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Compression refridgerator ventilation

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4X4Diversion

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Compression refridgerator ventilation
« on: December 14, 2016, 09:27:51 pm »
I picked up my new 4x4 2351 on December 1st and drove it across country back to western Wyoming.
In general I am very happy with my new RV -- it looks and performs great.
There are a few issues -- the first of which I will discuss in this topic thread.
On a cold and windy night -- parked for the night at a Pilot truck stop in Nebraska, I noticed cold air pouring thru the vents of my compressor based refrigerator. Thinking about this one night after I got home -- the reason for this occurred to me. When PC installs the normal absorption fridge they provide vents on the outside wall of the RV to allow fresh air intake and exhausting of propane fumes. The compressor fridge being all electric has its vents built into the fridge unit itself and are on the inside. So I now have external vents and internal vents that share the common airspace surrounding the fridge allowing outside air to freely flow to the inside of my PC.
To fix this I think I somehow need to seal off the outside vents since I do not think they are needed for my 'all electric' fridge which has inside vents (above and below the fridge doors)
Any thoughts on how to do this?
Anyone else considering a compressor fridge needs to have a conversation with the guys at PC about this.








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donc13

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Re: Compression refridgerator ventilation
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2016, 09:42:30 pm »
I picked up my new 4x4 2351 on December 1st and drove it across country back to western Wyoming.
In general I am very happy with my new RV -- it looks and performs great.
There are a few issues -- the first of which I will discuss in this topic thread.
On a cold and windy night -- parked for the night at a Pilot truck stop in Nebraska, I noticed cold air pouring thru the vents of my compressor based refrigerator. Thinking about this one night after I got home -- the reason for this occurred to me. When PC installs the normal absorption fridge they provide vents on the outside wall of the RV to allow fresh air intake and exhausting of propane fumes. The compressor fridge being all electric has its vents built into the fridge unit itself and are on the inside. So I now have external vents and internal vents that share the common airspace surrounding the fridge allowing outside air to freely flow to the inside of my PC.
To fix this I think I somehow need to seal off the outside vents since I do not think they are needed for my 'all electric' fridge which has inside vents (above and below the fridge doors)
Any thoughts on how to do this?
Anyone else considering a compressor fridge needs to have a conversation with the guys at PC about this.









Talk to Kermit.   If your refrigerator was factory installed and doesn't need the outside vents, then I *SUSPECT* you are due a new sidewall.

At the very least... a seal around the back of the refrigerator or the vent openings  100% sealed and insulated with equivalent to sidewall material.

---
Don and Patti

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randallandchris

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Re: Compression refridgerator ventilation
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2016, 08:59:53 am »
PC tends to add options at the end of the build process as described to me when I mentioned our bath window valence and shades fell down.  Seems they installed the valence then later removed it to build a cabinet above we special ordered then reinstalled, just not as well.  Yours may have had an absorption fridge as originally built.  Or maybe they wanted to provide the option of switching to one later.

Please share how you supply sufficient electricity for the residential type fridge. Thanks.

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4X4Diversion

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Re: Compression refridgerator ventilation
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2016, 12:54:24 am »
RandallandChris

Actually the Norcold DE-0061 compressor fridge that I have only draws 3.2 amps at 12v -- and it only draws this when the compressor is running. Given my two 105 amp/hr batteries and assuming that I limit discharge to 50% -- I have an 105 amp/hour power budget. Assuming I charge everyday the fridge should consume less than half my budget (I estimate around 40 amp/hr per day). I eventually plan to add solar panels and lithium ion batteries to make this situation better. And I often will have hookups so power not an issue then.

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Michelle Dungan

Re: Compression refridgerator ventilation
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2016, 01:05:04 pm »
I'm not sure I'd want a new sidewall in this situation; rather, I'd seal the backside (the side facing inside, towards refer, where you won't see it) of the exterior vents with something that would last indefinetely for you but be removable by the next owner in case they for some reason wanted an absorption refer installed.  This option would be easy if all gas and electric needed was already in place.  I don't know what the backside of PC refer vents look like, but if anything like the lower metal louvered hinged door on my father's '97 Roadtrek 170, it shouldn't be too difficult to remove it and fashion a lightweight sheetmetal cover using tinsnips to cut something you could then bend into a cover that would look like a metal cookie sheet.  Silicone caulk would seal gaps and adhere the sheetmetal to the backside of the louvered door.  Additional weather stripping would seal the door itself tighter than before.

Of course, if PC vents are different your design will vary.

I'd probably go the above route rather than risk leaks or worse after replacing an otherwise perfectly good sidewall, with all the work that would entail.

Another thought: I've often wondered why one couldn't have a damper that gave a compression refer user the choice between inside and outside ventilation, based on whichever was cooler.  No point in running your heater in winter, and then using more energy for heat exchange going the other direction to chill a small box for food when cool air is right outside.  You might have that option, now, but the design of it is beyond me, without actually seeing it.  Hmmmm....
« Last Edit: December 16, 2016, 07:04:48 pm by Michelle Dungan »

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Michelle Dungan

Re: Compression refridgerator ventilation
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2016, 12:07:23 am »
Addendum: Of course, I'd want PC to cover the cost of anything done by a reputable shop, or take it back to them if nearby.

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4X4Diversion

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Re: Compression refridgerator ventilation
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2016, 01:07:53 pm »
Michelle,

Your posts got me to thinking and I went out and looked at my PC -- quickly realized that the outside fridge vents are contained in panels and these panels are easily removed -- just turn two attach latches and they come right out.
So once the weather warms up my plan is to glue some block foam insulation which I have left over from another project to the backside of these panels to block the air flow and provide some insulation at the same time.
Thanks for your input.

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jatrax

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Re: Compression refridgerator ventilation
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2016, 06:21:06 pm »
One thing to consider if you are going to glue insulation on the vents is that in summer you might actually want the vents to work to exhaust the compressor heat to the outside.  If the panels are removable then perhaps using velcro or some other attachment system might be better than glue.

I have the Norcold DE-0061 ordered for my rig, I think you must be the pioneer on this :).  I wanted a Novacool marine model that seems to get better ratings than the Norcold but Kermit said they were familiar with the Norcold from another rig and would use that.  So that's what I get.

When planning things out I considered that I would need to block those vents in winter.  I've no plan yet since the rig is a long way from ready but I think I will fashion something that can be removed.  Do let us know what you do as it might help me when I get mine.

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Michelle Dungan

Re: Compression refridgerator ventilation
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2016, 12:41:34 pm »
Jatrax, you might be on to something, there, with velcroed temp vent blockage on outside vents rather than my damper idea.  Velcroed front blockage for use when the back vent is open could work, but I suspect it might not be that simple, with fan-forced air intake or exhaust not to be blocked without designed paths for air diversion.  The big question I'd have re. any of this air diversion is where is the air sitting or pooling before it goes to or from either inside or outside.  Too much mixing of the same stagnant pool of air around all sides of the typical big gaps between a refer and the space it is mounted cuts efficiency.  As I mentioned in a previous post, we had an authorized Dometic service shop add insulation on top and sides, and add an air diversion baffle to rear, on a replacement absorption unit in a Roadtrek that would have benefitted from the same work on the original refer, also.  The tech doing the work said most makes and models of all classes of RVs have their refers installed into areas that are too big (zero clearance on most sides is a typical spec) and ventilation is an afterthought.  On these PCs, I'd review the refer installation instructions (those always ship with the manual on a Dometic absorption but I don't know about others), see what things actually look like in there, and contact PC before going to a refer factory-authorized service center for their recommendations.  Blocking rear vents permanently or temporarily on these compressor refers may or may not be the only thing that needs to be done.

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jatrax

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Re: Compression refridgerator ventilation
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2016, 01:50:30 pm »
I agree it is likely more complicated than it seems.  I'll have to take a good look once I get the rig and see what (if anything) needs to be done.  PC has lots of experience with absorption refrigerators but I do not know how many compressor units they have installed.  Or if they is a need for anything different on the install.

I have past experience with commercial refrigeration and the key to efficiency is keeping the units clean and providing a good flow of air.

I have a copy of the DE-0061 install instructions, I will take a look at those after work tonight.