would offer upgrades or at least do a front end alignment .  They read these forums but how many offer to do the upgrades while it’s on their line?

That is exactly the reason why I feel the Federal NTSB should mandate that every motor home must be built on a motor home chassis, not a box truck chassis.  And every motor home chassis made by Ford or whoever, must have heavy duty front & rear stabilizer bars, heavy duty steering stabilizer, and heavy duty shocks.  Because most RV frames are extended beyond the rear axle, I would even include the rear trac bar.  That way it is seamless to the RV manufacture and the final owner, us.

The wheel alignment has too much of a variable for the chassis manufacture to build into the chassis.  That falls on the motor home manufacture.  It sure seems a good idea for the NTSB require them to get each unit aligned.  The only hang-up I have about that idea is that the alignment should be done at the time the final owner is ready to leave on a trip, loaded up his way.  55 gallons of gasoline, 10 gallons of propane, 40 gallons of fresh water, bottled water & beverages, kitchen ware, grill, chairs, food, gear, personal stuff, and even people.  When I had our wheel alignment done, I went as far a placing my exercise weights and tow bar hardware behind the two front seats to represent Irene and me.  My alignment company (Champion Frame Align) instructed me to bring the rig to them loaded ready to go, for a best alignment outcome.

Ron, your spot on with the wheel alignment and at delivery would show customer relations are important. I believe after talking to the truck front end expert out here just filling fuel, water and a waste tank is plenty. I do see the higher end motor homes like the 200,000+ pushers and super C all seem to have superior suspensions and road ready but then that’s waaaaay out of my league. I’ll always be at the so called budget end.

I’ll always be at the so called budget end.

Me too.

We try our best NOT to live penny-wise / dollar-foolish.  But we do have our limitations.  We splurged big-time buying our PC back in 2007.  That is why you will find many of my tips-&-tricks articles, doing cost conscious improvements.

Had I known back in 2007 what I know today, I would have tackled much of the suspension upgrades on my own and save 50%.

One thing we will never have the luxury.  That is replacing our PC.  This one has to outlast us, and we will be 60 in 2018.

I hear you, I do the same, have to, being retired.  Some friends of ours just bought a 34 ft 5th wheeler at 90 + tax etc grand. He said he scored a great deal and I hope he did but damn it didn’t even come with a generator. Of course it did come with the all important fire place and washer dryer. God bless them that they have the cash to buy what ever fits there fancy. I feel blessed I could buy a used unit and a afford to travel some. 50 years from now when I’m 120+ years old I won’t care so much. 😳

Quote from: Joseph on November 19, 2017, 10:25:11 am

Ron, I don’t feel it’s fords fault if the shocks are too light for whatever an aftermarket company loads on top of its frame. Only the person buying the the cut away knows what loads being added. It’s not just rv companies that buy cut always.

Hi Joseph,

We won't be seeing eye to eye on this one.  RV manufactures all buy the "RV Package" version of cut-away chassis.  It is a matter of fact that every RV Package sold will become a motor home.  I feel every RV package chassis should be equipped with the right parts to handle the projected full-time load safely.

There are cut-away packages offered for box truck rentals and such where there is often no load, a partial load, at-load, an uneven load, and sometimes an over-load.  It surely wouldn't hurt to have the same upgrades for them, but we are not discussing box trucks here.  We are discussing extended & stretched frames, a variety of shapes and sizes, poor weight distributions, max-load chassis conditions that the RV industry is all about.

Is it Ford's fault?  Maybe it would be better stated that the Feds (the NTSB) needs to reevaluate the requirements for all cut-away chassis being supplied specifically to the RV industry.

Cutaways are "incomplete vehicles"  and as such, many of the standards do not apply.  GVWR is a standard that must be certified and is based on (among ither things) axles, tires and suspension.  GCWR is mainly based on tires and brakes.

I honestly don't know what kinds of tests or documentation are required (for the Feds) by vehicle completers such as Phoenix.

We are about to order a 2018 2552 (90% sure that is what we want). Anyway, we are factoring in the upgraded suspension as an upfront expense.  We just spoke to Earl and he insists that the newer units don’t need it but if the op felt the need to upgrade I guess we will too.  Is there a place near the factory that can do the work?  We will spend a couple of days in the area checking that everything works and can prearrange the work after pickup.  To be clear, this is what we need to add/change out:  shock absorbers (Koni FSB or whatever they are called), Roadmaster heavy duty front and rear sway bars, Steer Safe steering stabilizer (PC will install), and maybe air bags for the back.  Do I have it right?  You folks know your stuff and my husband (awaiting approval) will surely want to pick your brains once he is on.  PC is closed, starting tomorrow, until Jan. 8.  We should be primed and ready to start the year off right!

Madonna

P.s.  Ron, in a previous post you said you bought a chair for your living area. Did you get it in Elkhart?  It seemed nicer than the $1k lounge they offer.  It didn’t recline did it?

While I respect everyone's opinion and besides that I'm no expert on suspension I do not believe there is any reason to upgrade the E-450 suspension on current models.  Especially without having driven it to see if it is an issue for you.  I respect Earl's experience in this area, he sells a lot of E-450 trucks over the year and I doubt 1% of those sales get upgraded suspension right off the bat.

That said, I added a Safe-T-Plus steering stabilizer at Earl's suggestion and had the rig aligned after it was fully loaded up.  Those improvements did make a difference, especially the alignment.  But other than that I have no issue driving mine in cross winds on the interstate.

So before you jump in and spend a bunch of money, try driving it a month to see if you really need to spend it.

I asked Phoenix to have our 2552 aligned before picking it up which they did.  They also provided me with the alignment data.  The downside to having them do it at that time was not having the unit loaded as we typically would for extended camping trips.  I have seen several references to have the caster set to +5 degrees  which as I recall our caster was about +3.5 degrees.  No doubt more caster makes the unit travel straighter with less input from the driver which on straight roads would be less tiring to drive.  Having the 5 degrees of  caster may be something you want to explore further.

Other than the alignment we did not have anything done to the suspension.  I found after a few miles of driving to get use to driving a larger vehicle that it handled reasonably well.  I have never experienced any signicant push/pull when passing or being passed by tractor and trailers or large class A motorhome.  While handling is influenced by a number of factors I believe weight distribution, center of gravity, and aerodynamic force magnitude and location relative to the wheel locations play a major roll in how well the vehicle handles.  Other than comments made by other users I theorize the geometry and weight distribution of a 2552 is not as prone to handling issues as some other models particularly the shorter models.  

While our PC doesn’t drive like a sports car I have never felt uncomfortable driving it.  On good roads it rides reasonably well but on badly segmented or pot hole roads the heavy duty suspension is somewhat jolting and noisy.  I agree with Jatrax you may want to minimize the upfront modifications other than a proper alignment and assess what if any modifications are required.  I don’t have any regrets of ordering ours stock.

I have to agree with Jatrax. I have had two Born Free units that rode like buckboards that I spent big $ trying to get to ride smoother. Had More-Ryde installed on one of them.Our 2351 wasn't bad but I did put Koni FSB shocks on it. Our new extended 2552, after a local front end alignment, needs nothing. Earl is correct. It needs nothing (IMHO)

As the years pass, I have learned much about this.  I think I understand this better now.  Models 2100, 2350, 2400, and possibly 2351 on the E350 chassis are the PCs that benefit most from the suspension upgrades mentioned in the past.  Models 2551 and longer do okay just as they are from the factory.  I don't believe the E350 itself is the culprit, but rather the short wheel base with an extended rear over-hang that is dimensioned closer to the wheel base, also referred to as the ratio between over-all length and wheel base.  A motor home with a large portion of the house hanging out behind the rear axle tends to fling the rear around on the short wheel based vehicle which requires more steering compensation.  Building short models on the E450 helps that condition, but the suspension upgrades on the E350 address the problem most effectively along with benefiting from a softer ride.

The short models built on a 2007 E350 and older, are most vulnerable because Ford did not install any kind of rear stabilizer bar until 2008.  The rear end thrashes around so badly because it lacks that bar.  That was our experience with our 2007 E350 2350.  Doing all the suspension upgrades I always talk about might have been over-kill, but the rig is very steady because of it.  The upgrades had minimal impact to the softness of ride.  It remains relatively soft which is easy on the motor home, it's contents, and the people riding inside.  It is also steady when parked with no need to stabilize the rig with jacks.

You with longer PCs built on the E450, your rigs are better proportioned and properly weighted for the E450.  Having a long wheel base, you are okay just as you are with the E450.  You too would benefit from suspension upgrades, but they will be less beneficial.  How good is good enough?

I knew we could count on you experts for the straight scoop.  I’ve driven new old, and totally worn out RVs so have seen the worst and the best. From your advice and Earl’s suggestion we will go with the steering stabilizer initially and get the alignment once home then see what we need. Thanks so much!

I've owned a 2551 on an E-350 and now a 2552 on a E-450 Ford chassis.
Other than alignment, they both drove fine.

Little Known fact - After you get it loaded up, Call your authorized Ford truck dealer and believe it or not, as part of their warranty, if out of specs, they will align for FREE.

Little Known fact - After you get it loaded up, Call your authorized Ford truck dealer and believe it or not, as part of their warranty, if out of specs, they will align for FREE.

Wish I had known that, thanks for posting it.

We had our rig aligned at the factory, but of course that is essentially unloaded.  When we got home I took it to a local tire shop and had them look at it again. 
According to their report:
Caster: 6.0 left and 6.3 right.  Which is just about what is recommended on the internet where various 'experts' say to set caster at 5.0 to 5.5.  I asked the alignment guy at the shop and he said if he was doing an E-450 RV he would set it between 5.5 and 6.5.
Camber: .03 left and .01 right.  They made no change.
Toe: .35 left and .22 right.  The alignment guy made a fuss over this and set it: .03 left and .03 right.  He said the rig would have been difficult to drive set the way it was.

The rig was noticeably better handling after this alignment.  Whether it was set wrong in Elkhart, knocked out of whack on the trip home or set correctly but the added weight changed things I have no idea.  I do know that the $72 they charged me for the alignment was money well spent.  And if Ford will do it under warranty, even better.

PS.  I originally took our rig to the Ford dealer in town because the serpentine belt was squealing.  They replaced it under warranty which fixed that.  I asked them to have it aligned while it was in the shop but they told me they could not do it as the wheelbase was too long for their rack.  So I took it across the street to Les Schwab who said "no problem".